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Old 07-26-2017, 12:49 AM   #1
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Cancelled New Construction Trawler

I was hoping to post some photos of steel plates being cut in a couple of weeks, but after a lot of effort, time and money spent on design both by me and my shipyard, I have now cancelled the construction of my new trawler. Very disappointing but it was the right decision.

It was only partially based on pricing issues that arose, and mostly based on souring attitudes and my growing lack of trust. As I have learned to listen to my gut feeling, this was certainly the right decision.

If I may offer advice to others who may be approaching a new-build, it's your money and likely a big chunk of your life savings, and as my big brother always told me, you can't negotiate from a position of strength if you're not willing to walk away.

Anyway, time to move on and find a plan B.
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:35 AM   #2
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Wow,
A significant move. It certainly seemed like you'd put a lot of research into it.

Sorry to hear it didn't work out.
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:49 AM   #3
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What was an indicator of your lack of trust , if you don't mind discussing it a little more. The reason I ask that would seem like a huge project with lots of ups and downs
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:09 PM   #4
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hi-ho-hi-ho it's off to China I go



Wow after months of hard work, negotiations and delays I will be flying out shortly to NE China to visit some shipyards for my new build steel vessel.

One is a contender for my present design. Another is of secondary interest to me, but worth visiting since I'll be in the area. A third offers fiberglass from their molds, totally different than my design, but with vacuum infusion techniques and a proven track record, I'm willing to discuss their proposal further.

I was supposed to leave next week, but with visa delays, Chinese New Year coming mid-Feb and this horrible chest cold (yes it gets cold in Qatar), I'm finalizing the date shortly.

I recall some of our Forum members have built in Seahorse and perhaps other yards, and I'd appreciate some feedback as to who you hired for inspections. In the city where I will be building I'm having a hard time finding independent surveyors of small boats/yachts. The big companies can provide services but they are extremely expensive since they are based on ship surveys and inspections.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makobuilders View Post


Wow after months of hard work, negotiations and delays I will be flying out shortly to NE China to visit some shipyards for my new build steel vessel.

I was supposed to leave next week, but with visa delays, Chinese New Year coming mid-Feb and this horrible chest cold (yes it gets cold in Qatar), I'm finalizing the date shortly.

Any help is appreciated. Thanks.
Commiserations. Nothing worse than catarrh in Qater, eh..?
Sorry.
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Old 01-13-2018, 11:16 PM   #6
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Seahorse interests you? And building issues are a turnoff?
Might this be attractive: https://yachthub.com/list/boats-for-...orse-52/211700
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:37 AM   #7
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My gut says no steel
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:00 AM   #8
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My gut says no steel
Why does your gut say that?
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Old 01-14-2018, 07:03 AM   #9
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Why a new build with so many steel vessels on the market for well below new build costs?
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:43 AM   #10
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There are western inspectors/surveyors working in Taiwan, you might do a Google search using that criteria, however, be cautious. In my work in China and Taiwan (working with both steel and FRP) I've found, through firsthand experience, that some surveyors working in the region are reluctant to constructively criticize the yard's techniques or practices other than superficially. At the very least ask for at least three references.

Having said that, and of course this depends entirely on the yard, the boat building quality in Asia is like virtually every other boat building region, it runs the gamut from horrendous to stupendous. Personally, I enjoy working with good Asian boat builders, they are conscientious, hard-working and diligent, particularity when the design, systems, materials and expectations are clearly defined. The key is to thoroughly vet the yard first, then inspections simply become a case of refinement and inspecting what you expect, rather than teaching the yard how to build a boat.

As always, choose carefully. I wrote this column after a project I undertook in Taiwan Taiwan LookBook | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting
and this article regarding boat building in China and Taiwan in general https://www.pressreader.com/usa/pass...81767037404252
And, there are several China entries in my travelogues here Travelogues | Steve D'Antonio Marine Consulting

Every boat building project should be fulfilling and satisfying, with a minimal amount of stress; while those carried out in Asia can, and should, be an enjoyable adventure.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:11 PM   #11
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Why a new build with so many steel vessels on the market for well below new build costs?
The reasons are completely irrational, emotional, make no economic sense and frustrate my wife to no end. It's absolutely the wrong decision and I'm a big idiot.

... I've heard all those insults so many times that I just roll with them now and have stopped trying to defend or justify myself.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:12 PM   #12
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Steve, thanks for the input, and yes this trip is all about vetting the 2 or 3 shipyards in person.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:32 PM   #13
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There are western inspectors/surveyors working in Taiwan, you might do a Google search using that criteria, however, be cautious. In my work in China and Taiwan (working with both steel and FRP) I've found, through firsthand experience, that some surveyors working in the region are reluctant to constructively criticize the yard's techniques or practices other than superficially. At the very least ask for at least three references.

.
Having done a lot of business (non boating) in China and Taiwan and elsewhere in Asia, I'd agree regardless of the industry. If I was about to build in China, I'd have a non-local manager or surveyor onsite regularly to represent my interests. Otherwise you just have to trust the yard. A local surveyor or manager is just not in a position to stand up to the yard. It would not be in their best professional interest to do so.
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Old 01-14-2018, 12:35 PM   #14
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The reasons are completely irrational, emotional, make no economic sense and frustrate my wife to no end. It's absolutely the wrong decision and I'm a big idiot.

... I've heard all those insults so many times that I just roll with them now and have stopped trying to defend or justify myself.


Buying a new boat makes no financial sense, yet very smart people do it all the time.

Building a custom boat makes no financial sense, yet it is done occasionally by motivated dreamers.

Cost is a consideration for most of us of course, but there are a lot of other very real considerations that are important to each individual.

I used to be a runner. I raced a dozen marathons. Racing a marathon makes no sense from a fitness standpoint. The training required, and the resultant stress on the body, likely creates an overall decrease in total life fitness than say training to race 10kís. Yet folks like me did it for years. Not because it was rational, but because it was an emotional decision.

Donít feel bad about pursuing your boating dream and keep sharing your progress with us.
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:51 PM   #15
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Buying a new boat makes no financial sense, yet very smart people do it all the time.

Building a custom boat makes no financial sense, yet it is done occasionally by motivated dreamers.

Cost is a consideration for most of us of course, but there are a lot of other very real considerations that are important to each individual.

I used to be a runner. I raced a dozen marathons. Racing a marathon makes no sense from a fitness standpoint. The training required, and the resultant stress on the body, likely creates an overall decrease in total life fitness than say training to race 10kís. Yet folks like me did it for years. Not because it was rational, but because it was an emotional decision.

Donít feel bad about pursuing your boating dream and keep sharing your progress with us.


Sometimes itís about the journey one gets to take that creates the value in ones head. I once stepped out of Corporate America, opened up an art gallery that made little money, but gave me a PhD in life. I have relied on that life experience more than the previous 35 years.
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Old 01-14-2018, 03:34 PM   #16
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Mako, I can’t add anything helpful in regards to your question, but I do admire your perseverance. We only get one shot, and if steel is what you want and you can make it happen, then I say great. Do you already have plans drawn up? Keep us posted with the process.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:04 PM   #17
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The reasons are completely irrational, emotional, make no economic sense and frustrate my wife to no end. It's absolutely the wrong decision and I'm a big idiot.

... I've heard all those insults so many times that I just roll with them now and have stopped trying to defend or justify myself.
For what it is worth... Delfin was largely a new build since when we bought her she was an empty shell. Something you might consider - once the yard has appropriately coated all interior steel, spray on sound deadening compound, then apply 1/4" acoustical cork over all surfaces. This assumes you aren't spraying foam, which I avoided since when it burns it gives off cyanide gas. I followed the cork with 2" coast guard batts except in the E/R, which was insulated with acoustical foam sheets.

The net result is a steel hull that is extremely quiet, with no condensation. By not using spray foam, I have been able to do some spot welding on the outside of the hull without worrying about setting spray foam alight inside. I made some good decisions in completing our boat, and some not so good, but this was a very good one.

http://www.silentcoating.com
http://www.jelinek.com/product-information-cork-underlayment/
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:12 PM   #18
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I have a nice US built Steel Canal Barge I'd sell in Stuart, FL. 45' long by 12' wide. For photos cadillacboats@me.com / (772) 285-2266 Cadillac
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:13 PM   #19
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Mako

We share your love of new boats in spite of all the financial arguments against. Now, the first critical step is the selection of the builder. Many focus on their quality of work and previous builds, but I think it must go further and include the financial stability of the company and how they have historically conducted their business. You're not just appraising boat building skill but the people you'll be working with.

We also decided upfront that we did not want to get involved building a fully custom boat. Specifically, we chose not to build a new hull that the builder hadn't previously built. That turned it into a semi-custom vs. custom, with existing structure but flexibility inside and on deck. You might look at options that reduce your exposure.

You probably made one of the best moves of your life in walking away from the circumstance you were in. I know that was difficult, but it could have gone much worse had you continued. Good luck with your next choice.
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Old 01-14-2018, 04:17 PM   #20
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Mako

One other comment. You've been focused on Asia. Have you considered Turkey? Many well thought of yards there, perhaps more experienced with custom builds.
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