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Old 11-12-2012, 11:37 AM   #1
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Smile Adding Heat to a Californian 34

I have recently purchased a California 34 and am in the process of restoring it - just a lot of cosmetics, upolstry, carpeting and new electronics.

As I cruise in the Pacific North West, I would like to add heat. I am considering an Espar Airtronics D5 or a Wallas 40 DT.

Has anyone had any experience installing heat in a 34?
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Old 11-12-2012, 12:03 PM   #2
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We had a Webasto on our 40' Bayliner- it worked, and roared like a jet engine when operating!

I understand Espar is essentially the same noise wise. Ksanders recently installed Wallas heaters- they are quiet and efficient.

Sure Marine in Seattle is the Webasto dealer, Boat Electric handles Espar, and Scan Marine are the US reps for Wallas.
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Old 11-12-2012, 01:59 PM   #3
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Go with the Wallas. I've used them on my last two boats. They have worked well and one of the great things about it is your dock neighbors won't know it on. Unlike the Espar which can be heard from some distance away. Very noisy unless it has changed from the one I had five years ago.

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Old 11-12-2012, 02:53 PM   #4
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Do you want hydronic or forced air.

Then there is always Dickinson Diesel stoves.
They too can be made hydronic.

You can get an Espar for around $2,000.00 or there abouts.
A Wallas is about a boat buck more.

The Espar will burn diesel but prefers Kerosene. I don't know about the Wallas in the literature it indicater a kerosene heater. Just another tank on the boat to fulel the stove.
That is why I went with the Dickenson it runs on boat juice.
I have the tank supplied with the return from the engine. When the tanks runs low I just have to start the motor and it refills the tank. Convenient and it allows for me to only carry one form of fuel.

SD
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Old 11-12-2012, 03:46 PM   #5
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Equally important is parts and service in your area. I pick Webasto as parts and service is readily available. Being a live a board in the colder winter its very important to have parts and service. Also Webasto burns diesel.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starwatch View Post
I have recently purchased a California 34 and am in the process of restoring it - just a lot of cosmetics, upolstry, carpeting and new electronics.

As I cruise in the Pacific North West, I would like to add heat. I am considering an Espar Airtronics D5 or a Wallas 40 DT.

Has anyone had any experience installing heat in a 34?
-------------------------------------
I have built in Thermador electric heaters which are fine for all but the coldest part of winter, below 30 degrees. Down side is you have to use dock or generator power to run them. Also keep in mind the Californians were built in the South, mine in Santa Anna, Ca. and the cabins were not insulated. At least insulate the overheads and any areas where there is space. Makes a huge difference in keeping heat in the boat.

Congratulations on your purchase, they're a great boat and it should serve you well
Larry B.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:18 PM   #7
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OK, just to clairify

The Wallas units will burn diesel fuel. This can be either #2 (most common), or #1 (cold weather formula). Kerosene burns just like #1 diesel.

My experience is that if you burn #2 diesel in an espar unit it will soot up, requiring disassembly and cleaning once or twice a season.

The Wallas units are extremely quiet. This is due to the type of combustion chamber they use, and the reduced air velocity that is utilized both in the combustion process and the heated air system. The combustion process on the wallas is a "pot" system that looks more like the burner on a stove when lit.

The Espar units use a "gun type" of combustion process. Think of it as a high velocity air stream that a mist of fuel is injected into. Thats why the espar units sound like a jet engine. The espar units also utilize a higher speed air velocity in the heated air system. This air velocity is what you hear.

BTW, the webasto and espar units operate identically.

Another source of noise which is particular to hydronic systems is the heat exchanger fans. The fan on a heat exchanger is basically a computer style fan, and since the fans are located right on the heat exchanger and the heat exchangers are located near where you need the heat, you hear these fans.

Another consideration is cycle time. A typical heating system as you know cycles on and off as heat is called for by the thermostat. This cycling on and off can cause the heater to soot up. It also uses up battery power since the ignitor on all of the heating systems is a resistor type. Each cycling of the furnace is something you can hear. This cycle time issue is not so much of a problem in very cold weather as it is in marginal weather.

Even if you turn your hydronic system to "on" all the time it will cycle on and off. Thats because the water temp reaches the max temp, and the furnace tries to reduce the output in steps but is generally not able to reduce output enough so the unit shuts down, only to restart a few minutes later.

Generally furnace salesmen will try to sell you too large of a system. Thats safe for them because larger always works, and they explain away the short cycling as part of furnace life.

What I liked about the Wallas is that the new units will infinitly modulate the output from very low power to high power based on the thermostat. That, along with sizing the units properly for my actual conditions resulted in a system that once started rarely turns off due to high temp.

On our 4788, which is by any measure a "big" 47' pilothouse boat we have three area heating needs being the pilothouse, the salon, and the cabins. The low design temp is 20F with normal temps being in the 40's andf 50's.

Using that as a guide I selected a Wallas 30DT for the cabins, a second 30DT for the salon, and a 22DT for the pilothouse with defrost capability. This gives me three separate heat control zones, which is just right for the boat.

and... The wallas units are almost silent. You cannot hear them unless you listen VERY carefully.
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Old 11-12-2012, 06:37 PM   #8
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We've had a Wabasto for 7 years. Has about 1000 hours on the meter and draped out on our trip south. To be expected duhhh.

I don't think it's noisy at all. It's below the main deck in the "hold" just aft of the engine compartment. We sleep fwd and even at night we can hardly hear it. We have a two outlet forced air system. In my case the "salesman"sold us a heater a wee bit too small. It runs almost constantly at 35 to 38 degrees.

I love it. Usually we turn it on as we get underway and forget about it. We remember it's on when we step out the cabin door. It basically just keeps the cabin warm all the time.

I'm WAY overdue for service and this thread is a good reminder to get-er-done.
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:05 AM   #9
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Adding Heat to Californian 34

I put a Wallas 30 in my 34. Very happy with it, we did several winter trips last year including 10 days on the boat on one trip. I put one hot air vent in the cabin up in the corner of the settee base pointed towards the helm door. Two more hot air vents down below, one in the side cabin under the bed pointing across the hall into the head. The other is also on the port side under the v-berth. Cold air return is under the stairs down to the forward area, fresh air comes in one of the port vents to the engine room, the exhaust is routed out the port cabin side wall via the boxed in corner of the settee. The thermostat is on the wall at the top of the companion way. If I was to do it again I wouldn't change anything.

If you decide to go the Wallas route I will answer any questions I can.

Roger
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:46 PM   #10
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Thank you for your post, Roger

From my research, the Wallas 40 DT, looks like the best alternative for me.

It looks like running the heat vents along the portside of the boat should be relatively easy, but what about the head which is on starboard? Is the head warm enough?

Jim, on Starwatch
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:20 PM   #11
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Espar heaters seem to be the "Standard" in this part of the ocean.

Has anyone had any experiance with Wallas servicing?

Jim
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:33 PM   #12
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Espar heaters seem to be the "Standard" in this part of the ocean.

Has anyone had any experiance with Wallas servicing?

Jim
Jim touch base with Bruce or Doug McElroy at Scan Marine in Seattle. Both at top notch at what they do, and they have an onsite service facility. I can't quote their turnaround, but I know it's pretty quick.

Scan Marine
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(206) 285-3675


Tell 'em Peter from Anchor Marine sent ya (we used to be office neighbors).

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Old 12-05-2012, 04:05 PM   #13
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I had a small problem with my Wallas which Scan marine took care of under warrentee. It's easy to remove for service if needed.

Dave N
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Old 12-05-2012, 05:52 PM   #14
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agree...Scan Marine and I diagnosed a fuel pump problem on a 3 month old hearter...they had one in the mail no charge that day. Installed it today after a phone call for some techie advice and bingo...working like a champ again.

While I don't like the idea of boxing it up and shipping it to Washington every time it needs service (none around me on the East Coast)...they are very responsive and the product does have a good reliability reputation.
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Old 12-10-2012, 10:48 PM   #15
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Thank you for your post, Roger

From my research, the Wallas 40 DT, looks like the best alternative for me.

It looks like running the heat vents along the portside of the boat should be relatively easy, but what about the head which is on starboard? Is the head warm enough?

Jim, on Starwatch
Hi Jim

The head gets it heat from the outlet under the side berth which blows across and into the head. This of course does not work if the door to the pullman berth is closed. With the berth door open there is more heat getting into the head than the berth area. I put the main cabin outlet under the settee pointed across towards the helm door, the area near that door can be cold if the wind is from the starboard side.

The 30DT seems to be plenty of heat, you may not need to go to the 40DT, unless you are planning to run a duct up to the flybridge.. I am pretty happy (and so is my wife) with the Wallace. Even our 10 day trip last January was toasty and warm and the outside temps where cold.

Roger
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Old 12-11-2012, 01:26 AM   #16
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I had a Wallas stove in a previous boat, and did not have a good experience with Scan Marine. The thing to keep in mind about Wallace, is that there's only one dealer in North America -- Scan Marine. So if, like me, you don't have a good experience with them, you're stuck. For that reason alone I'd go with another brand that has more than one place for parts and service.
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Old 12-11-2012, 11:40 AM   #17
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Well, I have the DT 40 on order and it should show up this week. I appreciate your suggestions, makes sense to me. We normally leave the doors open to add to the circulation in the boat, so not having an out let in the head should not be a problem.

Please provide more information about your exhaust installation. I was thinking of running back and out the transom, but this is not reccommended by Scanmarine.
I assume you went through the Port hull? How far above the waterline is your vent?

Jim
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:36 AM   #18
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On the 30DT the exhaust and combustion air inlet are in the same co-axial pipe. I ran that out through the cabin side wall into the walkway just aft of the port steps up to the foredeck and up about 8 inches from the deck. So it vents outside but not really over board. I was a bit concerned about the amount of heat coming out there, but it is not an issue. You can stand right in front of the exhaust and in fact touch the exhaust head when the furnace is running.

The unit is mounted in the front port corner of the engine room. The exhaust pipe goes up under the settee berth and then out the cabin wall. I built a small ventilated partition in the settee storage area to cordon off the one end, which contains the exhaust pipe and the heat outlet tube to the main cabin.

I am away for a couple of weeks but I could get you some pics in early January if you want.

Roger
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Old 12-15-2012, 01:38 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I had a Wallas stove in a previous boat, and did not have a good experience with Scan Marine. The thing to keep in mind about Wallace, is that there's only one dealer in North America -- Scan Marine. So if, like me, you don't have a good experience with them, you're stuck. For that reason alone I'd go with another brand that has more than one place for parts and service.
Trotac Marine in Victoria BC is a distributor of Wallace as well. So there is another option to Scan Marine.

Roger
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Old 12-17-2012, 02:00 PM   #20
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Thanks, Roger

I like the idea of routing the exhaust through the cabin wall rather than the hull.

I was thinking of putting a vent under the fridge in the port aft salon corner for the return air. I don't see any way of putting a return air vent in the lower cabin area due to the engine room door?

Jim
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