23' trailer cruiser

[janice142]

Thanks Janice for the feedback. As it relates to the amount of room some of this stuff requires, we found out that we have more storage space than needed, which filled up with stuff[weight] that we brought back home. But we were prepared for a wide variety of needs and that was just part of the intent for the trip. Our next extended trip will be down your way, where I am sure that you do not worry about the need for a radar. Thanks for checking in.

There are times when a radar would be a welcome addition. Thunderstorms and such. It is out of my budget and not Necessary. Nice-to-have only at this point. Now if I decide that I'd like to do the mini-loop or re-visit the northeast I'd be more motivated to find a radar.

Being able to stay offshore following the coast can be a real benefit to radar. And as an early warning of an approaching thunder-boomer would be real helpful. Anchoring, even for just an hour can change a scary storm into a respite and time to eat a meal while the weather is messy.

Free advice: Buy a radar reflector for your wooden boat. I took one of the old metal round ones and spray painted it with a black rubberized paint for a gift. Now the neighbor has an anchor ball. It serves a dual purpose -- radar reflector at night and anchor ball while at anchor. Of course he takes down the anchor ball when he is underway.

Back west of here I pulled off the waterway to anchor due to impeding bad weather. It was forecast on a NOAA Wx alert. I believe it was in West Bay. I saw a tug boat and barge nearby, before I anchored. He responded on Channel 16 to my hail and did indicate I showed up bright and clear. I seem mighty small in the world of boating, you know?

Your boat is a craftsman's delight. She is a beauty. I admire that. Enjoy.

 

[O C Diver]

I am impressed with your superior smack down. Keep boating in those calm and clear days on your condo and enjoying your multi function electronics. I don't know if I would admit that I needed a radar on a clear day either.

Thanks Janice for the feedback. As it relates to the amount of room some of this stuff requires, we found out that we have more storage space than needed, which filled up with stuff[weight] that we brought back home. But we were prepared for a wide variety of needs and that was just part of the intent for the trip. Our next extended trip will be down your way, where I am sure that you do not worry about the need for a radar. Thanks for checking in.

Please don't misunderstand me. This wasn't meant as a smackdown, more of a good natured poke. My boat was setup for long distance cruising. Spent 6 weeks on Lake Superior last summer. While I do run radar pretty much whenever I'm underway, it's more about keeping track of the 20+ knot boats and freighters. When you only go 7 knots, it's much easier to spot those 23' trailerable cruisers racing up behind you, with radar.

Ted

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Free advice: Buy a radar reflector for your wooden boat. I took one of the old metal round ones and spray painted it with a black rubberized paint for a gift. Now the neighbor has an anchor ball. It serves a dual purpose -- radar reflector at night and anchor ball while at anchor. Of course he takes down the anchor ball when he is underway.

Personally I have what I consider to be a built in radar reflector. I have a fixed stainless steel bow rail of just under 8' x 28" tall, tapering back to around 24" on each side of the bow. And its not much less in height as any other part of the boat. So that's about all I can do if I find myself in limited visibility conditions. Its shown back on page 7 or 8, IIRC.

 

[ben2go]

Sorry guys. I'm late to the game. Been having pc problems.


This is the portable washing machine all of my offroad RV friends use. They seem to be able to withstand getting beat around in a 4x4 RV and still do a pretty good job of cleaning clothes.


https://www.amazon.com/Giantex-Port...c00b191da55bf3adef58ad3c490291&language=en_US

 

[FlyWright]

Personally I have what I consider to be a built in radar reflector. I have a fixed stainless steel bow rail of just under 8' x 28" tall, tapering back to around 24" on each side of the bow. And its not much less in height as any other part of the boat. So that's about all I can do if I find myself in limited visibility conditions. Its shown back on page 7 or 8, IIRC.

Are you saying that your bow rail is increasing your radar signature as a radar reflector would?

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Are you saying that your bow rail is increasing your radar signature as a radar reflector would?

Well the rail certainly creates a large metal frame on top of the wooden boat, and a much larger signature than most of those radar reflectors, as Janice addressed.

Heck commercial fishermen use what is known as high flyers on a regular basis, a stick sticking up from the water which is aluminum with a radar reflector and those are read by radar without a thought.

And according to O.C., he can see those tiny plastic and some wooden lobster buoys on the surface of the water.

So my mass should be a piece of cake.

 

[Greg S]

Hey Scratch, radar isn't reflected by mass and it isn't reflected by round handrail or pipe either. Actually it is reflected by round pipe but in EVERY direction with very little reflected back to the source.

 

[janice142]

Hey Scratch, radar isn't reflected by mass and it isn't reflected by round handrail or pipe either. Actually it is reflected by round pipe but in EVERY direction with very little reflected back to the source.

I am a complete neophyte when it comes to radar. Please explain this. I don't understand.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Hey Scratch, radar isn't reflected by mass and it isn't reflected by round handrail or pipe either. Actually it is reflected by round pipe but in EVERY direction with very little reflected back to the source.

That makes no sense. Of course I am no electronic genius. But you are actually saying that some radar return exists in the same reply that states that I cannot be read by radar.


What I am is pretty experienced in the actual use of radar in one of my former life. And so one thing that I do know is that if radar does not detect mass such as a sizable hulk on the water, then it would not be of any value these days with even all the fiberglass trawlers and center consoles splattered about on the water either with similar rigging and size.

But I will be waiting to be smacked down as to how radar can pick up the smallest rubber or plastic lobster buoys and not my vessel, which is a thousands times larger than those buoys that we are told are read by radar. And how does my railings reduce a signature. But those round radar reflectors increase a return.

 

[O C Diver]

What radar picks up is a function of the power of the unit, antenna diameter, distance to the objects, their retun signature, and the settings /software of the radar. Consider that radar will reflect (picture) water in the form of waves or rain unless you filter them out. Radar will pick up clouds when a storm is coming. And yes, radar will pick up inflatable buoys just as it picks up inflatable dinghies. Radar also picks up quite small objects. On the. 1/8 mile range, birds will appear as targets on the screen. While a radar reflector or bow rails may enhance the signature, wood boats show on radar all by themself.

Most people spend very little time learning their radar, or just leave it in the auto mode and have little idea of what it's truly capable of. I've run a charter boat for 30 years and have thousands of hours with radar which makes me far more proficient than most people with it. I guess it's like a true craftsman building his boat out of wood, you can't expect to be proficient with your tools or realize their full capabilities with just a couple hours of practice.

Ted

 

[Scratchnsaw]

What radar picks up is a function of the power of the unit, distance to the objects, their retun signature, and the settings /software of the radar. Consider that radar will reflect (picture) water in the form of waves or rain unless you filter them out. Radar will pick up clouds when a storm is coming. And yes, radar will pick up inflatable buoys just as it picks up inflatable dinghies. Radar also picks up quite small objects. On the. 1/8 mile range, birds will appear as targets on the screen. While a radar reflector or bow rails may enhance the signature, wood boats show on radar all by themself.

Most people spend very little time learning their radar, or just leave it in the auto mode and have little idea of what it's truly capable of. I've run a charter boat for 30 years and have thousands of hours with radar which makes me far more proficient than most people with it. I guess it's like a true craftsman building his boat out of wood, you can't expect to be proficient with your tools or realize their full capabilities with just a couple hours of practice.

Ted

Yes you can tune a radar, or that is what I know it as, especially when going rom different ranges. No one is denying that. But no one has addressed a single reason why my boat out of all others and all other objects on the water cannot be read by a radar. Then again maybe I unknowingly built a stealth hull. But then again its almost like you come here to "goad a non-existent ox".

 

[O C Diver]

Yes you can tune a radar, or that is what I know it. No one is denying that. But no one has addressed a single reason why my boat out of all others and all other objects on the water cannot be read by a radar. Then again maybe I unknowingly built a stealth hull. But then again its almost like you come here to "goad a non-existent ox".

I think you misunderstand my intentions. I agree with you that your boat will appear on radar without any metal reflecting the signal. I also agree with you that adding a bow rails will enhance the signature, maybe more than you realize. Radar reflectors are less about size and more about ricocheting the beam off other objects. Your bow rails will do a good job of that.

My annoyance with what you wrote earlier was that you implied I couldn't see an inflatable buoy on flat water with my radar, I can.

This is your thread; clearly I need to stop being a distraction in it. You've done a wonderful job designing and building your boat. As a person who appreciates quality craftsmanship you have my unwaveringly respect for what you have accomplished.

Ted

 

[Scratchnsaw]

The issue about the buoys begin with the point of navigating in the mist of all of the randomly placed pot buoys in the fog. Even if you can read them on a radar, steering clear plays another role into safely transiting an area without harming the pot buoys and tangling their lines up in the prop. You can have the fanciest radar on the market that picks up every single one of them. But the simple fact is its a challenge to steer clear of such tightly placed groups. That was my only point, a trivial one too at the time of posting the shot.




edited to add that when mounting radar antennas, we were always mindful of the boat angle sitting in the water and its running angle. The sportfishermen ran at a much higher angle, as a rule. So the antenna or dome most always got a wedge under the back end, which did look a bit different on the tops or arches to compensate for some of the up angle of the boat. You could not read targets close in while on plane without one. This was not as critical with trawlers or displacement hulls.

 

[dhays]

Yes you can tune a radar, or that is what I know it as, especially when going rom different ranges. No one is denying that. But no one has addressed a single reason why my boat out of all others and all other objects on the water cannot be read by a radar. Then again maybe I unknowingly built a stealth hull. But then again its almost like you come here to "goad a non-existent ox".

I always added a radar reflector to my sailboats. My last sailboat was a 40’ with a high freeboard and lots of stainless piping in pulpit, pushpit, and dodger and Bimini frames. Then there is that large mast and boom and countless metal blocks and winches. Even so, most sailors know that their boats produce a relatively puny radar return so they add a reflector.

I’m not suggesting that your beautiful boat doesn’t have a decent radar return, just trying to add another perspective. When crossing the VTS lanes in the fog in my sailboat, I really wanted those freighters to be able to see me.

 

[stubones99]

I am a complete neophyte when it comes to radar. Please explain this. I don't understand.

A round object will dissipate the radar signal, and only reflect the energy where it is exactly 90 degrees from the radar source. The rounded tubing would be almost invisible, compared to a piece of square tubing, if you were at 90 degrees to the face of the tubing.

On radar, you measure what is reflected from what it hits on the way out. The longer it takes to get back determines the distance. The amount of reflected energy you get back, the bigger target you're illuminating with the radar beam.

Our stealth craft use angular surfaces that redirect the signal away from the source, and have minimal edges, since edges cause edge refraction and higher radar signal return.

How much energy your boat returns would be called your radar cross section.

A radar reflector is simply a set of metal corner mirrors that reflect whatever signal that hit it back toward the source. A corner mirror is where you have 3 90 degree angle faces with a pyramid like pocket. Regardless where the signal hits, it will bounce off 1 or two other sides and come back to the sender.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Several of you folks are inferring that unless I have a commercially sold radar reflector, than I will not be seen by a radar. That is just not true. If it was true then about 99 percent of pleasure craft would be at risk of being run over when transiting at night and in inclement weather that boat without one.

And moving right along and just for kicks, as I said a few posts back, I have no room for a radar, both inside and out. This build was built around my limited storage shed length and access door height. And as folks say I measured four or five times before I cut so that I could maximize my interior headroom while not being too tall after fitting the boat on its trailer. This is what I have, and a good shoe horn is used every time it leaves the shed and returns.

Cheers and beers,

 

[dhays]

Scratch, yeah I’d say you have as much boat as will fit in your shed.

Reminds me of my Mom who selected a AWD wagon based on what she could drive into her garage with her Kayak on the roof.

 

[OldDan1943]

Scratch, yeah I’d say you have as much boat as will fit in your shed.

Reminds me of my Mom who selected a AWD wagon based on what she could drive into her garage with her Kayak on the roof.

My uncle built a run-about based upon what he could get out of his basement.
LOL

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Well back to boating in native waters, sunshine, sand graveled beaches, four foot tides and launch and retrieve when I please,,, Took the boat fishing and clamming and got a shot of the wet condo finally in the water. And no dinghy was required to get to the shore.

 

[Cliff Meima]

sweet.

 

[ben2go]

Very nice boat. It kind of reminds me of Tom Lathrop's Blue Jacket series. He designed a line up of stitch and glue boats for novice builders that are raised deck, lightweight, low profile, easy to build, and have full amenities for cruising.



24-28 feet



http://bluejacketboats.com/

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Very nice boat. It kind of reminds me of Tom Lathrop's Blue Jacket series. He designed a line up of stitch and glue boats for novice builders that are raised deck, lightweight, low profile, easy to build, and have full amenities for cruising.



24-28 feet



http://bluejacketboats.com/

Well long story and the devil in in the details. In the beginning I had a building and storage space that was fixed in stone for a trailer boat that was stored and launched from a trailer. And I actually got his 20' plans from him, which was cutty cabin and windshield model that could have a much smaller cabin on it than his 24, if you wanted any cockpit area.

But anyway when I looked at the details, the bottom was not wide enough for my interior and the entire hull was way too high to get in and out of the shed door on a trailer.

And I was able to have a longer hull, but maxed out at 24 feet with an outboard on the transom and a trailer tongue on a trailer built for an entirely different weight distribution of a standard outboard center console too.

I also wanted a walk around, which would have narrowed the cabin further on any stock plans. My mate and I cannot tolerate going up thru a hatch to constantly deploy and retrieve the anchor or handle a dock line in high current and wind conditions at an exposed boat ramp.

So I ended up going on my own, from his plans as my previous builds ended up anyway.
The bottom deadrise was changed, and the chines widened further forward while the entire beam on the bottom was also widened. The boat bottom when faired ended up to be 22'5" and the total overall length from the stem to the transom ended up to be 23' 6", and basically a houseboat with a point on the end of it, with almost all the creature comforts as some of the smaller trawlers here. I will add that the cabin length without the overhang is 10' 8" in length. This is usable space on this shorter hull too.


Of course fuel and water is proportionately less. But at trawler speeds I do have approx. 38 hours of range at 7 mph. now and can actually carry another 28 gallons if I add one more tank to my bilge void under the cockpit.

Yes Tom has done a great job on his designs and Egbert's boat is just one example. But we use our boats a bit more than Tom's owners with fishing and clamming as a regular diet. Now that my wife has hung up her working shoes, we hope that we will do a lot of hours on this boat before both of us "crash and burn".

 

[dhays]

Well back to boating in native waters, sunshine, sand graveled beaches, four foot tides and launch and retrieve when I please,,, Took the boat fishing and clamming and got a shot of the wet condo finally in the water. And no dinghy was required to get to the shore.

Looks great in its natural environment! Fun boat.

 

[OldDan1943]

Well back to boating in native waters, sunshine, sand graveled beaches, four foot tides and launch and retrieve when I please,,, Took the boat fishing and clamming and got a shot of the wet condo finally in the water. And no dinghy was required to get to the shore.

Great. Boat's finished now what is your next project? TEASE
Enjoy enjoy.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

Lets see a show of hands of who's boat is finished. I just stopped working long enough to put some hours on the boat during the summer months.

But I do have plans for another project, a couple of feet longer on a hull bottom that I began some six plus years ago. Its more of an open water hull. But that's after I do get the polish on this one.

Of course I am trying to make things work out that I run out of wood when I run out of steam. So far my stack of wood appears to be winning right now.

 

[ben2go]

Well long story and the devil in in the details. In the beginning I had a building and storage space that was fixed in stone for a trailer boat that was stored and launched from a trailer. And I actually got his 20' plans from him, which was cutty cabin and windshield model that could have a much smaller cabin on it than his 24, if you wanted any cockpit area.

But anyway when I looked at the details, the bottom was not wide enough for my interior and the entire hull was way too high to get in and out of the shed door on a trailer.

And I was able to have a longer hull, but maxed out at 24 feet with an outboard on the transom and a trailer tongue on a trailer built for an entirely different weight distribution of a standard outboard center console too.

I also wanted a walk around, which would have narrowed the cabin further on any stock plans. My mate and I cannot tolerate going up thru a hatch to constantly deploy and retrieve the anchor or handle a dock line in high current and wind conditions at an exposed boat ramp.

So I ended up going on my own, from his plans as my previous builds ended up anyway.
The bottom deadrise was changed, and the chines widened further forward while the entire beam on the bottom was also widened. The boat bottom when faired ended up to be 22'5" and the total overall length from the stem to the transom ended up to be 23' 6", and basically a houseboat with a point on the end of it, with almost all the creature comforts as some of the smaller trawlers here. I will add that the cabin length without the overhang is 10' 8" in length. This is usable space on this shorter hull too.


Of course fuel and water is proportionately less. But at trawler speeds I do have approx. 38 hours of range at 7 mph. now and can actually carry another 28 gallons if I add one more tank to my bilge void under the cockpit.

Yes Tom has done a great job on his designs and Egbert's boat is just one example. But we use our boats a bit more than Tom's owners with fishing and clamming as a regular diet. Now that my wife has hung up her working shoes, we hope that we will do a lot of hours on this boat before both of us "crash and burn".

Your build turned out great.

 

[Miz Trom]

Well back to boating in native waters, sunshine, sand graveled beaches, four foot tides and launch and retrieve when I please,,, Took the boat fishing and clamming and got a shot of the wet condo finally in the water. And no dinghy was required to get to the shore.

This is what it's all about.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

We took the wet condo out yesterday in an attempt to catch some dinner while putting more time on the water in the ocean . Boat performed well and we got some fresh dinner in the process. A friend was able to get a couple of shots, one running and in water one.. The boat does get along on top when you give it some "stick". Fun day and enjoyable time..

 

[OldDan1943]

May I suggest, the only time you really need RADAR is when you can see.
The rest of the time, it's nice to have.

 

[Scratchnsaw]

May I suggest, the only time you really need RADAR is when you can see.
The rest of the time, it's nice to have.

I take it that you think I currently cannot see at the helm. I have full visibility over the bow in broad daylight now, even with the appearance of bow up, if that's what you are thinking. I welcome anyone a ride too, even though your hair may get a bit messed up with the front window open..