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Old 06-20-2014, 08:12 PM   #21
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Hi Eric

I post updates there too. Look for the thread titled: It's been awhile so lets get back up to speed She:Kon Beateau TW28 modified.

Went a few rounds with the design guru's there on my ideas. Got a lot of great feedback from them. I passed my plan by a NavArc at work before I cut any wood. Had it not been a viable option in his opinion I would have stuck with the 28 foot version.

Chime in anytime Eric. I take all feedback, good or bad as constructive criticism. I've changed track a few times based on input from forumites.

If I got one thing to say about your skiff, follow your dream & Go For It! Where can I see more pics of your Nomad?

Thanks for looking in.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:21 AM   #22
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Rick,
Glad you've been at BD. Stretching can be simple or complicated depending on the design and where and/or how you want to do the stretch. If you expand all the dimensions of the boat there will be building problems like the dimensions of plywood or the length of fasteners. And if you add to a straight boat like a old 26' Bayliner it will be easy. If you added a straight section to my Willard you'd have a non-fair boat. ectectectect
Looks and sounds like you may have it all handled. Are you stretching all over, just amidships or ??
Was 55hp called for by the NA?
Here's several pics of Willy. I have many pics on a thread "A Long Way Home". Find it in the advanced search. SE Alaska but mostly west coast Canada. About 200 posts and 10,000 views.
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Old 06-21-2014, 12:49 AM   #23
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That boat just has the right look. No question about what you are looking at. It is a BOAT. Love it.
And…it's not just Gangnam style…it's trawler style…absolutely..!
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Old 06-21-2014, 06:26 AM   #24
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Rick,
Glad you've been at BD. Stretching can be simple or complicated depending on the design and where and/or how you want to do the stretch. If you expand all the dimensions of the boat there will be building problems like the dimensions of plywood or the length of fasteners. And if you add to a straight boat like a old 26' Bayliner it will be easy. If you added a straight section to my Willard you'd have a non-fair boat. ectectectect
Looks and sounds like you may have it all handled. Are you stretching all over, just amidships or ??
Was 55hp called for by the NA?
Here's several pics of Willy. I have many pics on a thread "A Long Way Home". Find it in the advanced search. SE Alaska but mostly west coast Canada. About 200 posts and 10,000 views.
Hey Eric

I've only ever seen one Willard up this way. Captured this pic along the Rideau Canal our first summer there.



I fell in love with them just then! There just aren't a whole lot of them around these parts. Salty & Sturdy are two words that come to mind!

Just stretching it lengthwise. The stretch was accomplished by duplicating the widest station and adding the same length of separation between it and the next one aft. The colored section below.



All the long panels had the 39-1/8 section spliced in like the picture below.



Here's a side panel (33' long) being flipped. You can easily see the splice in the middle.



The only trouble I had was with some crooked cuts on the bottom panels and they had to be sawn apart and respliced on the strongback. I let the natural curve of the long panels describe the shape and it turned out pretty good. There are some small flat spots along the chine where the spliced in panel is but they will be below the waterline.

I know I will have some issues with the bulkheads when I got to install them. The beam is approx. 2" wider. Just a lil' backyard ingenuity will fix that right up!

Looking down the side you can still make out the splice in this pic. The shape turned out pretty nice.



The 55 HP is pretty much at the top end limit for this boat. Weight wise, it's Ok. HP req't to drive this hull at speed is about 22 HP at the prop so we'll have plenty in reserve. I'll have enough capacity to add an engine driven cold plate system or another alternator if I choose. The price was right also!

Cheers!
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Old 06-21-2014, 10:47 AM   #25
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Part 5 Bending & Stiching & Gluing

Trying to make plywood bend the way it doesn't want to is part of this game. I do believe the kit I bought may have been one of the of the first kits cut for Beateau (dot) com and as such there were a few issues. The most critical was the misplacement of the kerfs on the bottom bow sections.



You can see the filled kerfs on this pic on the outers side of the hull. They should have been on the inside. It caused a few problems when I pulled the bow panels into shape and the panel cracked leaving a hump. I tried to correct it but couldn't get enough force to push it back into place.

It takes a lot of force to bring these panels together and get them to develop properly over the forms. Much more than I had anticipated. The marine plywood is pretty tough stuff! After much wrangling, strapping, screwing & stitching the bow came together.



I was gluing the seams and pulled one toooooo many wire ties and *Sproing* it went off like a cannon!



Some resitching and tape later it all came back as it should be.The rest of the taping of the seams went off without a hitch. I gave myself a fairly large radius on all seams which helped avoid a lot of problems with the tape bridging and creating bubbles.



Getting the bottom panels to come down to the forms was a bit of a bugger. This is the section that's the most developed and had a lot of tension in the panels. You can see the large zip ties, these were the biggest I could find and something like 120 lbs breaking strength.



The transom was the only compound part to be assembled. It was made up of two half inch sheets of ply over a form. It took a huge amount of tension to bend them into shape as you can see.



Spring back after I released the clamps & straps was about 10% which is normal and accounted for in the design of the form.

Next up, Bow Thruster Tube

Standby.
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:33 AM   #26
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Part 6: The Bow Thruster Tube

Why do you need a bow thruster? I get asked that a lot. The short & simple answer is 'Safety'. I consider myself a pretty good boat handler. Our 25' single I/O boat was a bit of a beast to handle. The only time I had a real problem with it was trying to back into a slip in 20kt side wind with a 3kt current on my stern. A thruster would have helped a lot in that situation. We'll likely spend a lot of time cruising canals, it's what we like to do, the Rideau, Trent Severn, Erie, ICW etc. I've heard it many times from people who've boated these waterways that they'd wished they had a thruster.

An old and wise ship captain used to tell me, a thruster won't make a bad boat handler a good boat handler but it will make a good boat handler a great boat handler. That makes sense I think. You still have to be able to handle your boat if your thruster fails. I'm confident I can do that. The 'safety' issue I have is mostly in the canals & locks. Our plan is to have Lori on the bow and me on the stern. This worked well on our old boat. Occasionally the bow drifts off the lock wall and she has to stretch to grab the wire to pull us back in. I don't like that too much and have seen vids of people actually falling into the lock doing just that.

We chose, after much online shopping and opinion research a Lewmar 140TT2.2 (3HP) thruster.



The company we dealt with gave us a good price for the whole kit, thruster & tube as well as Lewmar was the only company that would start the warranty counting the day the boat goes in the water. Every other one we inquired about starts their warranty period on day of purchase so if we had chosen another brand it would have been out of warranty before it was even installed in the boat.

They say you know you're making progress on your boat the first time you have to cut a hole in the hull you've so carefully built to be water tight! :-) Following the instructions I located the thruster as per manufacturers recommendations. This took a little bit of work.



Once I had the center of my location markded I made myself a marking tool out of a 1/4" steel rod and a sharpie marker. Pretty simple tool if you think about it.



When cut out the thruster tube was fitted. Went in like a glove.



Markings were made and the tube trimmed.



Once realligned in the holes for vertical the tube was glued into place. It will get plenty of tape & fiberglass reinforcement once the hull is flipped. There's also glass from the bottom panels overlapped into the tube. It's not going anywhere!



This pic is from much later and shows the flare I built up on the leading edge of the thruster tube as well as the Saertex (Carbon Fiber) I put on the bow for collision protection (we have a lot of junk in our river).



I should add that the thruster has a wireless remote control that Lori will be able to use from the bow should she need to move the boat. That way I don't have to run back and forth to the controls to help her out.

Part 7 coming up, Glassing the hull
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Old 06-23-2014, 08:43 AM   #27
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Rick it looks like you are really making progress. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 06-23-2014, 09:39 PM   #28
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For those of you that haven't experienced one of my famous sanding video's here's one from today. Fairing the bottom in prep for primer - YouTube
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:19 PM   #29
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Rick,
Yes the easiest way to extend. Wish my Willard was extended like that. But if I was to extend Willy I'd do it aft. Don't like the convex hook in the aft end of the hull. I'd rather have a stern more like The KK42. Extending the Albin 25 amidships would be a nightmare. To make a cut across the midships section whereas one could move both ends apart a distance on a straight line would require very curvy cut that would require nightmarish computations and layout. Your boat w an almost straight section amidships extends well.

Didn't know about the 40' Willard pilothouse "Willie". There is a 30' Willard named Willie but we are the only Willy. Far as I know.

I was asking about the power as the stock W30 had a 36hp Perkins propped to only make 33hp. No one has ever complained about having to little power. My Willy has 40hp and hence is a bit over powered. Would have done fine w a 32hp 3 cyl Isuzu but the cost of having a bit too much power is preferable to having too little. And I wanted a 4 cyl engine. Full disp boats are usually powered according to their displacement and Willy's 8 tons. Looks like your boat should require half as much power but 18-20hp doesn't seem right either. One great thing about your engine choice is the engine itself. I've heard nothing but great things about the JH 55 Yanmars.
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Old 06-24-2014, 09:43 AM   #30
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Morning Eric

I couldn't see bringing myself to stretching a beautiful boat like your Willard or any finished boat for that matter. I've seen it done mind you, some turned out Ok and some were horrendously hideous. We actually considered a 30' Bruce Roberts project boat (abandoned by previous builder) and stretching it 6' but on consult with my NavArc buddy the geometry just was too far off.

I know of one TW28 with 85 HP and will actually semi-plane at full throttle. He achieved this by mounting two huge trim tabs on the transom. Not my kind of thrill but I guess if it can be done someone will do it. I'm content to spend the rest of my cruising life puttering around at 7kts. The extra power will come in handy if needed and I have the option of adding some engine driven accessories like a cold plate compressor or an extra alternator or hydraulic pump etc.

If I remember correctly the standard TW28 requires 22 HP at the shaft to make hull speed.

Back in the early 80's a lot of the CG small aux craft all had 4 cyl turbo Yanmars. I guess that's one reason I fixated on them when I was shopping for a prime mover. They suffered terrible abuse at the hands of the deck monkeys who operated them and never complained, just kept purring along.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:31 PM   #31
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Part 7 Prep on the hull before glassing

Had to chop just one more tiny eensy weensy little hole in the boat before I got to some serious fiberglass work. Having had a couple of situations on our old boat with the depth sounder transducer on the transom I decided to have a forward through hull transducer this time. Airmar P76 I believe it is. This requires no core between it and the bottom of the boat so a hole had to be cut to remove the core.



Yup, that's progress, more holes in the hull! I used the cutout covered in some plastic & peel ply to fill the hole and glassed over top with a couple of pieces of tape.





Started to build up the area around the bow thruster holes to give them some shape that hopefully will direct water flowing over and not into the tubes. That's the theory anyways.



First up for glass was the keel. Don't worry, that's not bubbles in the glass, that's peel ply overtop of the glass. It won't conform to curves as nicely as fiberglass does.



As well as the carbon fiber you saw earlier covering the bow there's an extra layer of Saertex on the stem and bottom of the keel. Why? well I have it and it's not a whole lot of extra work to put it in now. One extra layer of insurance maybe in case we hit a submerged D8 dozer or something! :-)





All the seams were double taped and faired a bit before any glass was laid on the hull. I know it's kind of ugly at this point but all the prep work is done except for some sanding then the glass gets rolled out.


Standby for part 7b, glassing the hull.
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Old 06-24-2014, 12:50 PM   #32
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Part 7b Glassing the hull

If I remember correctly the roll of 33 oz Triax I used on the bottom panels weighed just a bit over 150 lbs. No way I could hump it up to the top of the boat and handle it myself so I used the electric winch I rigged to the top of the shed. I'm a firm believer in letting the machines to the bulk of the work and save my poor aching back.



The fabric was all laid out and trimmed to fit. You can see the pieces hanging from the stays that span the shed roof. I put the stays there to prevent the shed from bowing out when I lifted loads with the winch. I couldn't leave the glass in place and walk on it so I had to fold it up and hang it out of the way. Not really an ideal situation but it was the best I could do at the time.



If I remember correctly the bottom panels are just a hair over 25' long and 5' at the widest point. They overlap the chine about 4" and at the keel another 4" tapering to no overlap at the bow and back of the keel. I used extra tape on these sections to make up for the lack of overlap.



The heavy triax leaves a pretty pronounced texture once wetted out. This caused me some concern because I knew I would have to sand before next layer went on. No chance of working wet on wet with this project, too big. It took me most of the day working alone to do one side. Luckily I could work from the step ladder with an extension handle to spread the epoxy. The triax sucked it up like a sponge and I think I used 6 gallons per side! *Yikes* But when you think about it that's not too bad, one layer of triax replaced two layers of biax.



The 'Landing Strip' glassed! I was a bit luckier on the port side as I had help mixing epoxy! Job still took 4 hours to complete.



The extra heavy bottom glass left a pretty big edge to be faired. I ground them down a bit then faired them out as best I could. I knew this would help down the line so I did what I could.



I think it was about this time I took my little tumble down the stairs and tore up my right knee and pulled something in my back. I don't remember exactly how much time passed before I got back to the boat but it was mostly over one winter. The next step coming up is the basalt fabric on the transom and the glass on the sides. Standby....
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Old 06-25-2014, 07:24 AM   #33
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I often get asked 'how much is this boat going to cost?', well I've tried to track what we've spent over the years and capture that in a spreadsheet. I've always had a spreadsheet online to share with other builders/dreamers and have now included a couple of spreadsheets on our web log to illustrate what it costs: M/V She:Kon: Added a few features
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:30 AM   #34
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What's inside the box keel Rick?
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:38 AM   #35
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What's inside the box keel Rick?
Nothing right now Eric. Eventually there'll be a shower sump & bilge pump in the fwd section and ballast. In the engine room just a drip pan under the engine and two bilge pumps.

I had considered putting batteries in there. They'll fit but I don't think it's the best place for them.



I want to keep it as clear as possible. Makes fishing tools out of it a lot easier!
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Old 06-25-2014, 12:53 PM   #36
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Hey Eric.

Here's an interesting vid on Youtube of a guy who stretched his sailing cat.

Boatbuilding - How To Add 5 Feet To Your Cruising Catamaran - YouTube
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:08 PM   #37
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Part 8 Glassing the sides & Transom.

Once the 'Landing Strip' and the 'Bowling Alley' were glassed & sanded it was onto the sides & transom. I did the transom first with the help of a buddy from Montreal, accomplished boat builder, Peter Lenihan. Peter's built himself a beauty of a Bolger.



I decided to use the remaining two yards of basalt fabric I had left for the transom. It really is very nice stuff to work with. If I remember correctly it was 22 oz biaxial. It wets out extremely well and conforms to complex corners easily. I used peel ply on this section hoping to get a really nice fair transom.



All I had at the time was my cell phone and it wouldn't take a good picture of the finished product. The basalt is near jet black when laminated, almost as black as carbon fiber.

Anyhow, next came the sides. These get three layers total. One 1708 0/90 and one 1208 45/45 and a final layer of 10 oz satin weave. Working along this time I knew there was no way I could get all three layers done on both sides in one shot so I had to do them one at a time.





I used peel ply again on this layer and I think this side turned out Ok.



No dry spots but a couple of bubbles at the chine. These were ground out and patched.



Moving onto the other side I ran into an issue that I think was related to the cold temps I was working in. Ripples! The cool temps (low 60's) combined with the slow hardener allowed the epoxy to slump inbetween the fabric weave making these ripples. I panicked!



All I could do was put the sander to them and hope for the best. What I found was the fabric was well set to the plywood underneath and I was only sanding off the tops of the epoxy ripples not touching the glass (hardly).

Both sides were lightly sanded and the process repeated with the 1208. I didn't use peel ply this time as I figured I'd likely have to sand it anyways before the final layer of satin weave.



The 1208 later also got put on the bottom & keel at this time. It went a lot quicker so I could get more done in one session without burning myself out. This is play 1208 with no mat on the back and it wets out very well.



I tinted the last layer, satin weave blue so I'd know later on if I was sanding too far into the reinforcements.



I think this took me up to the end of the building season pretty much. I did a few test patches of home brew fairing compounds and tried some Quikfair I had. Thought and read a lot about fairing over the winter 'cause I knew that was coming next.

Standby for the following spring (2014).....
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:46 PM   #38
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Part 9 Fairing and Sandinsanity

A lot of time was spent feathering out the fabric edges where they overlap especially at the chine. If I remember correctly there are 4 layers of 6 oz tape, one layer of 33 oz triax, 1 layer of 1708, 2 layers of 1208 and 1 layer of 10 oz satin weave all overlapping at this point. I feathered them out as I went because I knew the buildup of tape edges would be a hassle to fair.



As I mentioned before I tried out some home brew fairing compounds with stuff I had. Wood flower, fumed silica and microspheres. I never did settle on a recipe that I liked. I did have some Quikfair and tried that. Pretty simple stuff to use. Ease of mixing and consistancy were important so I decided to use the Quikfair.



This shows the fairing required to try to get the chine fair. I had to do this a couple of times, fill, fair, fill, fair and still had issues.



Luckily most of the chine will be below the water line so it's not really a big issue it's just I know it's not fair. I don't mind spending the time to try to get it as decent as possible.

Also did some more shaping around the bow thruster exit. This took some time, all done freehand and shaped with the RO.



I ordered myself 3 gallons of Quikfair and while waiting for that to arrive I used what I had left from the year before to get a start on the bow. This is one section I want to try to get perfect, if I can, because a lot of it will be above the waterline.



As of this time I've got two layers of Quikfair on the bow and will likely need another before it's ready for primer. When supplies arrived I moved onto the sides and transom.



In October of last year I ordered two Flexicat tools. A 22" fairing spreader and a 33" sander. At the time I fully expected to get the tools quickly so I'd have them for the start of the season.

Well long story short that didn't happen. The US supplier couldn't get any inventory from the mfgr in EU. Apparently the company wanted to move to a new facility. The contractor who was supposed to mfgr the tools went bankrupt and left them hanging in the breeze with no way to fill their orders. The US supplier graciously loaned me two Flexicat sanders they had as demo's so I could at least get started. This left me with no choice but to use Bondo and drywall spreaders to apply the goo.



I started on the sides but in hindsight I should have done the bottom first. Learned how to work with this stuff where cosmetics weren't an issue then moved onto the sides where it is. I ended up chasing my tail a lot. Fill, fair. Fill the lows and fair. When I did that I ended up with lows on either side of a high spot which I'd have to go back and fill/fair again! Round and round it went till I gave up and just sanded the crap out of it all to get back to fair. Live and learn.



I tried a couple different guide coats, regular cheap flat black sandable primer and 3M Dry Guide Coat. The 3M stuff is for later use and the flat black primer really sucks if you get it on too thick. It's weird stuff. 10" from the hull, too much goes on, 10-1/2" from the hull and it just falls to the ground Oh well, sand it all off and try again.



Eventually, with a lot of elbow grease I got the sides and transom worked fair to the point where I think I'm ready for high build primer.



So, we're almost caught up. Here's a shot of the bottoms getting faired. As of right now both bottom sides have been faired and almost finished sanded. The keel has yet to have some Quikfair applied and sanded. There'll be a couple rounds of fill/fair on the tape edges and fillets but I suspect that'll happen pretty quickly.



Once the fairing is done I'll roll on a couple coats of neat epoxy and sand. When that's done I'll shoot a couple of coats of high build epoxy primer (actually a barrier coat like Interprotect 2000e) and the bottom up to the drawn waterline will get an ablative antifouling.

Whew!!! That was a mouthfull! AND then, we flip this whale over!

Just a cool pic!




There. We're caught up. From now on it'll be nearly live updates!
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Old 06-27-2014, 02:59 PM   #39
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Great stuff and a beautiful job. Thanks for posting.
Question. Are you keeping track of your hours? Working not thinking. lol
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Old 06-27-2014, 03:22 PM   #40
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City: Iroquois, ON
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry M View Post
Great stuff and a beautiful job. Thanks for posting.
Question. Are you keeping track of your hours? Working not thinking. lol
Thanks for the kind words Larry. They help.

No, not keeping track of hours at all. It's too depressing a statistic in a home built project!

I've seen the 28' version built in 8 months by two guys. One was a pro. I've also seen the 28' version built in 3 years by one guy. A lot depends on the quality of the finish you're trying to achieve. I know mine won't look like it came out of a mold but it'll be as close as I can get it.

Thanks again for looking in.
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Yours Aye! Rick
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