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Old 02-26-2013, 02:51 PM   #1
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Island Gypsy Europa 36

Hello,

My wife and I are seriously considering purchasing a 1983, 36' Island Gypsy Europa that we are looking at. It is not listed with a broker yet, we have been talking with the owners that are about to list it, but are holding off until we make our decision. We go back to look at it this Saturday and take it out for a trial run.

We have liked every IG we have been aboard and now would like to get some feedback from the forum about this boat. I'm hoping someone that owns an IG can tell us things to look for as we examine the boat as well as give us handling feedback. Our cruising grounds are from Puget Sound northward. We are extending it every year as we explore our way North. This year we plan to go to the Broughtons. Our experience has been with our Albin 25 and with our current boat a Willard 30/4. Both of us like spending a lot of time out and about on our boat. Last trip to Desolation Sound was 30 days aboard.

This boat has twin Lehman's, bow thruster, water maker, epoxy barrier coat, generator, new canvas, teak decks, Diamond glaze windows and electric stove. We plan to switch out the stove to propane.

So some questions we ponder;
1. How does it handle big water?
2. Following seas?
3. What indemic issues do these boats have?
4. Any red flag things to consider?

Thanks,
Keith Olive
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:11 PM   #2
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Our last boat was a MT 36 sedan (Europa) and we loved the size and layout for a couple or small family. She handled 9's in a gale once. That said the IG is a much better boat.

As to the switch to propane that was our plan when we bought our current boat but not anymore. One source of fuel onboard no dangerous gas. The elec gets hotter then propane. Chances are when your cooking you need some genny time anyway so your killing two birds with the same stone. Also if your setup right you can use the stove of the alts while underway.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:16 PM   #3
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Keith, already sent you a PM to yours. This post gives more detail of your enquiry.
We have had ours in 2 meter following swell with 1-2 meter wind waves on top. The swells went under us,boat steered well, doing about 14 knots as they passed under. The worst of it was getting hit on the stbd quarter by a big wave while turning to port to run north up the coast, we got thrown on our beam but she came back fine.
They roll and bounce in bigger seas, the boat seems to know what it is doing and has good buoyancy.Handles best with a good load of fuel and water.
Think I covered 3 & 4 in PM. Sounds like osmosis has been worked on. Envy the bowthruster. Ours has a pseudo trim tab molded into the aft trailing edge of the hull, ply section about an inch downwards full width. I have seen one with 200hp Volvos with actual trim tabs. Idea is to keep bow down. I hope "diamond glaze windows" means aluminum frames. Our LPG/propane bottles live under a seat hatch on the flybridge,as well as valves there, there is a valve on the deckhead in the saloon.
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Old 02-26-2013, 07:59 PM   #4
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Thanks

Thanks Bruce and Daddyo for the info.

Interesting thought on cooking and genset time. I'll ponder that.

Bruce, can you shoot me a photo of your stove as well as the front berth area? Do you know where the propane line was run from the flybridge?

I need to look at both options to have a file of ideas to work with.

Love this forum for real feedback input.

Thanks,

Keith
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Old 02-26-2013, 09:40 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Daddyo View Post
As to the switch to propane that was our plan when we bought our current boat but not anymore. One source of fuel onboard no dangerous gas. The elec gets hotter then propane. Chances are when your cooking you need some genny time anyway so your killing two birds with the same stone. Also if your setup right you can use the stove of the alts while underway.
While propane is a more dangerous gas onboard, not sure I agree with the rest. If the stove is the only propane appliance onboard, a 20 lbs. tank lasts a long time. You have to compare apples to apples to claim electric stoves get hotter....and they don't. Two stoves with the same btu burner rating should heat a pot of water at the same rate. Gas is faster, because gas reaches full btu output almost instantly, electric in minutes. My guess is that your experience with propane was on a stove with low btu burners. If you check propane stove manufactures websites, you will find a wide range of btu outputs for the individual burners.

There is also something to be said for not having to light off the genny to make a grilled cheese sandwich and a bowl of soup for lunch while at anchor.

Ted
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:21 PM   #6
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There is also something to be said for not having to light off the genny to make a grilled cheese sandwich and a bowl of soup for lunch while at anchor.
Of course I agree as SeaHorse doesn't have a genny. We have a 3000 watt inverter that runs the microwave, coffee pot, TV, etc. And with a propane stove, we get along just fine.
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Old 02-26-2013, 11:59 PM   #7
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Inverter

Wow, this is great, I am not sure what size or if there is an inverter on board. This gives me more to look for on Saturday.

Thank you,

Keith
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Old 02-27-2013, 01:27 AM   #8
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Keith, just as easy to post the pics here. If you want any others please ask. Some photo comments:
LPG/propane stove is a SMEV 3 burner + oven. The original was leaking at the taps. Note the later 1983 IG 36 I saw had seating where the stove is, mine has (too much) galley all one side of the saloon, also an icemaker the other side.
The v-berth bed is a good size, and the bow ventilator is right above. You can step up at the sides to access the bed,the end with drawers under is quite high. There is access to the anchor locker at the head of the bed, you need it when the chain pyramids. You can bump your head initially,or maybe sleep the other way.
I struggled with a pic showing space between bed and bulkhead aft,this is the best. The compartments you see are the head to port and the shower to stbd. Remember the separate shower is a modification,the PO who did it says there was a dressing table and wardrobe originally. Shower compartment is huge.
Happy to provide further info and looking forward to pics of what might be yours.
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Old 02-28-2013, 01:49 PM   #9
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There is also something to be said for not having to light off the genny to make a grilled cheese sandwich and a bowl of soup for lunch while at anchor.

Ted
We use the inverter for the quick stuff.
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Old 02-28-2013, 02:04 PM   #10
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On the many surveys that I have been through, if the boat has propane the surveyors look closley at the type of compartment that the tank is stored in and how it is vented. For insurance and safety the addition of propane should be done according to ABYC and other standards.
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Old 02-28-2013, 07:32 PM   #11
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By request the thread creep into food has been removed.

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Old 02-28-2013, 08:19 PM   #12
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Marine Survey DIY

I was sent a link to a great site on a "DIY Marine Survey" that is very well done. I own Pascoe's book and have read a number of things in this arena. Tis site was recommended by "boatpoker", thank you for the link. Good reading and a great link to some projects at the end of the article.

Here is the link,
Marine Survey 101, how to do your own marine survey

Thanks to everyone for all the feedback and tips.

Keith
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Old 03-01-2013, 02:54 AM   #13
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Keith, These are not the photos I hoped to find, but should help. They were taken during the osmosis repairs,amongst other work.
Except the system says there is a security token missing,and it won`t take the report to the Administrator it invites me to lodge. So no photos. I might try again tomorrow.
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:26 PM   #14
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Here is another shot at posting some bottom photos. Ignore the reverse Dalmatian look, we were fixing the osmosis, amongst other things
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Old 03-01-2013, 07:32 PM   #15
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Keith, Final 3 photos. Seems "missing security token" = "post smaller number of photos".
Hope these help visualize the underwater sections. How did the second inspection go?
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:25 PM   #16
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Our boat has a propane galley and a generator. My wife, who is a semi-professional chef-- whatever that means-- would not have an electric stove for love or money. Electric oven, yes. We recently had a professional-grade, dual-fuel range installed in the house and it's fantastic (according to her; my idea of gourmet cooking is using a platinum can opener).

But until we got the new range at home my wife's favorite place to cook was on the boat because of its propane stovetop.

Propane is no more dangerous than anything else if the propane system is correctly designed and installed and intelligently used.

If we were to purchase a boat in the future, even a Fleming 55 and it had an electric range that would be the first thing tossed off the boat (unless it had a Bruce anchor in which case the range would be the second thing tossed off the boat) and a propane system and range installed in its place. So far as I know nobody makes a dual-fuel range for marine applications, which would be the best way to go as far as the cooking aspect is concerned. I'd hate to be tied to the generator just for oven use, though.

So if you end up getting this particular IG, I think replacing the electric range with propane is a very smart thing to do if you or your wife are at all serious about cooking. Gas/propane has far more control and much faster response than electric, particularly in the relatively wussy galley stoves/ranges typically used on boats like ours.

A number of years ago I co-wrote a coffee-table cookbook with the highly acclaimed chef of a 120' corporate yacht. He despised electric appliances but the way the yacht was used propane was logistically impractical. So he and the captain removed the household-grade electric appliances in the huge galley and installed commercial-grade electric stovetops and ovens. It was a compromise but Chef John told me that at least the commercial grade stoves get hot enough, fast enough to work with. But we're talking eight to ten thousand dollar stovetops here.

So if you like to cook, change the IG over to propane if you get the boat. Have the system designed and installed professionally to ABYC recomendations, but make the switch. I don't think you'll ever regret it.
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Old 03-01-2013, 09:54 PM   #17
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Got to agree with Marin on this.
Would not have any other sort of cook top , gas with a wok burner.
Ensure that gas bottles are stored outside and well ventilated, have cut offs on the burners (all marine and some domestic models have them)
Install a gas monitor with 2 sensors, one under the cook top/stove and the other in the lowest point (bilge) with alarm and solenoid v/v cut off on the bottles.
I have a gas cook top (4 burner domestic) and a convection/microwave oven that is a pleasure to use.
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Old 03-01-2013, 10:06 PM   #18
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Pics and stove

Bruce,

Thanks for the pics, just what I wanted to see. Thank you. I am happy the PO did the bottom with epoxy barrier coat already. I did that a year ago with our Willard and it was/is the nastiest, dirtiest job I have ever done. Stripped to gel coat then primed, epoxied and painted. I swore to never do that myself again. Anyway...thanks Bruce. We go inspect tomorrow, Saturday.

The stove for me is a no brainier, propane is in our future if we decide on this boat and it will only be done to ABYC standards. Not interested n messing around. Marin, thanks for the cooking input, we do like to cook and gas is our favorite. Looking forward to propane. We have cng on the Wllard and I am not terribly happy with it, but it works and I am not going to change it out at this point in time.

I have my checklists, tools and time tomorrow to go through the boat. We'll be finding out if we want to move forward or not. I'll post an update after we figure it out.

Thank you to everyone that contributed to our questions and I have taken to heart many new suggestions of what to look for etc.

Thanks,
Keith
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Old 03-01-2013, 11:51 PM   #19
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Keith,I hope the barrier coat followed fixing the osmosis. My PO (but one) told me he fixed the osmosis. Seems it recurs.
The pics are before we (osmosis was done professionally) spent a full weekend machine (with vacuum) dry sanding the whole underwater area in surgical masks, on our backs on planks,working mostly overhead. Ugh! But we got it smooth.
If you fit a stove with safety burners, ie flame goes out, flow stops, you don`t need sensors here. In my case, sensors, installed, would have cost near the price of the new stove, so easy decision.
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Old 03-02-2013, 12:06 AM   #20
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Blisters and stove

I will not get to see the bottom tomorrow so cannot comment on any osmosis yet. Hope to avoid that, but it is one of the questions I have. Luckily our Willard had no blisters whatsoever.

I will most likely go the full way on the stove to meet insurance and peace of mind needs. Solenoid, pro install and get in set up right and trouble free from the start. It is one area I no nothing about doing so have no problem getting it done correctly. That has always been our plan on making any improvement or repair, do it right so we don't have to do it again and have a sense of pride with that plus more peace of mind. Taking the time is to do a good job is more important than getting it done.

Nice to see a side shot of the hull shape. I'm curious about whether there was an attempt to be so similar to a Grand Banks hull. I am ignorant enough to not see how they are very different from each other. Any ideas?

Keith
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