elegante gb europa 42

[dtbender]

would like to convert electric range on boat to propane was wondering any body have input on how to approach thank tb

 

[garyj4101]

Do you currently have propane tank storage with venting outside the hull? If not you will need to account for the fact that propane gas is heavier than air, hence the venting issue, otherwise you could end up with a bilge full of highly explosive gas.
Gary

 

[DavidM]

If you have an electric stove, odds are that you do not have a propane tank now. You will have to find a place on deck to put a propane locker. These are available at WM, Defender, etc. See http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|2276179|2276204|2276205|2276252|2276261&id=1294566. The locker needs to be located in the open and where it can drain overboard and not into the bilge.

You have a GB Europa 42, right. Maybe you can find a place on the flybridge for the locker or in the corner of the aft cockpit.

The Trident locker comes complete with a gauge, regulator and propane solenoid. The solenoid is wired to a switch on your main electrical panel that opens the propane valve when it is needed. Then you need an appropriate length of hose from the solenoid valve to the stove.

It isn't easy to do this and if not done right, looks like hell and if done wrong can blow up your boat.

David

 

[sunchaser]

Suggest trying the GB users forum. Lots of gas ranges in use on GBs with appropriate do's and don'ts. Go by the book, no short cuts. Read Nigel Calder's write-up as to basics. Dave's points are right on.

 

[Marin]

GBs with propane systems on board use the port flying bridge seat base as the propane locker. This compartment is isolated and sealed from the interior of the boat and vented overboard out the side of the flying bridge. We have two Worthington aluminum horizontal propane tanks in our locker and the gas line runs down the inside of the cabin side and is connected to our Force 10 range (stovetop/oven/broiler) in the galley.

 

[DavidM]

If you use the sealed and vented LPG tank storage space that Marin described above, you will not need a separate locker. But you will need a gauge, regulator and solenoid valve that can be purchased separately.

FWIW you can buy the hose made up with fittings to the proper length from just about any local LPG gas supplier. It will cost 1/4 of anything with the "marine" tag on it.


The regulator and gauge can be bought from BBQ shops but you won't save that much and the solenoid valve is specific to marine use.

David

 

[hmason]

Why do you want to convert to propane??

 

[Giggitoni]

GBs with propane systems on board use the port flying bridge seat base as the propane locker. This compartment is isolated and sealed from the interior of the boat and vented overboard out the side of the flying bridge. We have two Worthington aluminum horizontal propane tanks in our locker and the gas line runs down the inside of the cabin side and is connected to our Force 10 range (stovetop/oven/broiler) in the galley.

Same set up as Marin with our GB42. djmarchand makes a good point regarding the use of an electric solenoid valve connected to a breaker in your 12-volt power. Ours has an red light on the upper dash control as a reminder that the valve is open.

 

[SteveD]

Why do you want to convert to propane??

I cannot speak for the original poster, but my reason was that I did not want to start up the generator to boil some water or even to cook breakfast.

 

[boatpoker]

Try this if you want to be ABYC compliant Safe Propane Installation on Boats

 

[Marin]

Our boat has a manual shutoff valve in the propane locker with the valve handle in the overhead in the galley. We leave this valve closed unless the Force 10 is actually going to be used. As soon as the use of the stove is ended the valve is turned off again. When we leave the boat, like going home after a run, we also shut off the valve on the propane tank that's connected to the propane line.

If a propane system is set up properly and used intelligently I don't believe it is inherently any more dangerous than an electric galley. Not that anyone has made that claim here yet, but I know it can be a concern to some boaters who are contemplating switching to propane.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

If you use the sealed and vented LPG tank storage space that Marin described above, you will not need a separate locker.

I don't believe that is exactly true. While GB used that setup for decades, I'm not sure it really would be considered AYBC compliant.

Not that it hasn't work just fine in most cases all these years. But the seat lid is not gasket end and air tight. And the seat is not really dedicated to just be a propane locker. Plus if the locket has two bottles in it like many do/did, they are not separated from each other in their own compartments like I believe AYBC wants them.

In many cases the venting was just out the drain notches in the lower part of the seat box. Which might be compliant but I've also in many cases seen holes in the wall in those boxes that in theory could allow propane to get to the space under the fly bridge helm and possibly down to the galley/saloon area.

Of course even the boats with these issues are not blowing up right and left. Heck I've even seen them where the propane bottle was under the flybridge helm area.

I only bring it up because some surveyor may make an issue of it if you don't dot all your i and cross all your t.

 

[DavidM]

Well, I have got to point out, ABYC standards, unlike USCG requirements are not law. They are voluntary best practice guidelines. There are very few new boats if any that meet all ABYC standards.


As an example, the propane detectors that I have used are mostly worthless. They fail in a year or less and give spurious false positives. I have bypassed them on every boat that I have owned with one.


Does that make me less safe? I don't think so. I do follow the one hose rule, so that there is only one connection to the stove to worry about. My nose is a pretty good detector, although one does have to get down near the sole to use it properly.


The lack of a gasket on a top opening locker is another questionable standard. Sure in a perfect world gasketing that joint makes sense, but propane is heavier than air, right? So why does the locker need to be sealed at the top?


David

 

[caltexflanc]

David, water is heavier than air too. If the hole at the bottom is smaller than the supply from the leak...

 

[Marin]

I suspect a surveyor, at least a competent and knowledgeable one, makes allowances for the age of the boat. A brand new or very new boat probably gets scrutinized more intently for adherence to the ABYC standards, which as David points our are not requirements but are desired practices.

An older boat, like our 1973 model with its as-built propane locker and propane line to the galley would be looked upon as being just what it is; an older generation boat. Expecting or demanding that it be in compliance with the ABYC recommendations is like expecting or demanding that a Ford Model A pickup be in compliance with the current crash and rollover protection requirements that apply to my new Ford pickup.

Now if somebody along the way had made modifications to our old boat's propane system and these modifications were deemed to be potentially dangerous per the ABYC standards (and perhaps common sense as well) then I would expect a competent surveyor to write them up.

 

[boatpoker]

I suspect a surveyor, at least a competent and knowledgeable one, makes allowances for the age of the boat. A brand new or very new boat probably gets scrutinized more intently for adherence to the ABYC standards,

An older boat, like our 1973 model with its as-built propane locker and propane line to the galley would be looked upon as being just what it is; an older generation boat. Expecting or demanding that it be in compliance with the ABYC recommendations is like expecting or demanding that a Ford Model A pickup be in compliance with the current crash and rollover protection requirements that apply to my new Ford pickup.

I don't care how old the boat is, I survey to ABYC Standards (plus what I've learned over the years). 99% of the buyers I survey for know very little about the systems on the boats they buy and I feel it is my responsibility to inform them of the "best practice" (often ABYC). I do not insist they change anything, I simply inform them of "best practice".

As to the point about gasketed locker lids ..... Yes, propane is heavier than air but not that much and it can easily be moved around a vessel with a little puff of wind hence the ABYC gasket.

and ..... Draining LPG out of the bottom of a locker on a flying bridge could lead to the gas drifting down the helm cable race or into an open window,

 

[Marin]

I don't care how old the boat is, I survey to ABYC Standards (plus what I've learned over the years). 99% of the buyers I survey for know very little about the systems on the boats they buy and I feel it is my responsibility to inform them of the "best practice" (often ABYC). I do not insist they change anything, I simply inform them of "best practice".

That's fair enough. The surveyor who surveyed the boat we bought in 1998 informed us that the boat's then-brand-new stainless steel fuel tanks did not adhere to the ABYC standards for fuel tank materials (at that time; I seem to recall reading more recently that the ABYC standard has changed since then).

He explained why it was potentially not the best material, but then went on to tell us that he had surveyed many boats over the years (this was in the SFO bay area) that had stainless tanks and for the most part they had been trouble-free for decades.

So I agree that informing a buyer or potential buyer that such-and-such a system on an older boat is made to older practices and is not designed or made to current standards is a good idea. Sort of like reminding someone who buys a Model A pickup that, "Remember, now, this thing doesn't have ABS or airbags."

 

[dtbender]

tom here i posted the question on propane conversion we just purchased the grand banks 42 europa 2001 heading south this fall having spent 30 years on our blow boats looking forward too a little tweaking would like to thank every one my first post tried to get in on the gb site but no luck thanks again maybe not a diy

 

[Marin]

The GB forum you want is the IAGBO (International Association of Grand Banks Owners). The url is Grand Banks Owner's Resources While you don't need to be a member to peruse some sections of the forum, you do need to be a member to post comments, questions and photos and use things like the manuals section and the search function. Membership is free.

 

[dtbender]

thanks marin did regesture at that ibago site since then have not been able to get in keeps regecting entry other site went to say problem going on have read tonight every ones particulars on conversion would like too do this as per required perhapson way south east end li qualityplace along way typing and key board very new to me

 

[Capt.Bill11]

I don't care how old the boat is, I survey to ABYC Standards (plus what I've learned over the years). 99% of the buyers I survey for know very little about the systems on the boats they buy and I feel it is my responsibility to inform them of the "best practice" (often ABYC). I do not insist they change anything, I simply inform them of "best practice".

As to the point about gasketed locker lids ..... Yes, propane is heavier than air but not that much and it can easily be moved around a vessel with a little puff of wind hence the ABYC gasket.

and ..... Draining LPG out of the bottom of a locker on a flying bridge could lead to the gas drifting down the helm cable race or into an open window,

Like I said, some surveyor might make an issue out of it.

And of course if you are turning the seat into a propane storage locker after the fact and the boat didn't vome that way from the builder, he/she might have more of a point.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Well, I have got to point out, ABYC standards, unlike USCG requirements are not law. They are voluntary best practice guidelines. There are very few new boats if any that meet all ABYC standards.


As an example, the propane detectors that I have used are mostly worthless. They fail in a year or less and give spurious false positives. I have bypassed them on every boat that I have owned with one.


Does that make me less safe? I don't think so. I do follow the one hose rule, so that there is only one connection to the stove to worry about. My nose is a pretty good detector, although one does have to get down near the sole to use it properly.


The lack of a gasket on a top opening locker is another questionable standard. Sure in a perfect world gasketing that joint makes sense, but propane is heavier than air, right? So why does the locker need to be sealed at the top?


David

Yeah I get all that. But as you can now see, surveyors tend to see things a bit more black and white. And that is all I was pointing out.

 

[BruceK]

Provided you get a flame safe stove, you should be ok indoors. Flame goes out, propane/LPG flow stops. The valve near the stove is good to have. We are not required to have an alarm sensor system with the type of stove. A new stove costs about the same as a good sensor system professionally fitted.
Insurers here require the system to be certified by a gas fitter, from bottle to flame.
It is important to get it right. In my experience investigating the cause of an explosion on a gas powered propane equipped boat usually starts with each regarded as potentially culpable.