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Old 10-31-2012, 11:21 PM   #61
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Especially since it's totally FALSE! The Captain he been the skipper of the Bounty for 20 years.
if you look at historical records many vessels were ordered out to sea in unfavorable conditions by their owners throughout history.

I have no doubt that the bounty's skipper did everything in his power to save his ship at the cost of his life just as so many other vessels did because of being ordered to sea by their owners in the past. My comment was not one of disrespect for anyone just a statement pointing out whaat traditionally has been done historically.
If i owned the Bounty i certainly would not have ordered her to the bahamas at that time wouyld you? Would any of you put to sea under those conditions? I think not. Two weeks ago i was caught offshore when the bar was closed and know how easy it is for a skipper to mis judge conditions. I'll bet there isnt a one of you that has any real experiance that hasnt at some time or other and close to visiting davy jones. Thats the nature of the sport
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Old 11-01-2012, 02:49 AM   #62
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" There are old sailors,and there are bold sailors, but there are no old bold sailors"
OK, I know it`s a generalization, and I don`t know how old Daddyo is (does TF have a Courage award?), but it`s broadly true,and totally unoriginal.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:33 AM   #63
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Bfloyd

"visit day jones" you say? If by chance or unforeseen accident I'd maybe buy that, but to intentionally put your vessel and crew in harms way is no accident.

Has an owner come forth saying " I ordered the Bounty put out to sea?" Even if this were to come to light, the Captain has the final say.
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:40 AM   #64
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Bfloyd

"visit day jones" you say? If by chance or unforeseen accident I'd maybe buy that, but to intentionally put your vessel and crew in harms way is no accident.

Has an owner come forth saying " I ordered the Bounty put out to sea?" Even if this were to come to light, the Captain has the final say.
I do not believe the Captain had any intention nor is there any indication he had any wish that his ship do anything but reach its destination safely. If he had of he would not have died.

I dont think the Bounty left port without its owner ordering it to do so do you? Has your boat ever left port without its owner demanding it do so?...or any other vessel for that matter
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Old 11-01-2012, 11:45 AM   #65
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Bfloyd

"visit day jones" you say? If by chance or unforeseen accident I'd maybe buy that, but to intentionally put your vessel and crew in harms way is no accident.

Has an owner come forth saying " I ordered the Bounty put out to sea?" Even if this were to come to light, the Captain has the final say.
The captain does have the final say and in the past many have refused to sail under dangerous conditions with the owner often replaceing them with others willoing to take the risk in order to accomplish the owners goal what ever they may be.

The loss of the Bounty distresses me very much and the hours i have spent mouning her loss made me think of many things. Was a terri8ble terrible incident

Best wishes
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Old 11-01-2012, 05:35 PM   #66
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Hummm.....ive been to sea in a rowboat, jetboat <wooldridge Alaskan> with prop and even in a bayliner. Does that mean i should throw away both the clock and the calender?
Yes Sir, it does!...especially if there's a hurricane brewing, as the unfortunate crew of HMS Bounty discovered. In more than 35 years as a Merchant Marine Master I ran into quite a few owners/managers who tried to bully me into putting to sea when circumstances of weather, or vessel condition dictated otherwise. If you say "no," you may well loose your job. But if you say "yes," you may loose your life.
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Old 11-01-2012, 09:05 PM   #67
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Yes Sir, it does!...especially if there's a hurricane brewing, as the unfortunate crew of HMS Bounty discovered. In more than 35 years as a Merchant Marine Master I ran into quite a few owners/managers who tried to bully me into putting to sea when circumstances of weather, or vessel condition dictated otherwise. If you say "no," you may well loose your job. But if you say "yes," you may loose your life.
Thank you for pointing this out. Us pleasure boaters tend to think of the water as a play ground with little thought to the true power of the sea and whom is really the Master.

a few years back down in southern california a small flat water go fast craft with a super charged blown engine and three people went missing. This is one of those boats with what they call weepers to cool the exhaust which drip water into the bilge with maybe ten inches of freeboard. After a couple of days it was thought they had went down and were presumed dead but on the third day they were found alive anbd well. They had no safety gear no radio and when the engine quit they just drifted untill almost run over by another craft. Talk about lucky. that boat was so low to the water it was almost impossible to see. Heard about thgis on the radio

All to often after carefully weighing the circumstances a captain may decide to put to sea as ordered anyway and then encounter conditions beyond his and his ships ability to overcome with dire consequences as apparently happened in the Bounty's case.
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Old 11-01-2012, 10:13 PM   #68
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I have no doubt that the bounty's skipper did everything in his power to save his ship at the cost of his life just as so many other vessels did because of being ordered to sea by their owners in the past. Would any of you put to sea under those conditions? I think not. Two weeks ago i was caught offshore when the bar was closed and know how easy it is for a skipper to misjudge conditions.
--------------------------------------
Sometimes we underestimate conditions, in favor of completing a job, making an appointment on time or doing something we really want to accomplish. Why do people go out when there are ice and blizzard conditions? We're all guilty of taking unnecessary chances from time-to-time. Sometimes it catches up to you and it may have dire consequences.

Sandy was 800 miles wide and he was on a slow boat to China trying to skirt it. In 20-20 hindsight, he grossly underestimated the capability of his boat and the effect of the storm. He isn't the first and won't be the last skipper to do so. Unfortunate and preventable.

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Old 11-01-2012, 10:20 PM   #69
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Newbie68 wrote:

"I ask again....what possessed then to depart."

It is best expressed by a Greek word. Hubris. Or, "It cannot happen to me." A really good example of that can be found at the following link:

The loss of the Windjammer Schooner, Fantome

John
Thank you John

That article on the Fantome’s demise sent shivers up my spine. There is no man made product nor human thought or power that can overcome the whims of nature which without conscience employ the laws of physics.


"MONDAY, NOV. 2 A SENSE OF FINALITY

On the fifth day of an intense search, the crew of a Monty 45 helicopter, dispatched from the British frigate HMS Sheffield, spotted debris in the water near eastern Guanaja, off Honduras: eight life vests, two life rafts. Stenciled on them: SV/Fantome.

Now Fantome truly was a ghost ship."


</B>Copyright © 1998 The Miami Herald

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Old 11-02-2012, 07:30 AM   #70
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And by the way, since I have not seen a mention of it by anyone else, I'll just put in my two cents and say what a great job the Coast Guard did in rescuing those 14 crew members. Flying choppers and deploying baskets in that sort of weather has to call for skill and dedication that I, for one, applaud about as hard as I can applaud. As they say, "You have to go out. No one says you have to make it back."

John
Nahhhh....we changed that back in the late 80's early 90's when more Coastie helo crews were dying and the people who they were sent to rescue made it back fine...just more scared than they wanted to be...

The new motto for the air crews is..."You have to go out ...but you have to come back" I firmly believed in and loved the new motto!
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Old 11-02-2012, 08:47 AM   #71
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Originally Posted by jwnall
And by the way, since I have not seen a mention of it by anyone else, I'll just put in my two cents and say what a great job the Coast Guard did in rescuing those 14 crew members. Flying choppers and deploying baskets in that sort of weather has to call for skill and dedication that I, for one, applaud about as hard as I can applaud. As they say, "You have to go out. No one says you have to make it back."

John [/QUOTE]


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Nahhhh....we changed that back in the late 80's early 90's when more Coastie helo crews were dying and the people who they were sent to rescue made it back fine...just more scared than they wanted to be...

The new motto for the air crews is..."You have to go out ...but you have to come back" I firmly believed in and loved the new motto!
Bless the rescue crews... Jobs they do are great indeed! New motto is much better, old one had sour ring to it. These rescuers had better come back... of course for their own good and simply because they damn well deserve to... but also and importantly because there is always someone going to need their help again. Talk about a noble profession! Unwavering life saving dedication while risking their own life and limb for others - GEEEEEZZZZZ!
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:08 AM   #72
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I have no doubt that the bounty's skipper did everything in his power to save his ship at the cost of his life
You may be the last person standing who has no doubt ... it has become increasingly obvious he willingly exposed his ship and crew to their fate.


http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ing-hurricanes
Pay particular attention to the statements made starting at 10:27 on the clip, and again at around 20:50
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Old 11-02-2012, 09:26 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by jwnall
And by the way, since I have not seen a mention of it by anyone else, I'll just put in my two cents and say what a great job the Coast Guard did in rescuing those 14 crew members. Flying choppers and deploying baskets in that sort of weather has to call for skill and dedication that I, for one, applaud about as hard as I can applaud. As they say, "You have to go out. No one says you have to make it back."

John


Bless the rescue crews... Jobs they do are great indeed! New motto is much better, old one had sour ring to it. These rescuers had better come back... of course for their own good and simply because they damn well deserve to... but also and importantly because there is always someone going to need their help again. Talk about a noble profession! Unwavering life saving dedication while risking their own life and limb for others - GEEEEEZZZZZ! [/QUOTE]

I still carry the picture of the crumpled USCG helo on the mountainside near Humbolt Bay California and the sailboat they went out to rescue sitting idyllically at anchor in the foreground without a scratch.

Keeps you humble and your head screwed on tight when things get dicey.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:12 AM   #74
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Adagio made it thru Sandy! Toms River and the Jersey shore took a beating.

Water 5' over my dock. Marina office and Condos first floors flooded.

A few miles East on the Ocean Front much is destroyed!

Our Marina did fairly well, No damage on most boats, One near sinking, it got caught under the dock.

Not sure when power will be restored. Still 7 hundred thousand people without in my area, including us. Getting by on my old Honda 2000.

Thankfully the people I know are okay.

Thinking of moving to Arizona. John and Miri.
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Old 11-02-2012, 10:14 AM   #75
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Photo on Tuesday at low water. Water crested 4' higher.

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Old 11-02-2012, 11:03 AM   #76
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Greetings,
Hmmm......the evidence from the captains own mouth barely three months before sinking! It seems THIS effort at getting "quite a ride" was unfortunately Captain Walbridge's swan song. VERY, VERY unfortunate and I mean that in the most respectful way.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:27 AM   #77
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Very little in that sordid affair, other than the performance of the USCG SAR teams, is worthy of respect.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:33 AM   #78
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You may be the last person standing who has no doubt ... it has become increasingly obvious he willingly exposed his ship and crew to their fate.


http://thechronicleherald.ca/novasco...ing-hurricanes
Pay particular attention to the statements made starting at 10:27 on the clip, and again at around 20:50
Sounds to me like he was somewhat oblivious (too high headed) to some of the insurmountable perils that sea-storm conditions can actually produce... and he was lucky times before. Underestimating Mother Nature, over estimating your boat's capability, and thinking too high of one’s own prowess equal a recipe for disaster - As We See! There was nothing purposeful to this calamity... simply lack of judgment. Benchmarks such as this help instruct other Captains to make more rational decisions.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:34 AM   #79
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Greetings,
In respect for the unnecessary loss of life.
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Old 11-02-2012, 11:59 AM   #80
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Is there a court case after a rescue to determine if the person being rescued (At the peril of the rescuers.) is an idiot or just bad luck.
You always hear stories about rescues and wonder what the heck the idiot was doing in that situation in the first place.
I hope these people have to pay.

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