67' Boat Sinks in Straights of San Juan De Fuca

[caltexflanc]

2nd UPDATE: Two people rescued by Coast Guard as yacht sinks near Dungeness Spit [**Gallery**] -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily NEWS

Anyone have more info?

 

[THD]

I saw a brief note in the Seattle paper this morning, did not even have that much detail. Did not mention that it was Jud's boat. I know him and am sorry to hear about this.

 

[dannc]

Horrible photos showing the boat sinking. At least everyone got off the boat ok.

Later,
Dan

 

[Tad Roberts]

Appears to be one of the Monk designs built by McQueen's.

 

[Marin]

I saw this on the news last night after getting back from Malaysia. As usual, the TV news only reported the basic incident. It was not until reading the link above that I learned it is a wooden boat.

There have been a few wooden fishboats in our marina that have sunk over the years (in their slips) from a plank letting go. That and a failed through-hull, seacock, or hose seem to me to be about the only non-collision things that can cause a boat to fill and sink in very short period of time. I wonder if the folks on the boat even knew what caused the water ingress?

 

[Conrad]

Appears to be one of the Monk designs built by McQueen's.

That was my thought as well. Too bad.

 

[mbevins]

The caption read "taking on water" . The picture shows only her cabin top exposed. I think she was officially sunk by this point. On another note, I always love the comments from the uninformed in the online news articles.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Trawler

 

[Scary]

Fasteners and wooden boats

One of the hull failures that are beginning become more common is fastener failure. All of these wood boats are getting long in the tooth. Fasteners should be replaced every twenty years or so. At least checked. The planking and frames get brittle with age. Dry rot along the chine, keel and gunnel. In my humble opinion when you take an older wooden boat out into open water where the hull will flex and twist your asking for trouble.

 

[Delfin]

One of the hull failures that are beginning become more common is fastener failure. All of these wood boats are getting long in the tooth. Fasteners should be replaced every twenty years or so. At least checked. The planking and frames get brittle with age. Dry rot along the chine, keel and gunnel. In my humble opinion when you take an older wooden boat out into open water where the hull will flex and twist your asking for trouble.

Is that true of all fastening methods? Would clinch nailed with copper be a concern?

 

[OFB]

Fasteners are just a piece of a very large puzzle.

Design, materials, method of construction, intend use play a much larger roll than just fasteners

Light builds like a Crispy Craft are different than say a heavy commercial build that ends in a much stiffer boat. As an example.

You can not paint any boat, hull designs, or hull material with the same brush so to speak

 

[Scary]

This very true

Fasteners are just a piece of a very large puzzle.

Design, materials, method of construction, intend use play a much larger roll than just fasteners

Light builds like a Crispy Craft are different than say a heavy commercial build that ends in a much stiffer boat. As an example.

You can not paint any boat, hull designs, or hull material with the same brush so to speak

Some old wooden fish boats that are 70 years old are still working. Have you ever see a wooden work boat in use that wasn't being worked on. Most wooden yachts sit at the dock look good and deteriorate structurally under cover. Seem like there was another large wooden yacht about 5 years ago that sunk just inside the Straights between Neah Bay and Victoria on a delivery from LA to Vancouver, Planks loosened up on it and it took on water and sank.

 

[BandB]

There was an update that it was being towed to John Wayne Marina by Vessel Assist.

 

[psneeld]

If you are curious about wood boats and things that can go wrong with them....read enough and eventually the USCG and NTSB discuss many aspects of wooden boat construction.

There is a tragic story nameed the "Sinking of the El Toro II". It was a party fishing boat in the Cheasapeake that was a story unto itself with USCG surveys and envestigations...and why it killed people and why it's a landmark event in the USCG reviewing it's policies on wooden boats that carry passengers.

here's one link...Pascoe seems to be pretty interested as he has linked a bunch to his site...whie I may or may not agree with his comments...the quotes from the USCG and tidbits of facts such a the weather and all are accurate as much as I have read...

https://search.yahoo.com/search?p=el+toro+ii+sinking&ei=UTF-8&fr=chrf-yff32

Lot's of stuff when "El Torro II sinking" is googled if you don't want to wade through his site.

I was part of the lawsuit against the USCG till I flew a few some VIPs to the site and explained the "opertional USCG's" part in the rescue.....soon after USCG Air Station Cape My didn't seem to be part of the lawsuit anymore...

 

[OFB]

Scary

Yup that be kind of my point. You can not simply state that a wood boat needs to be refastened after say 20 years. That's not a complete picture in any way shape or form. Old boats are old boats with a host of items and usually issues that should be looked at.

Hull material is just part of that picture.

Like most marine accidents there is rarely one issue as to cause. Combination yup.

Theses boats I am very familiar with. Each different in materials , construction, maintenance , life , etc etc.

The sinking packer had transport Canada certification, had not been refastened in it's life and was built in the 20's ( galvanized screws ). IMO fasteners did not bring her down, the owner did , from lack of experience in a maritime way.

The Grenfell needed new fasteners , that she received. original copper above and bronze below water line.

The old Sizuki < spl > gillnet was very much done in a sea way. Not rotten but way past any point in doing "fasteners". She had power removed , tanks removed, and is still a cottage on the water. Dock side its OK any other she will just fall apart.

The old Kishi boat is another example of a different construction technique.

Yup they are all wood.

 

[Ski in NC]

Boat recovered and in port. Apparently it broke ribs.

Yacht that sank, then refloated missing its superstructure -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily NEWS

 

[denloe1]

I fought the wooden boat battle for 20 years on my old 50s Chris double cabin. First was 3 big bilge pumps just in case. 2nd at 1st scheduled haul out I mapped all the thru hulls. Doing that I found a rotten sanitary overboard hose on one that fell off when touched. Kept those tapered plugs ready. Repowered and replaced gas with big yanmar diesels. Got rid of mufflers that fell apart when hammer tapped. New fuel tanks too. And re fastened for the repower. The wood hull was way stronger than bayliner 4788 we docked beside one time. My fenders flexed in his hull. So imho...the risk comes from the very old hoses and systems as much as from the planks. I had no rot to which I think salt and fresh use both plus mooring in a boathouse helped with. Lastly I think 50+ year old wood boats are for bays lakes and rivers now having seen what the heavy seas can do on working planks on re fastened boat. Glad to have a GB46
now

 

[dhmeissner]

"Bart Buntin, captain of the Timber Wolf, a Vessel Assist boat from Port Hadlock and a master diver, said the boat had a failure of 27 ribs, three planks wide, while underway Friday."

Maybe she hit something? A whale?

 

[psneeld]

Or many, most or all were broken all along...

 

[OFB]

Or many, most or all were broken all along...

Cracked probably, then add in some fastener's beside existing and loaded incorrectly onto a travel lift.

The travel lift can be the demise of a lot of old wood boats IMO. The old girls like a keel lift, on there back so ta speak.

I just doubt its one issue, more likely a combination of several factors over a very long period of time.

Random thoughts.

 

[Marin]

Boat recovered and in port. Apparently it broke ribs.

Yacht that sank, then refloated missing its superstructure -- Port Angeles Port Townsend Sequim Forks Jefferson County Clallam County Olympic Peninsula Daily NEWS

Thanks for posting that link. Had any of the rerports, news or otherwise, reported on the water conditions in the Strait at the time? Was the hull taking something of a beating from the waves or the stresses from rolling and pitching?

The photo in the link in the first post of this thread shows the water to be somewhat lumpy with swells and a few small whitecaps....

 

[hollywood8118]

Thanks for posting that link. Had any of the rerports, news or otherwise, reported on the water conditions in the Strait at the time? Was the hull taking something of a beating from the waves or the stresses from rolling and pitching?

The photo in the link in the first post of this thread shows the water to be somewhat lumpy with swells and a few small whitecaps....

We had a lot of wind Thursday and Friday from the South that may have been a contributing factor
Hollywood

 

[Northern Spy]

Picture 5 of 6 in the first article shows some pretty nasty seas.

 

[Scary]

This pretty much bears out my point

I have nothing against wood boats, I make a living working on them. My point being that most wood boats are getting pretty old. At least 60 years old. Galvanized iron fasteners destroy the wood they contact over time, especially oak. Bronze fasteners become brittle copper sponges. Copper rivets aren't used much in carvel planked boats. Ribs crack, they get brittle over time and steam bending weakens the wood and makes it brittle. Hard chin boats have lots of places to collect dirt and sawdust, that when allowed to remain wet become dry rot incubators. When these boats get on in age they are nowhere near as strong and flexable as they were new. If you haul a wood boat with a travel lift we double up the straps because they deform so badly. When we put the jacks under them we have to sight the chines and keel to keep the hull lines true. They really need to be hauled on a marine railway. I agree just like any old boat there are many things that can cause sinking as all hoses and exhaust systems thru hulls, shaft logs and rudder stuffing boxes could fail. Most of these items can be see, planking , ribs, rot and fasteners aren't as obvious.

 

[hollywood8118]

I have nothing against wood boats, I make a living working on them. My point being that most wood boats are getting pretty old. At least 60 years old. Galvanized iron fasteners destroy the wood they contact over time, especially oak. Bronze fasteners become brittle copper sponges. Copper rivets aren't used much in carvel planked boats. Ribs crack, they get brittle over time and steam bending weakens the wood and makes it brittle. Hard chin boats have lots of places to collect dirt and sawdust, that when allowed to remain wet become dry rot incubators. When these boats get on in age they are nowhere near as strong and flexable as they were new. If you haul a wood boat with a travel lift we double up the straps because they deform so badly. When we put the jacks under them we have to sight the chines and keel to keep the hull lines true. They really need to be hauled on a marine railway. I agree just like any old boat there are many things that can cause sinking as all hoses and exhaust systems thru hulls, shaft logs and rudder stuffing boxes could fail. Most of these items can be see, planking , ribs, rot and fasteners aren't as obvious.

And yet there are a dozen 50'-100'+ commercial wood boats in our yard here at most times..and these are Alaska boats that spend their lives in the worst conditions possible.
You couldnt give me a wood boat over 25'.. I can't stand the way they smell.
The only old wood boat I have ever been on that didn't stink was Neil Young's old schooner..but a ton of money was spent on it to keep it that way. I spent a few days snd nights aboard and when I got home I noticed my clothes didn't have "boat stink"..those that have been on a stinky boat know what I mean.
As far as the weather when this boat sank, it was gusting that morning into the low 30's but I would ot thought had she been in good condition it should have been no issue.
Hollywood

 

[sunchaser]

I see this vessel's near twin the Monk McQueen "Snowqueen" is for sale for $600K in Anacortes. It is a 42 year old vessel.