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Old 01-24-2016, 12:43 PM   #161
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Weekly Update

The other day I posted that progress had slowed slightly and did not post any photo's. Below is a photo from last week the shows a couple of bulkheads looking aft from the bow. The U shape cut out is the door entry from the pilothouse into the OSR forward. Still a long way to go but its great to be able to follow your boat being built and saving these photo's for future reference.

A close look of the drawings provided by the yard of the salon and galley confirmed we need to make a few changes which I will confirm later this week while aboard the latest 38PH during the show.

We have also been discussing what type of cover or top we should design over the flybridge. We are considering everything from a factory built, fixed fiberglass hard-top to a simple folding canvas style. A few factors we need to consider include the addition of weight that high-up, altering the boats overall appearance, ease of use and cleaning.

John
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Old 01-28-2016, 11:24 AM   #162
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seattle boat show

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I'll plan to be there as well on Friday.
Jim, if you email me directly at N4061@yahoo.com I can provide you with my cell phone number and possibly meet tomorrow at the show.

John
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Old 01-31-2016, 02:24 PM   #163
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Seattle Boat Show - Follow=up

It was a long day of travel from southern California to Seattle (2.5 hr flights) but worth it. Upon landing at Seatac airport I was greeted with temperatures in the upper 40's and rain (better then the last time Mary and I attended the show back in 2007 when the temperatures were in the mid 30's). A short drive to the in-the-water display had me walking through the entrance a few minutes after 11:00 am (right on time). Waterline boats had their booth display a few yards from the entrance where Scott and Lisa met me and we talked before Scott and I walked a few more yards down to the boats. Scott did a nice job arranging all three boats (31', 38', 43') in line allowing people to compare beam and transom heights.

We first boarded the Camino 31' (my first time) where I was surprised and impressed with this little boat. I can see this boat offering the various lines of "tugs" some serious competition due to its high end teak interior finish and overall quality. Next we went aboard the new 43' which did not disappoint me. The boat is basically a big brother (or sister) to the 38' offering the same layout with a second bedroom up front to port. After a little time aboard admiring this boat we went aboard a newly commissioned 38' and settled in for the day. It was great to get back aboard what would be our next boat. Scott and I took a walk outside through the "heavy" pilothouse sliding doors and up to the bow. We discussed some of the changes on our boat including an extended bow rail over the anchor. This was a change I requested to enhance the look of the boat by providing a slightly longer / sleeker look and something that is always difficult with a "trawler" which are usually a little on the boxy side of a design. Scott agreed not so much for the aesthetics but rather the practicality of providing the operator a little more room to work the anchor. Over the past couple of years Scott and I worked very well together with my constant flow of ideas / changes and his evaluation before making a sound decision. Another observation I made while up front was the amount of under-deck storage to the starboard side of the anchor locker we could use for storing fenders and lines. While I would like to see a little more molded raised areas to limit the flow of mud off the anchor I realize its not feasible. We will have to rely on hosing off the anchor using the fresh water wash down up front.

After a few minutes up at the bow (the rain had stopped) we made our way aft and up the starboard side molded steps to the upper deck and flybridge passing by the new location for shore-power connections. I noticed space and depth on the hull side is limited and we may have to mount the connections on the pilothouse wall instead. While this location provides very close proximity to the main circuit breaker panel it would require the power cord to lay across the floor, before the first step leading to upper deck. This is not something I'm crazy about and need to study a little more before making a final decision.

The boat we were aboard had a very nice custom enclosure providing protection from wing and rain. The seating arrangement and mast are the same we will be receiving on our boat. No changes required up top.

We returned to the salon and started to discuss the changes Mary and I are making. Despite being a Friday with on & off rain there was a constant flow of enthusiasts walking through the boat. It was interesting to hear people comment how large the salon and pilothouse were for the size of the boat followed by the overall quality of the finish. I met with one couple from TF and we enjoyed a good half hour crawling around the engine room and discussing their potential next boat.

In between talking with people, reviewing drawings provided by the yard and taking measurements I was able to confirm we still a few more changes to make. The biggest decision is how to reconfigure the standard refrigerator location. We originally planned to locate the combo washer/dryer on the bottom half but decided we would wait on this unit. Even when we lived aboard 3-4 days per week we didn't use the combo washer/dryer often and optioned to take our cloths home to wash. Neither of us liked to discharge the soapy water into the marina despite using environmental friendly detergent. So we now have a large 2'D x 2'W x 4'H space to play with (any thoughts?).

I also had the opportunity to meet with an electronics installer who Scott recommended and has completed a number of recent installations on H38 and H43 boats. We sat up in the Pilothouse and discussed our plans and different manufactures. While we are Furuno fans Scott and Eddie have us considering Simard for this boat. It was very satisfying for me to see four people fit very comfortably in the pilothouse thus reconfirming what I originally thought when we selected this boat - the pilothouse is the largest of any boat we could find up to 45'.

The OSR despite being a little on the small side should work fine for the two of us. Easy access to the island bed with plenty of shelving on both sides makes for a very comfortable room. The relatively high ceiling with a large overhead teak trimmed hatch combined with a direct line of sight through the pilothouse to the salon provides an open feeling and something that should never be under evaluated. Separate head and shower rooms will be nice and change from our previous boats. One item I forgot to ask Scott about was if owners add a shower curtain inside the shower room to help protect the teak wood finish on the door since this is wet room.

Time flew by quickly and before I knew it I had to return to the airport for the flight home. It was great day (even the sun came out) and I'm glade I made the trip to spend time aboard the 38 before ours delivers around May.

John
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:32 PM   #164
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A great way to spend some time aboard and get to bend the ear of the builder in the process. Sounds very fruitful. You might find it beneficial to check with Twistedtree for his real world experience with Simrad.
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Old 01-31-2016, 06:53 PM   #165
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A great way to spend some time aboard and get to bend the ear of the builder in the process. Sounds very fruitful. You might find it beneficial to check with Twistedtree for his real world experience with Simrad.
I'd like to hear twistedtree's Simrad comments as well.
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Old 01-31-2016, 08:23 PM   #166
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My Simrad comments are from about 3 years ago. I already had an NSS8 purchased at a local boatshow and was looking to add autopilot and other electronics. The supplier stocked all the major brands and said 'sure, we can supply you with the items you have chosen, but are you really set on Simrad?' Me: is there a problem with Simrad stuff? Supplier: 'well, we get an awful lot of returns of faulty items'. So I went with Furuno. The NSS8 is now on the RIB or hooked to a sounder in the cockpit if I'm fishing. To be fair to Simrad, the NSS8 has not had any issues.
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Old 01-31-2016, 09:02 PM   #167
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Shower Curtain

John,

My wife figured out a good way to get a shower curtain around 3 of the shower walls including the door of our old Helmsman 38. This was a couple of years ago so the details are a bit hazy. This curtain also covered the worthless seat in the shower because we found that water would leak under the teak strips and down into the engine room.

One thing I do remember is not to use a vinyl curtain. Find one made out of a waterproof cloth or maybe it's nylon. I hate shower curtains because they stick to you and are hard to dry, something I did after every shower use.

If you are interested in more details send me a PM and I will have my wife call you with the details. Of course, don't know if the current boats have the same curtain rod that my boat had.
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:09 PM   #168
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Greetings John,

It was a pleasure to meet you, even briefly, aboard the 38 (you were in the ER and we raised the hatch on you). I have enjoyed your postings here and on the Nordhavn Dreamers list for many years. Thank you.

Regarding the Simrad products, we were very pleased with our Lowrance HDS7 plotter/GPS and 3G radar on our last boat. We had to utilize customer support from the Navico folks, as our touch screen failed. They did some troubleshooting and sent us another unit forthwith. I have confidence that they will make things right if there was ever a problem, and they will receive strong consideration when we replace the electronics aboard IRENE.

Best Wishes,

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Old 01-31-2016, 10:20 PM   #169
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Quote:
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.......... One item I forgot to ask Scott about was if owners add a shower curtain inside the shower room to help protect the teak wood finish on the door since this is wet room.
John
John, our boat is 40+ years old. It has a combined head and shower, with reasonable room. When we bought her 14 years ago, the original folding teak door was still looking so good I have never been able to convince myself it needed sanding down and re-varnishing, even though I have basically done the rest of the boat. The solid teak doors I left, because they were still so good. They still are, after all that time, and the head door has never been protected by a curtain. Originally, in a flush of enthusiasm we were going to put one in, then remembered in one boat we had how it sort of wrapped around oneself and clung, and always got in the way, and was a devil to wipe down, like Windmist above said. "I hate shower curtains because they stick to you and are hard to dry..."

We then looked at how little water (if you are just a bit careful) does land on the door, and how easy it is to flick a towel over that at the end, and how good the surface still was, and we said..."nah"...let's not..
just sayin'...

Cheers,
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:25 PM   #170
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John, given where you are, do you still see this as a 100% certainly of going through to completion?

If not, what are your thoughts? 50/50, higher?
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Old 01-31-2016, 10:32 PM   #171
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John, nice meeting you at the 38 on Friday. Agree the boat show (and sunny weather) made for a great day. We're still sorting out our wants and needs.
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:09 PM   #172
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Boat Plans

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John, given where you are, do you still see this as a 100% certainly of going through to completion?

If not, what are your thoughts? 50/50, higher?
We were 100% certain when we signed the contract this was the right boat for us. As you can probably tell from our posts we spend a lot of time researching our boats so when we do sign a contract we know there is no second guessing. While we may have struggled a little with options on this build, we know the boat is perfect for us and believe our final decisions on options will support our needs. The visit to Seattle last week only reconfirmed we made the right decision. Thanks

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Old 02-01-2016, 09:20 PM   #173
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Electronics & Showers

Thanks to everyone for your input on both electronics and the shower. I may reach out to you individually with a few questions as we move forward.

John

On a side note Scott emailed yesterday and advise the hull will be out of the mold by the Chinese New year. I'm assuming that is not far off??
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Old 02-01-2016, 09:31 PM   #174
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LLC Title

When we last posted about our "decision process" I mentioned we were still deciding if we would place this boat in an LLC. We had our last three trawlers in LLC's and for us I believe it is a smart move. I am not a lawyer and not providing any advice here, just explaining what we did.

Our main reason for using an LLC on the first boat was to legally avoid paying California State Sales tax which for us runs a little over 8% (ouch). We took the boat to Mexico for awhile, had a blast and saved a ton of money. On boat number two despite having an LLC we decided we needed a place to live in SD so we paid the taxes (ouch). Same thing on boat number three (double ouch). So why have an LLC if you are still going to pay taxes? For us it helps when we sell the boat. In all cases we sold our three boats to California residents and by them buying the LLC (boat included) they did not have to pay the sales tax. So we believe that there is an upside that supports us when we sell the boat. While I cannot place a dollar figure on it I know it helps.

So what will we do with the Helmsman? LLC for sure. Going to Mexico for 12 months, not too sure.

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Old 02-01-2016, 09:40 PM   #175
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Thanks to everyone for your input on both electronics and the shower. I may reach out to you individually with a few questions as we move forward.

John

On a side note Scott emailed yesterday and advise the hull will be out of the mold by the Chinese New year. I'm assuming that is not far off??
Feb 8
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:12 PM   #176
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Jimdavi.... Are you also looking at the North Pacifics?
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Old 02-01-2016, 11:53 PM   #177
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I'd like to hear twistedtree's Simrad comments as well.
You could start with the Wall of Shame on my Blog (Adventures of Tanglewood). There is lots of detail on the issues I encountered, none of which have been fixed by Simrad/Navico as of this date.

After 6 months of working with Simrad trying to resolve the issues, several of which I classified as "don't go to sea until resolved", none were fixed and there was no clear path to get any of them fixed. So I removed all the Simrad equipment and returned it to them. It's now exactly a year later, none of the problems have been fixed, so I've very happy with my decision to dump them and move on the products worthy of marine use.

I'm happy to tell more, but pretty much all the details are in the blog (I think). If you have a little fishing skiff, know very little about navigation and what to expect of nav equipment, and are happy with the robustness of products like Windows, then it will probably serve you just fine. Otherwise run, don't walk.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:11 AM   #178
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You could start with the Wall of Shame on my Blog (Adventures of Tanglewood). There is lots of detail on the issues I encountered, none of which have been fixed by Simrad/Navico as of this date.

After 6 months of working with Simrad trying to resolve the issues, several of which I classified as "don't go to sea until resolved", none were fixed and there was no clear path to get any of them fixed. So I removed all the Simrad equipment and returned it to them. It's now exactly a year later, none of the problems have been fixed, so I've very happy with my decision to dump them and move on the products worthy of marine use.

I'm happy to tell more, but pretty much all the details are in the blog (I think). If you have a little fishing skiff, know very little about navigation and what to expect of nav equipment, and are happy with the robustness of products like Windows, then it will probably serve you just fine. Otherwise run, don't walk.
Thanks for sharing. I'll go to your blog for more. Only Simrad product I'm really familiar with is their autopilot.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:17 PM   #179
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Thanks for sharing. I'll go to your blog for more. Only Simrad product I'm really familiar with is their autopilot.

Their auto pilots steer well. I never had a problem with that on any boat. But on my most recent attempt I had quite a few interfacing problems among the different simrad AP components. So I dumped the AP too since I had no confidence that Simrad would fix any of it. My issues may have all been related to the FU80 follow up steering controls, and he NSO chart plotter, both of which were new compared to my last Simrad Pilot. But by that time I was done debugging stuff for a company that didn't care.
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Old 02-04-2016, 02:31 PM   #180
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Our main reason for using an LLC on the first boat was to legally avoid paying California State Sales tax which for us runs a little over 8% (ouch). We took the boat to Mexico for awhile, had a blast and saved a ton of money. On boat number two despite having an LLC we decided we needed a place to live in SD so we paid the taxes (ouch). Same thing on boat number three (double ouch). So why have an LLC if you are still going to pay taxes? For us it helps when we sell the boat. In all cases we sold our three boats to California residents and by them buying the LLC (boat included) they did not have to pay the sales tax. So we believe that there is an upside that supports us when we sell the boat. While I cannot place a dollar figure on it I know it helps.
For a different perspective, I did not put my boat in an LLC. It was not necessary to legitimately avoid paying California sales (use) tax, and I don't see how putting it into an LLC could help, since (as I recall) the use tax is applicable (or not) without regard to the type of taxpayer.

As far as an LLC helping your buyer to avoid tax when you resell, sellers commonly advertise that benefit, but my understanding is that for use tax purposes, a change in ownership of an LLC constitutes a change in ownership of the vessel it owns. The only question is whether the SBE would catch it. If the vessel operates in California waters, it is required to file a California return, and the return will require disclosure of the ownership change (at least absent some fancy footwork). If a buyer gets caught not reporting, penalties and interest will likely apply (and mis-reporting may constitute criminal evasion). It is really the buyer's problem, but I can't see myself being any part that sort of transaction. Then again, maybe there is legitimacy to this that I don't understand.

A benefit to a non-resident NOT putting the vessel into an LLC is that Washington state law allows a longer period (6 mos. vs. 45 days, as I recall) during which the vessel can be in Washington waters without triggering the Washington sales tax.
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