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Old 02-06-2015, 04:03 AM   #1
Sam
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Raising Rails

I have a 38 Californian trawler. I'm interested in raising the wood rails 4-6". I then want to install a bracket midway between rails and gunwale to run stainless cable through. I've seen this done before. Is there any sort of bracket that will do the trick by cutting the 1" stainless tubing midway and then inserting? Or are new stainless posts available? Do I need to manufacturer?

Any advice or pics would be helpful. Presently rails are a bit too low for off shore fishing safely.

Thanks

Sam
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:02 AM   #2
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Originally Posted by Sam View Post
I have a 38 Californian trawler. I'm interested in raising the wood rails 4-6". I then want to install a bracket midway between rails and gunwale to run stainless cable through. I've seen this done before. Is there any sort of bracket that will do the trick by cutting the 1" stainless tubing midway and then inserting? Or are new stainless posts available? Do I need to manufacturer?

Any advice or pics would be helpful. Presently rails are a bit too low for off shore fishing safely.

Thanks

Sam
A picture would save a thousand words. In general if your stanchion bases are not welded to the vertical stainless stanchion, the easiest approach would be to cut longer stanchions and drill a hole in the new stanchions at the height you want to run the cable. If your going to increase the height of your safety rail, you may want to consider increasing the stanchion diameter maybe even having it welded in place as this would be a stronger rail. The added height increases the leverage of someone leaning against the rail.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:13 AM   #3
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If your rail is like mine...Changing the height may affect the wooden top sizing...thus create some carpentry work...if that's OK with you...then as Scary posted...longer, welded stanchions may be in the cards.

if the wood is an issue....then all around welded rails, top included, may be just as cheap in the long run and less maintenance. Someone, maybe a few here have done it. Hopefully the can chime in or maybe a new thread with that on the subject may produce.
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Old 02-06-2015, 10:54 AM   #4
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Greetings,
Mr. S. Why alter your current rails? How about an extension that u-bolts onto what you have now with a bolster on top? Say your rails are 30' high with a wooden cap rail on top. Make a 2"X4" stanchion out of whatever wood, 35" high (with a cutout to accommodate the current cap rail) put a padded rail running around the inside edge and over the top to form a new caprail, drill horizontal holes at the distance you want to run the SS cable and use 2 or 3 u-bolts to fasten it on the inside of your current set up. No welding, no removal of existing hardware... KISS. This way, you can easily change the height and/or remove if you wish. As mentioned, there will be more torque on your current stanchion bases so you might want to consider additional bracing. TTTTTTTTTT and bolt the sucker on.
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Old 02-06-2015, 11:56 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam View Post
I have a 38 Californian trawler. I'm interested in raising the wood rails 4-6". I then want to install a bracket midway between rails and gunwale to run stainless cable through. I've seen this done before. Is there any sort of bracket that will do the trick by cutting the 1" stainless tubing midway and then inserting? Or are new stainless posts available? Do I need to manufacturer?

Any advice or pics would be helpful. Presently rails are a bit too low for off shore fishing safely.

Thanks

Sam
I've only seen this done on one other California 38'. It was up in SE Alaska and was used as a Charter fishing boat. The rails are not high enough to meet the regulations for commercial charter fishing. The stanchion bases, like yours were welded top and bottom to the SS tubing and screwed into the wood. So they took everything off including the teak rails and had solid stainless rails and stanchions bent and welded up to fit. When the boat was taken out of charter service and sold, they reinstalled the old teak rails and posts. Last I saw the boat was down here in Seattle. I don't know if the wood gunnel cap rails would be strong enough to hold longer stanchions. They're only held in with 3 - 1 1/2" wood screws?
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Old 02-07-2015, 09:28 PM   #6
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36" raised rails

Sam, the raised rails that our 42 came with with are noticeably more secure feeling (much appreciated by the Admiral). I was just at the boat today removing railing for refinishing. They measure 36" from the deck with the cable eye being 12" down from the rail flange. The eye appears to be 1/2 of a link of stainless chain welded to the stantion. There is some give to the rail when side loaded but I believe most of that can be attributed to stripped out flange screws. I will address this when the stantions are off for cap rail refinishing......ughhh!
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Old 02-08-2015, 04:23 PM   #7
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I like it. All of my stanchions are welded, so I will likely start from scratch. I like the 1/2 bolt idea. Also, I do believe that the stern stanchions are angled in, so I will need to trim wood rail in lieu of renting a wood stretcher. I will likely measure and cut SS tubing and have it professionally welded. I attempted to weld one cracked stanchion last year with stainless wire feed (with appropriate gas) and I see it is slightly rusting?

Thanks to you all for your excellent advice.

Sam
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Old 02-09-2015, 11:07 PM   #8
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Sam, Any ss that is welded or bent will show signs of rust at that point. The metal will have to be passivated. This is accomplished by soaking the parts in a caustic solution (sodium hydroxide) at about 140 degrees farenheight, rinsing them with soft water. This removes the mill scale and oils on the parts. Then they should be soaked in an acid solution at about 140 degrees for a time and then rinsed again. This removes any free iron brought to the surface by heating or stretching the metal. The best acid is nitric but it's dangerous for a novice to handle so the next best is phosphoric acid or sulfamic acid. This is a requirement in the food and drug industry to prevent iron contamination of the product passing thru the piping or in the tanks. It is seldom done by small welding shops and that's why rust shows up at the weld or bend site. The better welding shops can sometimes do it if they do work for food or drug plants.
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Old 04-18-2015, 01:22 AM   #9
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I recently removed the port bow section of rub rail that will require repair or replacement. Plus, I was curious as to what structure lay beneath the cap rail. The two flange screws run through the teak and into 1/2" of FG. The outer screw bites into the teak only and passes between the FG and the vertical face of the rub rail if over 1" in length. Most of these screw holes were pretty egged out. I'm mulling over solutions as most of the existing screws were #14!
Upon removing the hand rails I found that they had been screwed to the stanchions in two locations separated by about 1/2". I decided to router out pockets and epoxy in some baltic birch filler pucks. The pockets and pucks have dovetail grooves that form an epoxy lock should the bond ever fail.
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Old 04-18-2015, 06:22 AM   #10
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Greetings,
Mr ADC. Some of the base stanchion holes on our vessel are "egged out" as well. I installed these things:....and replaced the large wood screws with machine screws.

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Old 04-18-2015, 07:22 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by RT Firefly View Post
Greetings,
Mr ADC. Some of the base stanchion holes on our vessel are "egged out" as well. I installed these things:....and replaced the large wood screws with machine screws.



RTF, do you have a source for these? It looks like a possible fix for my stripped stantion screws.
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Old 04-18-2015, 07:49 AM   #12
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Greetings,
Mr. F. I got mine at Ace hardware but I think pretty well any half decent hardware store should stock them. They do have various sizes.
Did a quick search and Fastenall stock a variety of sizes...
https://www.fastenal.com/products/de...:^1/4%22-28$|~
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Old 04-18-2015, 03:51 PM   #13
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Hello RT & Mr.F. I used those inserts to re-attach the teak door handles to simplify the next recoat. Would have considered using them on the rail if they had not been swiss cheesed. I purchased these through Woodworker's Supply and would recommend the mating driver bit.
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Old 04-18-2015, 04:33 PM   #14
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Rail Repair

Here are some pics of the repair. RT I tend to go overboard (pun intended ) on these things but don't anticipate having to address this issue again.
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Old 09-27-2015, 11:19 PM   #15
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Greetings. Been busy working on and enjoying the boat with the family so my update is lagging. The toe and cap rails were scraped bare, chemically stripped, and cleaned w/thinner. The layup consists of two coats of System 3 Silvertip epoxy followed by seven coats of S3 Spar Varnish.
Several of the stanchion flange mounting holes were stripped so each screw hole in the toe rail was drilled out and refilled with FG & S3 Gel Magic epoxy. The large holes on the cabin side of the rail are drilled down into/nearly through the FG. I'm hoping that having the screws penetrating only epoxy will eliminate water intrusion at these points. The screw shanks were sealed with butyl tape. To prevent the flanges from wearing/cutting through the varnish, I had some Viton gaskets made. (Gasket Manufacturer - Gaskets Supplier | Blaylock Gasket & Packing)
Hope this can be helpful to anyone dealing with similar disrepair.
Eric
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:33 AM   #16
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Nice job!
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Old 09-28-2015, 08:33 AM   #17
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Awesome repair Eric!
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Old 09-28-2015, 11:30 AM   #18
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Very nice work Eric . I like that Baltic birch ply . I use it also for drawer and cabinet making , good stuff with a lot of plys and very stable . Great job .
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Old 09-29-2015, 05:36 PM   #19
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Eric

Did the "give to the side rails" effectively get fixed when you completed the repair on the 36" rails?

Thanks,

sam
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Old 09-30-2015, 04:18 AM   #20
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Sam
My boat deck rails were too low. We cut each stanchion and welded in a 9" section, and I did not worry about trying to grind smooth. The welds are visible but it doesn't worry me at all. We also welded in small tube to run some coated SS wire through. Overall height of caprail is now 3'.

I am happy with the result. Over two years now and virtually no rust around the welds.
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