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Old 04-16-2017, 01:13 AM   #21
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Just got done exposing tanks today. I could not lift tanks as the bulging tank prevented this. Had to remove both the night stand and wooden frame. I may remove and replace diesel soaked plywood. Another option is cleaning wood with TSP and the several coats of oil based Kilz primer? Your thoughts on this?

I may install a wood floor, as in the salon, now that carpet is out?

In the attached photo, one can clearly see the top of the bulging tank in between the welds for the baffles.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:26 AM   #22
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Peter,
Interestingly, regular viewing through the fuel sending unit hole indicated a fairly pristine tank with very little rust. Check out the pics I submitted in a following reply. There is a tag on each tank that states "pressure test at no more than 5 PSI. I imagine I exceeded that PSI by a significant extent!
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:29 AM   #23
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It is a 2" inlet already, which should be sufficient. I will assure you that I am replacing my soft and saggy vent hoses!

Thank you.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:34 AM   #24
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I will be replacing my vent tubes as suggested. They are collapsed at the loop I find. Thank you.
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Old 04-16-2017, 01:35 AM   #25
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Luckily your boat runs on diesel, not petrol.That could have led to a completely different post entirely.

Everyone would have been saying what a nice bloke you were(as in past tense).
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Old 04-16-2017, 03:50 AM   #26
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Luckily your boat runs on diesel, not petrol.That could have led to a completely different post entirely.

Everyone would have been saying what a nice bloke you were(as in past tense).
Indeed. And the people said? Amen to that!
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Old 04-16-2017, 11:55 AM   #27
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I may install a wood floor, as in the salon, now that carpet is out?

In the attached photo, one can clearly see the top of the bulging tank in between the welds for the baffles.
That is bizarre, never seen that before. There are some differences between our boats, mine is a 1976 model. My tanks set a little deeper under the bunks and I have a little more space around them, although the cabinet setup is the same.

Keep in mind the access to your shaft struts is under the inboard tank on each side. So if you ever need to replace a strut or realign one, the inboard tank on either side has to come out to remove the 15 or so nuts and washers holding the strut to the hull. Whatever you do, be sure those two tanks can be removed easily.

I'll be a lot more careful now refilling my tanks. I notice the marina has two different size nozzles on their pumps. One the size of a standard car service station pump and the other with a larger nozzle like a home heating oil delivery truck for bulk filling a tank or drum. The larger nozzle barely fits the fuel filler and I can see where you could get a seal between them if you forced it into the filler.
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Old 04-16-2017, 12:33 PM   #28
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I have fuel whistles that sound as the fuel is venting. When the tank fills and the fuel enters the vent line, the whistling stops. It's a great indicator that the tank is venting and when the tank is full.




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Old 04-16-2017, 03:48 PM   #29
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That is bizarre, never seen that before. There are some differences between our boats, mine is a 1976 model. My tanks set a little deeper under the bunks and I have a little more space around them, although the cabinet setup is the same.

Keep in mind the access to your shaft struts is under the inboard tank on each side. So if you ever need to replace a strut or realign one, the inboard tank on either side has to come out to remove the 15 or so nuts and washers holding the strut to the hull. Whatever you do, be sure those two tanks can be removed easily.

I'll be a lot more careful now refilling my tanks. I notice the marina has two different size nozzles on their pumps. One the size of a standard car service station pump and the other with a larger nozzle like a home heating oil delivery truck for bulk filling a tank or drum. The larger nozzle barely fits the fuel filler and I can see where you could get a seal between them if you forced it into the filler.
Note to self then: assure easy access to under tanks. Thanks for the advice. The quandary as to why this happened still exists. The nozzle was indeed the larger type. It slipped right into the fuel filler. It wasn't snug at all when inserting and came out with no effort (I'm sure because of all the pressure). The vent whistle was a great invention. I will get a pair!
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Old 04-16-2017, 04:37 PM   #30
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Didn't you say your vent loops were collapsed? If so you weren't venting the tank. Vent whistles wouldn't have solved your problem. You were pumping a non compressible fluid into the now decreasing ullage space of a compressible fluid. The area of the annulus created between the fuel nozzle and the tank inlet was insufficient to vent the volume of the rate of change of the fill.

The thing is that the vent alone might not have kept​ up with the rate of change. Venting area would be a combination of the vent size and the annulus of the filler neck and nozzle.

If you are going to use a high capacity pump in the future, increase the size of your fuel tank vent.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:35 PM   #31
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I'm still waiting to hear from someone in the US as to why this could even happen in view of the comment above. I can't believe that in such a safety conscious country as the US, they would allow hands-free fuel pumping without a safety tank-full shut-off system.
I just came through California, Oregon and Washington, fuelling the Motorhome in each. I didn't find anywhere that had the hands free clip removed. I was able to set the nozzle and go clean the windows. I saw truckers set the nozzle and go inside the store. This may not apply universally, but they certainly don't have the safety rules that we have in Canada, where all pumps have the hands free clip removed.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:43 PM   #32
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I don't think I have ever had a problem with hands free filling a vehicle...even in NJ where attendees have to fuel you and they ALWAYS use hands free.

Boats a different story.

I hope they never ban it at gas stations...no reason...boats...different story.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:53 PM   #33
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I recently refueled in Antioch, CA and was told by the operator that the state had shut them down for a couple of days because they still had the hands-free clips in place. They had to cut them off and be re-inspected before being allowed to reopen for business.

Private confession: I used my loose fuel cap to hold the lever on while listening to the vent whistle.
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Old 04-16-2017, 06:59 PM   #34
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I believe it.....maybe not a bad idea, but anyone pumping hundreds of gallons of fuel sooner or later jambs the handle anyway...

So in the big scheme of things...not sure outlawing the hands free latch is a better alternative to shoving something in the handle which people do all the time. Tho the shutoff should still work with either way.
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Old 04-17-2017, 04:35 PM   #35
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Private confession: I used my loose fuel cap to hold the lever on while listening to the vent whistle.
Me too Al. It was nice of Californian to use just the right fuel cap size for holding the pump trigger. But I never walk away from the nozzle while it's running in any case.
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Old 04-17-2017, 05:59 PM   #36
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I used to experience a similar issue when filling my 42. If I went too fast it would blow a geyser out the fill tube. There were several issues with the venting. I have the same 4 x 125 gallon tanks.

The first issue was the vent fittings that go through the side hull. They were old and crusty and clogged so I replaced all four with new.

The second issue was all the vent lines were looped. I suppose someone thought that would stop moisture from getting in the tank. Never loop the vent lines. The vent lines should run a path from the hull vent to the tank with a continuous downward slope with no sags and no loops. That way if fuel or water enter the vent they will drain back to the tank and the vent stays open.

The third and last issue was the 1/2 inch right angle vent nipples that are welded to the tanks. These are made of steel and two of mine were clogged solid with internal scale and rust. It's difficult to clean them due to the hard right angle. I used a long ziptie and ran it back and forth until they were clear.

The end result is I can fill at full speed now and no geyser.
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Old 04-17-2017, 10:49 PM   #37
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I used to experience a similar issue when filling my 42. If I went too fast it would blow a geyser out the fill tube. There were several issues with the venting. I have the same 4 x 125 gallon tanks.

The first issue was the vent fittings that go through the side hull. They were old and crusty and clogged so I replaced all four with new.

The second issue was all the vent lines were looped. I suppose someone thought that would stop moisture from getting in the tank. Never loop the vent lines. The vent lines should run a path from the hull vent to the tank with a continuous downward slope with no sags and no loops. That way if fuel or water enter the vent they will drain back to the tank and the vent stays open.

The third and last issue was the 1/2 inch right angle vent nipples that are welded to the tanks. These are made of steel and two of mine were clogged solid with internal scale and rust. It's difficult to clean them due to the hard right angle. I used a long ziptie and ran it back and forth until they were clear.

The end result is I can fill at full speed now and no geyser.
Thanks for the info. Yes, I am going to check all the above that you suggested. I do believe that loops in the hoses are to prevent a heavy following sea from pushing sea water up and into the tank?
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Old 04-18-2017, 05:24 AM   #38
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In Australia, all fuel filling pump nozzles, petrol & diesel, have to have their click on 'hands free' removed, so you have to stand there and hold them on the whole time. A bit tedious, but...
And Dog invented electrical ties and Australians wanting more than 50 litres rejoiced.
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Old 04-18-2017, 07:58 PM   #39
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Not sure your insurance company would see it that way if anything went wrong.Still, you could always blame it on the dog.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:39 PM   #40
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re tank test pressure - 5 psi is around 10 feet of vertical diesel geyser. Did the backflow really get that high?

(10M of water = 1 ATM = 14.7psi & diesel is less dense than water)
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