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Old 03-06-2015, 05:10 PM   #1561
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Originally Posted by motogizmo View Post
Mat,


Can I suggest that minimum put 800 to 1000 pounds of gravel bagged up in the low keel when you launch for the first time, and have more ready if you need it. I really truly believe that you will need additional ballast down low to make her stable.


By increasing her (length and width) displacement you have moved her center of gravity up. By increasing her freeboard more of the same. Big windows, and steel in the upper superstructure (look great)...... the center of gravity moves farther and farther up. Once the CG gets above the water line SHE WILL ROLL OVER!!! That 800 pound Perkins only looks to be partially below waterline. The fuel tank looks to be splitting the waterline. The waterline is completely imaginary this point. I am worried for you my friend.


By using gravel or sand you can dump it without crating an environmental disaster. It will be easy to move for and aft. ITs cheep or free. You can move it around to get your rim right. I suspect you will be top heavy, and a (small ) risk of a roll over. I don't say any of this to piss you off, but I really want you to be safe! I hope all of my worry is for not.


I would also recommend NOT putting a bunch of fuel on board at first. If something goes wrong up here they charge you by the gallon. In the US that can be 10,000$ per gallon of oil on board if they can prove willful negligence.


I know there are several of you that are regular followers of this thread that are thinking the same thing. If we have a naval architect in the group that could help with some real weight and balance calculations please pipe in here.
While being cautious is usually never a bad idea....do you have any references describing the situations where having a cg above the waterline automatically ensures a rollover?

I'm pretty sure that isn't true as I have seen examples of cgs above the waterline.....it is a little more complicated as hull shape and buoyancy as a boat rolls changes...etc..etc...

I have it on pretty good advice and experience so I would be interested if you have any specifics.
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:32 PM   #1562
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It can vary a lot but very few powerboats (almost none) have a VCG below waterline. In smaller (< 60') ballasted full displacement boats that are not steel or 2+ stories high, VCG will be 1-2' above waterline. In un-ballasted semi displacement boats VCG might be 3-4' above waterline. Fiberglass boats will generally have a lower VCG, steel or aluminum (if the deck and house are metal) will be higher.
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Old 03-06-2015, 05:40 PM   #1563
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Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
It can vary a lot but very few powerboats (almost none) have a VCG below waterline. In smaller (< 60') ballasted full displacement boats that are not steel or 2+ stories high, VCG will be 1-2' above waterline. In un-ballasted semi displacement boats VCG might be 3-4' above waterline. Fiberglass boats will generally have a lower VCG, steel or aluminum (if the deck and house are metal) will be higher.
Thanks...what I was taught and a good friend pointed it out when it caught his eye...just wanted to make sure.

You do a great service here keeping things real....lots of backyard mechs with good ideas but quite often some sneak in a lot of myths.
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Old 03-07-2015, 01:10 AM   #1564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tad Roberts View Post
It can vary a lot but very few powerboats (almost none) have a VCG below waterline. In smaller (< 60') ballasted full displacement boats that are not steel or 2+ stories high, VCG will be 1-2' above waterline. In un-ballasted semi displacement boats VCG might be 3-4' above waterline. Fiberglass boats will generally have a lower VCG, steel or aluminum (if the deck and house are metal) will be higher.

This is great information thank you, and exactly why I was thinking an expert should have some input here. The point still remains the same. Even if the CG is too high, and the boat is stable at rest in calm waters unloaded, that can change very quickly in poor sea conditions and variable loads. I know this is true of any vessel engineered or back yard mechanic built. Rolling over is only a worst case scenario. Trim is important. Most of us take trim for granted, because our factory build vessel was engineered, and test for trim.

None of this takes anything away from Mat, or the amazing amount of great work he has accomplished. This is merely friendly suggestion from a fellow boat builder that has had his issues over the years. Any boat no mater who build it should have critical evaluation of its trim and stability when any significant amount of change had been made.

True story.. from a fisherman..lol
I was on a fishing trip this last year with one of my customers. We added a 60 gall live bait tank and a 32 cubic foot fish box to a 1972 Uniflite Salty Dog. The owner had me go out with him for tuna with a few of his buddy's.

At the dock this boat is a rock. What I did not know is that 7 more guys all weighting in at of 250 pounds were showing up with all their gear. I was nervous, and I had a discussion about weight with the boat owner, but the owner assured my that this boat was fine with lots of weight..... We headed out 70 plus miles off shore. The weather was good 5 foot seas on 13 second interval. We found the tuna... That was all fine and great until all 7 big guys wanted to have a look at that fist fish. We rolled sharply to the port. The self bailing scuppers on the port side buried under the water, and we were now taking on several hundred gallons a minute of blue water. The force of the on the swim step ripped the swim step off the boat. Everyone got back to stable positions on deck. Orders were given that no more than 2 crew could be on the rail at any give time. We finished the trip with 28 tuna, and a dry boat.

See the addition of the live well added 500 ponds to the boat at the after most part of the deck well above the CG (this is very live weight!). The Fish box below deck (at CG) added another 800 pounds (again live weight, and before any tuna) to the boat. The owner was used to having 2500 pounds of fisherman, and 500 pounds of gear on board, but did not calculate in the additional 1300 pounds of water, ice and equipment. Cool heads kept us from sinking that day, but had the seas been bad...(50 degree waters)... we all might have died!!!!! The Salty Dog is a great boat, and capable of caring large loads no problem. I think the crew limit for that boat is now capped at 6! Scupper flappers were added. We doubled the bilge pump capacity, now they manage the live tank levels per sea conditions. He loves the mods we did to the boat, but was not fully prepared for how they wound change they way he uses his boat.


Just about the time you think you have the upper hand on boating it will bite you in the butt!
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Old 03-07-2015, 01:26 AM   #1565
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My apologies.


I should have said "Once the CG gets too far above the water line SHE CAN ROLL OVER!!!


Next time I will try to have 4 cups of coffee before posting anything.


If the navel engineer Mr. Roberts and Matt are all happy... I am good.... I can't wait to see the video of Axe under way.


Here is the video of first float test on my boat after 2 and half years of modification.


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Old 03-07-2015, 05:02 AM   #1566
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Thanks folks. Not feeling really chatty or productive atm but I am just popping in to say that I appreciative of all of your concerns and the discussions and I will defiantly take onboard everything you guys have suggested.

Some really good info posted and I am grateful. Really I am

I'll post a better response once I've stopped sooking and started back on AXE.

Cheers again folks.




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Old 03-07-2015, 09:43 AM   #1567
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Hi Matt

Good to hear from you mate. Robin and I have been in communication regarding items of AXE recently mentioned and regarding you in general. Take care of yourself first. AXE is patiently smiling waiting for her Captain to become ready for jumping back onboard.

Everything happens in due time... that includes The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly!

First of life's situational premise -" The Good" - is getting ready to once again somehow reinvigorate your happiness quotient. Yesterday is past, oncoming is your future, today is a gift – that’s why it is called the “Present”!

Looking forward to your next AXE success stories and cool pictures.

Go Boaty – GOOOOOO!
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Old 03-07-2015, 11:23 AM   #1568
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Matt,


Sounds like you are in a rough bit of water right now. We have all become remotely involved in your Axe project..... an your life. Axe will help you through this rough water if you get back aboard and give her some love and attention.


Part of the reason I keep doing my boat blog is that my readers are so involved. I wish I was not half a world away I would be over there lending a hand, and some motivation. My way of getting through the rough bits in life is just to do a little bits every day. The hardest part of a marathon is putting you shoes on and getting out the door. Just putting on my work cloths and going to the shop can seem like hell some days, I just want to sit in front of the computer and surf junk. So I just go out in my street cloths and spend a half hour cleaning up. After a few days of that the shop is looking so good, I almost can't help but to make a little mess. Next thing you know the dust is flying and progress is being made again.


I am having a hell of a time getting motivated right now too. I am over sleeping. I know I should be getting up early, and getting stuff done... but is cold....... there is so much to do, and my deadline is coming fast!!!!!!!!


I am not entirely sure what Snooky is, but I hope it goes away soon....
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:18 AM   #1569
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Matt,

How goes the battle? Feeling any better these days? I hope this inspires you a little. I put my boat in on salt water Monday. Had a little over heating problem that cut the day short. The Problem is almost fixed now.

Get Back to work, your boat misses you.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/TBMgVD-BIho
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Old 03-26-2015, 12:42 AM   #1570
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Quote:
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Matt,

How goes the battle? Feeling any better these days? I hope this inspires you a little. I put my boat in on salt water Monday. Had a little over heating problem that cut the day short. The Problem is almost fixed now.

Get Back to work, your boat misses you.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/TBMgVD-BIho

Robin - your baby scoots!

Matt

How ya doing champ? When you're ready to hit-it-up on AXE again ... I believe many on TF are ready to cheer you on again! Hope things are improving.

Your Boat Mate -Art
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Old 03-26-2015, 01:50 AM   #1571
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Matt!

Ok mate, we are all sitting here waiting on you Bud! I'm sure Axe is feeling neglected, she is the "other woman".
But then again, maybe you found a new love or?
Anyway, let us know your still alive and kicking, please.

John
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Old 03-30-2015, 12:34 AM   #1572
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Matt, Still cheering for you and AXE. May the sun shine on your face. Or wherever else you may prefer. When you are ready, I think those of us who follow your odyssey will be ready too. I will wait while you repair you. Then the AXE. Roll on buddy! Roll on!
Dave
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Old 03-30-2015, 02:33 AM   #1573
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Hey Matt,
Hope you're taking care of yourself. We're pulling for you, bud.
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Old 04-11-2015, 08:53 PM   #1574
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Matt - We are all pulling for ya!

Give us a hint as to your current latitude/longitude on life and if any chances to again vicariously live with you regarding your cherished AXE project. She's been coming along so well for so long!

Be well my friend.

Cheers! Art
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Old 04-12-2015, 10:26 PM   #1575
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Sorry for the tardy responses. All is well. Went to AXE last night to check on her. It's been raining hard here for the last few weeks and but she's holding up well. Few tarp leaks but nothing major.

I've not done anything since my last update, sorry. Its been a bit hectic with moving house etc but should get her up and going again soon

Hope y'all well.

Hendo :-)




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Old 04-12-2015, 10:39 PM   #1576
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Hey Matt

Good to hear from you. Just checken in today to see if you're still freely breathing. Not that I really thought you might not be!

Looking forward to your future boat daze.

Your Bud - Art
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:19 AM   #1577
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Hendo's Randall 35 Cray Boat complete rebuild, Perth, Western Australia

Hi all.
Picked up My 3mtr tender today. Commercial Grade rating with Positive/Level Flotation in hiviz Orange. Easy to see and unsinkable. Now I just gotta fit her out with carpet and a few bits and pieces then Perfecto...!

For me; this is a much better option than an inflatable style tender. This one has a lifetime warranty and will never puncture and go flat lol

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Old 04-15-2015, 03:21 AM   #1578
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Below link is from Spindrift water trial. This one is only a 2.4mtr and isn't commercial grade but it'll give you an idea of it

http://youtu.be/QscORQGjP_M




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Old 04-15-2015, 03:32 AM   #1579
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Nice tender, Matt
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Old 04-15-2015, 03:53 AM   #1580
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Those poly tenders are near indestructible, and therefore popular with charter operators. Very stable, especially in that design, and the wheels will help for moving it on land. Should be a useful safe tender, good choice Matt.
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