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Old 01-08-2011, 09:42 AM   #21
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RE: IG teak decks

Im from TR too* where did you buy the window tracks? did you have to remove the exterior trim?* like some advise on v berth & cabin window repair
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Old 07-22-2012, 03:17 AM   #22
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I`m reviving an old thread, essentially to ask about the composition of the IG deck substrate.I`ve reviewed some allied threads,without answering my main query.
My 1981 IG36 (hull 39) has the usual teak laid decks; there are enough indications the seal and attachment of the laid teak has failed, like water squelching under side decks, for me to decide re-caulking is no real solution.
I had the shipwright take a good look. He says my decks are foam sandwich, and he seems to be right, it can be seen in the lazarette. He says the teak has been screwed to the beams.
Anyone else found foam sandwich on an IG, all I`ve heard is of is teak blocks?
I`m thinking it could be a blessing,because it won`t have rotted. We`ll need to put fibreglass over it,after removing 10 million screws and filling the holes. Cost will decide whether it finishes there or teak gets glued (NOT screwed) back on top.
An interesting finding was the side decks along the main cabin slope inwards,not where you want the water to go.
Now I wait for the quote(s). Doriana needs to be under cover while the job gets done,which adds to cost.
Thoughts? Comments?Experiences?
BruceK
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:28 AM   #23
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A fellow on our dock removed the teak decking on his IG and replaced it with four layers of fiberglass with a non- skid surface. The end result is better than I've seen most fiberglass decks from manufacturers and it's strong enough to land a plane on. It took him a summer and a half to do it and he told me that had he known before he started what a huge job it would be (to do it to that standard of quality) he never would have undertaken the job.

K&H may have used different construction techniques at different times but his 1979 (I think) boat has a subdeck just like ours: a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich.
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:59 PM   #24
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A fellow on our dock removed the teak decking on his IG and replaced it with four layers of fiberglass with a non- skid surface.

K&H may have used different construction techniques at different times but his 1979 (I think) boat has a subdeck just like ours: a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich.
Thanks Marin,you posted pics of that job previously,very impressive work. It`s because of his experience I`ll get a pro. to do it.
Do you think, if the decks are a f/glass-foam-f/glass sandwich, it`s a better base to work from? I have to work with what I`ve got,just wondering. BruceK
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:44 PM   #25
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Internet search says there is "polyurethane foam" which absorbs water,and "closed cell polyurethane foam" which won`t absorb water, even submerged. Hoping for the latter. BruceK
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Old 07-23-2012, 06:42 AM   #26
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Bruce, My 83 - 32 footer has approx 5/8 inch teak--3/8 Glass-- 5/8 hardwood blocks--and another 1/8+ glass.

I have tightened up my decks a lot by rescrewing loose areas and recaulking. It is an on going process.

My deck has a 2 level configuration-- I am almost to the point of removing the teak on one part or the other. Big job so I am reluctant.
Kind of like the idea of carefully removing and gluing it back. Everyone who trys this seems to give of. Just the labor intensive challange I like. Do I like boating or taking care of boats? Not so sure!
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Old 07-23-2012, 12:52 PM   #27
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Do you think, if the decks are a f/glass-foam-f/glass sandwich, it`s a better base to work from? I have to work with what I`ve got,just wondering. BruceK
I've not had any experience with foam core construction nor do I know anyone personally who has. So I can't tell you anything meaningful about the advantages or disadvantages in working with a subdeck constructed in that way. Fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass I know something about, not because we've we've had to do anything to our own subdeck but because of knowing people like the fellow I mentioned, plus the care and feeding of decks is a common topic on the Grand Banks Owners forum.

John P--- The reason most people don't bother with trying to re-use the teak planks they take off their boat is that depending on how the planks were installed in the first place, their age, their remaining thickness, and their overall condition, the adhesive bedding most builders used when first installing the planks is often still strong enough to cause the planks to break when they're pried out of it.

We have a small "teak deck" project which, while identical in construction to our main deck, isn't our main deck. It's the landing "pad" on top of our aft cabin where you step up to from the main deck to go up to the flying bridge. The seams are shot, the wood is worn, and water is getting down into the cabin overhead which, like a subdeck, is a fiberglass-plywood-fiberglass sandwich. Right now we are weighing the options of regrooving the teak and reseaming it or taking all the teak up and--- if we can do this without breaking it--- re-installing it with new bedding and seams, or replacing the teak with new teak. If we elect to remove the existing teak without breaking it, we'll find out how practical this actually is.
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:33 PM   #28
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Bruce, My 83 - 32 footer has approx 5/8 inch teak--3/8 Glass-- 5/8 hardwood blocks--and another 1/8+ glass.

I have tightened up my decks a lot by rescrewing loose areas and recaulking. It is an on going process.

My deck has a 2 level configuration-- I am almost to the point of removing the teak on one part or the other. Big job so I am reluctant.
Kind of like the idea of carefully removing and gluing it back. Everyone who trys this seems to give of. Just the labor intensive challange I like. Do I like boating or taking care of boats? Not so sure!
JohnP
Thanks John,I`m going to re-check the exposed deck edge in the lazarette.If I redo in teak it needs to be new,thus the expense.I wanted to keep the teak in the cockpit where it is "roofed" over,but the shipwright says I`ll get different heights, water draining issues,and it may look odd. The teak on the flybridge is under a full cover, and the Bimini,and is in perfect condition.
Tried "sistering" the screws along the side decks,but still get water squelching under.
Boats are so many things, a pleasure,a sport,a hobby,a pastime, a way of life,even a frustration, but on balance thoroughly worthwhile. BruceK
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Old 07-23-2012, 09:46 PM   #29
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Tried "sistering" the screws along the side decks,but still get water squelching under.
How are the deck seams? This is how most water that gets under the planks gets there. Despite the screws and despite the bedding the planks were laid in when the boat was built, the deck planks "work"--- from you stepping on them to expansion and contraction from temperature and humidity changes to the simple fact that a boat "moves" and this movement and flexing, as minute as it may be, gets transmitted to a degree to the deck planks.

The end result is that eventually the sealant will pull away from one side of the groove or the other, or maybe both sides. Sometimes this is very obvious, sometimes you have to get right down on the deck and inspect the seam, even to the point of moving the sealant with the point of a knife (gently) to see if a gap opens up along the side of the grooves.

If seams have separated like this the cure is pretty simple--- you repair or replace the seams. Repair and replacement are relativly straighforward operations although it's very important to follow the correct steps in the correct order. I won't go through them here other than to say that the number one rule is that the deck planks and grooves must be 100% dry before you attempt a repair or replacement.

Putting in more deck screws won't do anything to help reduce or elminate the moisture getting down under the planks if I understand that to be the problem you are trying to deal with.
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:12 PM   #30
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Bruce I have sent you a PM
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Old 07-23-2012, 11:52 PM   #31
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How are the deck seams? .....
Bad, especially on the foredeck, fair on the side decks under a degree of cover, reasonable in the covered cockpit (we are a Europa). I started planning re-caulking, a major job in itself, a lot of work is needed on screws and plugs where the teak has thinned too, risk is the problem remains if goop under the planks has failed as I suspect,pretty sure water gets under the planks from the outer edge where water should drain down aft (spilt Deks Olje certainly did) ,so decided to bite the bullet and go to fibreglass decks, adding glued teak on the fibreglass if cost permits, for a certain fix. BruceK
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:23 AM   #32
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On a re-check, the exposed edge around the lazarette opening for the heavy hatch doors looks like foam and not like wood. The hatch hinge is screwed to the teak planks (not the core). While gluing plugs into the thin teak where the screw holes had failed a while back, I thought it was an odd place to screw to, but it is consistent with not being able to screw to a foam core. I emailed Mark Halvorsen, no response yet, hope to see him at the Sydney BoatShow next week,(also Rex from Sarca Anchors).
I`ve got whatever core I`ve got, but interesting no one knows of this form of deck on IGs, me included. Thanks to everyone who responded,especially JohnP with an actual core photo, and AndyG with his deck experience. BruceK
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Old 07-25-2012, 03:41 AM   #33
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The full-length bronze hinges on our lazarette hatches are screwed to the teak planks on either side of the hatch opening too. The screws are actually quie short but we've never had a problem with the security of the hinges.
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Old 07-25-2012, 06:01 AM   #34
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On a re-check, the exposed edge around the lazarette opening for the heavy hatch doors looks like foam and not like wood. The hatch hinge is screwed to the teak planks (not the core). While gluing plugs into the thin teak where the screw holes had failed a while back, I thought it was an odd place to screw to, but it is consistent with not being able to screw to a foam core. I emailed Mark Halvorsen, no response yet, hope to see him at the Sydney BoatShow next week,(also Rex from Sarca Anchors).
I`ve got whatever core I`ve got, but interesting no one knows of this form of deck on IGs, me included. Thanks to everyone who responded,especially JohnP with an actual core photo, and AndyG with his deck experience. BruceK
Bruce, I am amazed there is an exposed edge around your Lazarette hatch. You would think if the core was foam they would have put some teak around the opening first so the core did not show.

By 1983 the edge of the hatch opening below the deck planking is solid fiberglass with a built in gutter system that drains thru the transom.

The hardwood blocks in my sample are well soaked with resin and spaces between are filled, you can see this in the image.

Speaking of Lazarettes mine was a very damp and unpleasant place till I got in the habit of proping the hatch up with a piece of wood when we leave the boat. I think mine has little or no ventilation.

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Old 07-25-2012, 06:44 AM   #35
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Speaking of Lazarettes mine was a very damp and unpleasant place till I got in the habit of proping the hatch up with a piece of wood when we leave the boat. I think mine has little or no ventilation.

JohnP

Ours is a mold farm. Trying to figure out where to rig one of those solar powered vents to keep the moisture down in there.
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Old 07-25-2012, 08:15 AM   #36
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Ours is a mold farm. Trying to figure out where to rig one of those solar powered vents to keep the moisture down in there.
Just propping one end of the hatch up two inches when you leave the boat can make all the difference in world.

Very little rain comes in due to the gutter system around the opening.

Try it. JohnP
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Old 07-25-2012, 09:35 PM   #37
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Thanks guys. Spoke to the shipwright today, he`s sure its a foam sandwich deck and thinks the cost of new teak glued on after filling all the screw holes won`t be all that much more than building fibreglass decks,which will involve changing a few things, like the lazarette door hinge attachment. If the deck is sound he could be right, and I keep the look of the boat.He has concerns about using kiln dried teak which may continue to dry/shrink after laying, reckons he has a source who ages it further after importing, before selling it.Sounds like aging red wine!
My lazarette drains are teak, same as my previous boat, strange making drains out of wood. The center cross support/drain is rotted a little at the ends so water leaks in, fortunately no mould so far, I`ll rebuild the ends so they fit snugly again and leak a bit less. BruceK
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Old 07-25-2012, 10:13 PM   #38
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Speaking of Lazarettes mine was a very damp and unpleasant place till I got in the habit of proping the hatch up with a piece of wood when we leave the boat. I think mine has little or no ventilation.

JohnP
I assume you have an emergency tiller so I assume there is a deck plate over the lazarette that you would remove in order to use it. You can either buy a vent to replace the deck plate when you are not using the boat, or if you can't find a vent to properly fit the deck plate rim you can buy a whole new rim with a plate and vent included. Since we have a twin the deck plate for the emergency tiller is in the starboard lazarette hatch. We bought a pair of new deck plate assemblies that inlcluded a small cowl vent along with the plate and installed one where the original plate had been in the starboard hatch and put the new one in the port hatch.

When we use the boat we install the flat plates, when we aren't using the boat we install the cowl vents and aim them to get a nice crossflow of air down and through and up out of the lazarette. As a result the lazarette stays dry, odor free, and mold and mildew free.

If you don't want to install a second deck plate/vent even the one for the emergency tiller will help ventilate the space underneat

In a dry climate propping open a deck hatch would be okay but up here it would result in a whole lot of rainwater getting into the lazarette and thus into other parts of the bilge.

As it's not unknown for mice and rats to get on boats out in the islands and even in the marinas, particularly those with commercial fishing fleets and fish processors in or near them, we jam a piece of hardware cloth into the cowl vents to prevent any rodents from getting in. (Ask Carey what a rat can do to the inside of a boat if it gets in and can't get out.)
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Old 07-26-2012, 03:25 AM   #39
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I assume you have an emergency tiller so I assume there is a deck plate over the lazarette that you would remove in order to use it.
Yes to the emergency tiller, no to a deck plate opening for it, on my 1981 IG36.I`ve not used it(except to re-varnish the magnificent teak handle and re-paint the metal tube), I`d have to open the lazarette hatch covers to fit and use it; there could be times you wouldn`t want to do that. You GB owners are fortunate; I readily see how the tiller hatch could double as a vent. BruceK
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Old 07-27-2012, 03:35 AM   #40
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When I replaced my decks I did away with the emergency tiller, I could not for the life of me understand how with an aft cabin set up the emergency tiller could work, I would always rely on the two engine set up in that situation.................I know, I know, what if you lose an engine as well as the steering, well by then I would be so far up the creek without the proverbial paddle I would probably be aground!

Bruce if you are going to the boat show, would you like to meet up for a beer, I usually go down to have a look at whats new.
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