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Old 10-12-2016, 04:44 PM   #661
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Scott: Just rhetorical, don't answer. How did you possibly put up with someone who couldn't make up his mind and all the changes? You must be a saint. lol

I would definitely have chosen the route of you completing the commissioning, but understand why he didn't. He enjoys this stuff, you know. You should start working him right now toward the next build.
Now that you opened this discussion..........

I know Mary would kill me but?

John T.
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Old 10-12-2016, 05:00 PM   #662
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Now that you opened this discussion..........

I know Mary would kill me but?

John T.
Probably won't be the first time she's been tempted but she'll go along once again. By now, she surely knows you have a problem. So, let's not say publicly that you're thinking ahead, but just hypothetically if you were thinking of another boat somewhere down the road...what might it be?
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Old 10-12-2016, 10:11 PM   #663
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Probably won't be the first time she's been tempted but she'll go along once again. By now, she surely knows you have a problem. So, let's not say publicly that you're thinking ahead, but just hypothetically if you were thinking of another boat somewhere down the road...what might it be?
Honestly we are really pleased with this boat. As everyone knows from reading this thread we spent years researching everything out there and selected the H38PH for the reasons we posted. Our approach with boating is similar with cars and other objects - we select them to serve a mission. We selected the H38PH for west coast coastal cruising until I retire, then ship her to the east coast for a few years as we explore the ICW. From there who knows.

If I was to think about another boat it would likely start with a margarita and sitting down with Scot to design and build it. I'm not saying he would be up to it but this is where we would start.

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Old 10-12-2016, 10:38 PM   #664
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Glad you are now getting settled in with the H38, and that it was delivered pretty much on time and budget. I suspect we will be seeing more of them, and there are already a number of other TF members enjoying them.

If I recall correctly, prior to settling on the H38 you spent significant time working through another design which I think was a little larger. Its going back a couple of years or so. What was the brand and model of that one?
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:44 AM   #665
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The down side is that bringing the boat to finished condition is on you, and you don't have any leverage beyond warranty to bring the boat into spec if there are any build issues. All of this is moot when dealing with reputable companies who stand behind their products, but worth noting for others considering a boat build.
N4061: I've seen it suggested that an independent survey be done before accepting a significant new-build boat. Doesn't seem you chose to do that here.

I'm just curious about the thought process and if you had your previous new-build Nordhavns surveyed.
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Old 10-14-2016, 04:40 PM   #666
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Welcome, Scott! It's good to have you aboard and contributing to the discussion of your vessels. You've got some real fans on this site. I look forward to your contributions to the conversations.
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Old 10-14-2016, 06:08 PM   #667
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Welcome, Scott - You are a star.


In my successful business I bend over backwards for my clients and customers. You do jumping jacks while also bending over backwards for yours!!


Bravo!


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Old 10-14-2016, 07:40 PM   #668
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To clarify and add detail to the discussion about our "transfer of ownership" process:

Our usual contract has ownership transfer occurring after the boat has been commissioned and demonstrated to the buyer's satisfaction. Closing proceeds and final payment of an agreed percentage held back is made. In John's case this would have occurred in San Diego after delivery.

John chose to contract with his preferred supplier for electronics installation after delivery, so this would have then followed the closing. Otherwise Helmsman Trawlers will install electronics and other post-arrival items as part of the purchase contract and will consider this to be part of the commissioning process prior to delivery.

After their contract to purchase was signed, John and Mary chose to take advantage of low interest rates and arranged for a loan, which was not part of the original agreement. The lender would not lend money without a security interest (as would be usual) in the form of a USCG Preferred Marine Mortgage. To make that happen the actual transfer of ownership took place when the boat was loaded for ocean transport in Shanghai. This allowed the lender's funds to be released for final payment to the yard, and at that point we correspondingly had a confirmed Bill of Lading. The boat was thus in our control and was insured for ocean transport by Helmsman Trawlers.

I hope this helps with understanding. Naturally the security of buyer's funds and the certainty of a boat in exchange is of paramount importance.

So in most cases the "leverage" that twistedtree mentions is assured by the actual closing being scheduled to occur after commissioning and demonstration. But in all cases it is also assured by the importance of reputation -- delivering on our commitments.

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Thanks Scott. This helps demonstrate all the possible variations in deal structure, and the many things that influence it. These are all really important considerations for anyone building a boat. There is no one size fits all
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:23 PM   #669
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John
Glad you are now getting settled in with the H38, and that it was delivered pretty much on time and budget. I suspect we will be seeing more of them, and there are already a number of other TF members enjoying them.

If I recall correctly, prior to settling on the H38 you spent significant time working through another design which I think was a little larger. Its going back a couple of years or so. What was the brand and model of that one?
It was the Helmsman 43, a great boat. We decided to hold off as our future use of the boat was starting to change during the development phase. I have been aboard the 43 and it turned out very nice.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:29 PM   #670
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N4061: I've seen it suggested that an independent survey be done before accepting a significant new-build boat. Doesn't seem you chose to do that here.

I'm just curious about the thought process and if you had your previous new-build Nordhavns surveyed.
Very good question and something I have no experience with. I'm not aware of anyone personally who had an independent survey performed on a new build. My thought process is we would only build with a reputable builder thus we shouldn't need an independent survey.
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Old 10-14-2016, 08:54 PM   #671
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Very good question and something I have no experience with. I'm not aware of anyone personally who had an independent survey performed on a new build. My thought process is we would only build with a reputable builder thus we shouldn't need an independent survey.
We have done so on production boats simply wanting any issues resolved up front, not wanting to have to return constantly. Also, when building a boat to Class, you get an extensive survey up front.

I do agree with you on reputable builders as being the primary need. I would never get a build done by someone that I thought a survey was absolutely essential. Still we like having a survey up front, have done so, will continue to do so.
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Old 10-14-2016, 11:14 PM   #672
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It was the Helmsman 43, a great boat. We decided to hold off as our future use of the boat was starting to change during the development phase. I have been aboard the 43 and it turned out very nice.
Thanks for that, I had been curious. Yes it does look pretty good. One thing I like is attention to detail - it does not add that much time or cost but it does add a huge amount of appeal and owner satisfaction.
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Old 10-15-2016, 04:00 PM   #673
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Welcome, Scott - You are a star.


In my successful business I bend over backwards for my clients and customers. You do jumping jacks while also bending over backwards for yours!!


Bravo!


Art
Thank you. Working with John to build this boat was a journey -- no doubt. 4.5 years before the order was confirmed and with a few course changes along the way. I just checked my project folder for John -- 809 retained emails. But I gratefully acknowledge that John and Mary were the authors of a number of changes that their experienced and critical eyes identified as opportunities in designing the new 38E. I'm very pleased with the result. Customers like these bring valuable ideas, and it has been a great collaboration.
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Old 10-15-2016, 06:28 PM   #674
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Nice to see a builder caring about not only the end product , but the customers satisfaction in the product and the process. I think it certainly will translate into future orders (as it should). Kudos to you and your team , Scott!
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Old 10-15-2016, 09:12 PM   #675
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Electronics

After a full week away from the boat we returned late this afternoon to find all the electronics installed and the boat washed and interior cleaned. Wow, that's all we could say. We are now relaxing in the salon enjoying a glass of wine while watching our new satellite TV. Will forward pictures soon.

Looking ahead I have electronics training next week, window coverings next Thursday and carpet in two weeks. The name needs to be painted soon, canvas the first week of November. Then we are done. I think.

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Old 10-15-2016, 09:27 PM   #676
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Congrats, John! What a ride!!

Now...enough sitting around. Where are those pics?
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Old 10-18-2016, 12:31 PM   #677
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Cool...just noticed the Proprietor of Helmsman is on TF. May not have been the first builder to popularize ocean passagemakers, but he's the first builder to join our discussion. I'd call that about even!

Now, show us some darn pics of that wonderful trawler, John!!!!
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Old 10-23-2016, 11:44 AM   #678
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Update

After a busy two weeks we are finally back aboard for a nice four day weekend. Two weeks ago we had the A/C technicians aboard for a couple of days going through both systems and changing out the controllers in the salon and OSR. While the yard did a good job with the installation there were a few factory installed treaded fittings which needed to be replaced with solid brazed to address small leaks and few other clean up items. As soon as we had the A/C guys off the boat it was time for Alcom Marine to install the electronics which took one week. Wow, did these guys do a great job. When I checked on them a few days from completion the boat was torn apart and all I could think was "its a good thing Mary isn't here seeing this". I planned for a cleaning crew to wash the exterior and give the interior a complete going through before we both arrived a week ago Saturday. Timing worked out such that when we arrived the crew just finished and we both got to see the boat looking just like it was when she was delivered (except for all the new electronics).

Last weekend we just hung out aboard and enjoyed having the boat to ourselves. When we returned on Friday we met with installers from Jeddy's interior who had our window coverings. It was good to see Eddie who did the installation on our last three boats and we left him alone to work his magic as we went shopping. When we returned Eddie had just finished cleaning up and was waiting for us. The soft blinds Mary selected turned out perfect and really compliment the boats look (she is good). We have traditional Bamboo window coverings on our French doors at the hose and she wanted to replicate them on the boat so she found similar color and look in a soft fabric. We installed six in the salon and two in the PH with a cell blind covering the salon door. They fit perfect such that when they are rolled up they are hidden behind the wood valances.

Eddie also made his templates for the custom carpeting which should be ready next week. After the carpet is installed Mary will add her finishing touches to the inside.

The exterior canvas is scheduled for the first week of November and then we are done - for now.

Yesterday we took the boat out for a nice three hour bay and ocean cruise. Mary drove while I played with the electronics and radios. The Furuno EZtouch display is actually simple to learn. The plotter and radar are dialed in and worked great. I had some problem with the AP (it kept asking for speed) and need to do some reading on this. Robert (owner of Alcom Marine) was willing to meet me this weekend for training but our schedule and desire to have time alone on the boat resulted in me pushing him off. I will be meeting with his son (Peter) who did the installation this Thursday for some training aboard the boat. So far I'm impressed with everything.

We also decided to have a custom mattress and pillows made for the OSR. The mattress that came with the boat is little hard for Mary. We should have it within two weeks.

We are now looking for a custom salon table which we can move out of the way when not in use. I found one builder in Florida who appears to be one of the larger suppliers of boat furniture.

I still feel overwhelmed with everything we need to learn about this new boat. Little by little we are getting there and I have Scott on speed dial which is a big help.

I plan to work in SD Tuesday before we return home that evening and return for training on Thursday. Mary and I will then come back down Friday for another weekend and to take Sailor Blue to Old Town San Diego for El Dia De Los Muretos (The Day of Dead) celebration. Its a blast to see everyone dressed up in customs and all the tourist looking around trying to figure out what is happening. Sailor just turned three months and is adjusting well to an active life style which includes dinning out, driving in a car and boating. She is following in Daisy's footsteps just as we had wished.

The compliments just keep coming from others on the dock with many people asking what the make of the boat is. Our neighbor is the Flemming dealer for San Diego and has been very impressed with the quality, workmanship and overall size of the boat. Many people cannot believe she is only 38 feet. Needless to say we are very happy with the boat especially the new salon / galley layout which provides us a very large open space.

Below are few photos of the electronics. More to follow..........
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Old 10-29-2016, 11:43 AM   #679
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Update

This past week was hectic bouncing back and forth from home to SD for the work and the boat. We returned back home Tuesday after an enjoyable four day weekend aboard. Yesterday (Friday) I met the mattress manufacturer at the marina and had them install the new foam mattress. Getting the original mattress out of the OSR was interesting and took three of us to insure we didn't damage the door or hatch, yes it was a very tight fit.

The same morning I met with Peter from Alcom Marine for a little training and help with the AP. The AP kept asking for speed when engaged. After a couple of hours of swinging the compass and trying to dial in the AP we had to head back in. We plan to meet again next Friday to finish things up. While the AP is working we still have a heading deviation when compared to the Plotter reading. Next week we need to prime the steering system and insure we got all the air out of the lines which is normal when breaking into the system to install the AP and should have been done last week. I'm really starting to like the touch screen, very powerful with lots of options and easy to learn.

A few remaining items include installation of the carpet (next week), exterior canvas (scheduled to late start next week) and painting the name of the boat on the transom (no rush on this).

The boat is coming together nicely and we are looking forward to spending most of the Thanksgiving week aboard followed by another week over Christmas. During one of these holidays we plan to take the boat to Catalina Island for a couple of days.

We added a 110 gallons of fuel ($3.25/gal) last week and noticed at FD speed (6 knots) we only burn around 1.6 gallons which if correct is amazing. Our N40 would burn about 2.2 gallons at the speed (but higher engine RPM with the Lugger and stabilizers engaged). At 8 knots we are burning a little over 4 GPH (the trade off for speed but something we knew going into this boat). It fun and interesting to compare the different boats and engines. Mary and I both really enjoy the extra speed which allows us to be less concerned about timing and using the boat. It really opens up our options and something we were looking for. That's about it for now. More to follow soon.........

John

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Old 11-06-2016, 08:00 PM   #680
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November Update

Last week was a good week with the A/C tech taking care of the forward stateroom unit that had low pressure fault and Alcom Marine swapping out the electronic compass and dialing the AP. I got the Bar B Q mounted and we spent a nice Saturday afternoon on the hook (first time) in one of favorite places. This morning I met with the owner of the canvas company who will be fabricating and installing our canvas. The weather has finally turned back to normal San Diego climate with temperature in low 70's and late afternoon clouds - nice. We went from using the A/C to heaters in one week (dang global warming I guess). There is something special about being aboard in cozy salon, watching a good game on TV while enjoying a margarita as the marine layer rolls in. Tomorrow Jeddy installs the carpet (we had a week delay due to the special boarder Mary ordered) then the interior is complete less Marys finishing touches. That's all for today
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