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Old 10-30-2012, 10:00 PM   #41
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Safer at Sea, BullCrap

Possibly it is safer at sea for the boat. Safer for the crew to be on dry land during heavy weather.
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Old 10-31-2012, 05:06 AM   #42
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That is absurd. "Safer at sea" is a myth that is being used to cover the incompetence of the master of the Bounty.

The USCGC Eagle and the Mystic Whaler were in the same location and still exist today with no damage and no crew were lost. Commercial operators in the area moved their vessels to ports of refuge in Long Island Sound and places like New London and Mystic ... they wanted to protect the vessels and crew rather than experience some imagined glory and make a film of the event. What happened to the Bounty is a crime, the organization that allowed it to happen should be charged with criminal negligence and hopefully will be sued out of existence. Let this be a lesson to all the other carnival ride tallship groups.
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Old 10-31-2012, 06:53 AM   #43
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That is absurd. "Safer at sea" is a myth ,

GEE,, I hope someone informs the US Navy , they have been running out to sea for decades!!
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:13 AM   #44
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Sure they have, they tend to raft up, and don't want to risk slamming against their neighbor, they can't risk being trapped in a port by fallen bridges or blocked waterways or other damaged infrastructure. They have the power to make good speed and the range to outdistance a storm if given enough warning.

No one else runs out of port into the face of a storm of historic proportions in an elderly wooden vessel manned by amateur sailors and only capable of running at a few knots.

Few Navy ship captains would change course to cross directly ahead of the path of the eye to head to for the shallow waters of Hatteras and a north wind into the Gulf Stream.

The captain was a fool and an unknowing woman paid for his ignorance and arrogance. Period.
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Old 10-31-2012, 07:24 AM   #45
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Isn't Lady Washington rigged as a brig vs brigantine?
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:51 AM   #46
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And by the way, since I have not seen a mention of it by anyone else, I'll just put in my two cents and say what a great job the Coast Guard did in rescuing those 14 crew members. Flying choppers and deploying baskets in that sort of weather has to call for skill and dedication that I, for one, applaud about as hard as I can applaud. As they say, "You have to go out. No one says you have to make it back."

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Old 10-31-2012, 09:01 AM   #47
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John

You are correct about the USCG heroics, too bad though that their lives were put in danger by the Bounty folly.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:50 AM   #48
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He who goes to sea should throw away the clock. He who goes to sea in a sailboat should throw away the calendar.
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Old 10-31-2012, 12:29 PM   #49
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Isn't Lady Washington rigged as a brig vs brigantine?
Brigantine: two masts, square-rigged on the foremast, staysails between the masts and gaff mailsail with square topsails on the mainmast.


Note the staysail between the masts shown in Marin's photo, post 39.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:16 PM   #50
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And by the way, since I have not seen a mention of it by anyone else, I'll just put in my two cents and say what a great job the Coast Guard did in rescuing those 14 crew members. Flying choppers and deploying baskets in that sort of weather has to call for skill and dedication that I, for one, applaud about as hard as I can applaud. As they say, "You have to go out. No one says you have to make it back."

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This video was posted on MTOA listserve... showing what those guys go thru...
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:43 PM   #51
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Just wondering.
What ever happened to the old adage of.

"Any port in a storm"

A hurricane is a storm isn't it.

A ship is safer at sea???

I tend to think the older the saying the truer the words.
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:56 PM   #52
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Brigantine: two masts, square-rigged on the foremast, staysails between the masts and gaff mailsail with square topsails on the mainmast.


Note the staysail between the masts shown in Marin's photo, post 39.

While I don't question your definition all the historical accounts I've seen written about the Lady Washington including excerpts from her captains' logs refer to her as a "sloop."
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Old 10-31-2012, 01:59 PM   #53
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While I don't question your definition all the historical accounts I've seen written about the Lady Washington including excerpts from her captains' logs refer to her as a "sloop."
Back then a sloop was a vessel with the capabilities below a frigate. It had nothing to do with the sails but with cannons.
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Old 10-31-2012, 02:48 PM   #54
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Just wondering.
What ever happened to the old adage of.

"Any port in a storm"

A hurricane is a storm isn't it.

A ship is safer at sea???

I tend to think the older the saying the truer the words.
Heading out when the storm is heading in is commonplace for sailboats whose only other option is an insecure anchorage. That isn't the case with the Bounty in this instance, but if she were in Hawaii or Cabo San Lucas, departing for the blue would not have been criticized.
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:11 PM   #55
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Naval vessels are no longer made of wood. They head for sea when the risk of being at sea is less than the risk of damage from storm surge and dock damage or damage from rafting or anchoring.

The failure that lead to the flooding and loss of propulsion will almost certainly be attributed to the vessel wracking and working in the seas while attempting to run south.

Captains of those things normally get the job because they started out as volunteers on tallships and worked their way up, not because they have superior judgement or seafaring skills. The outcome speaks for itself. The vessel left a safe port for a voyage into the face of an oncoming storm of historic proportions.
the facts are that the owner had been trying to sell her and throughout history tall ship owners have sent vessels out with mediocre captains in bad conditions hoping them to founder so they can collect insurance. Maybe this is the case here? Why else would the owner have ordered her out under these conditions?
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Old 10-31-2012, 04:17 PM   #56
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He who goes to sea should throw away the clock. He who goes to sea in a sailboat should throw away the calendar.
Hummm.....ive been to sea in a rowboat, jetboat <wooldridge Alaskan> with prop and even in a bayliner. Does that mean i should throw away both the clock and the calender?
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:39 PM   #57
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the facts are that the owner had been trying to sell her and throughout history tall ship owners have sent vessels out with mediocre captains in bad conditions hoping them to founder so they can collect insurance. Maybe this is the case here? Why else would the owner have ordered her out under these conditions?
That's a pretty outrageous insinuation.
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Old 10-31-2012, 08:49 PM   #58
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Back then a sloop was a vessel with the capabilities below a frigate. It had nothing to do with the sails but with cannons.
Okay, I'll go along with that but the original Lady Washington was a privately owned cargo vessel.
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Old 10-31-2012, 09:46 PM   #59
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That's a pretty outrageous insinuation.
not an insinuation of anything just simply an observation of what has happened historically with tall ships and what could still possibly happen.


Well its a well documented fact that tall ships were often disposed of this way in the past. And im sure if you ask your insurance adjuster he/she will tell you that is ofter the case today as owner seek the easy way out of ownership. I totaled a new truck a few years ago when i turned to miss a deer. The truck was hardly moving at the time and when i turned it went over on its top. I crawler out and stared in disbelief. My truck was on a logging road which appeared to be flat upside down. The adjuster told me he thought it was gonna be whqt he called an insurance job when the owner wrecks his vehicle by dumping it off a cliff or in a river when he got the call but confided in me that after examining my truck it was obvious because of the lack of skid marks it had been flipped while not moving and totaled. he was a dumfounded as i was as to how it could of happened. No way i was strong enough to flip her over on a narrow mountain logging road. One side of the road was a sheer cliff and the other side was straight up. the bottom line is crap happens and what appears to be the case is ofter not the case as determined byt a scientific investagation
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Old 10-31-2012, 10:08 PM   #60
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That's a pretty outrageous insinuation.
Especially since it's totally FALSE! The Captain he been the skipper of the Bounty for 20 years.
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