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Old 10-28-2018, 10:24 AM   #1
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Proposal for Off-the-deep-end forum

I'd like to make a proposal for OTDE. I propose that it be closed to the creation of new threads, and that the only way a thread gets there is if it gets out of hand elsewhere on TF, and needs to be sent to the back room.


TF is about trawlers and trawlering, not about spew on whatever topics someone wants to spew about. The creation of a new thread in OTDE, is by definition counter to everything that TF represents, encourages, and allows. So why does it exist at all? Well, sometimes well intentioned threads get out of hand and the conversation needs to be taken elsewhere, so it gets moved to OTDE. That seems fine.


But why on earth would we want to invite people to pro-actively start a discussion on TF that is inherently not allowed on TF? All it does is provide a venue for people who want to spew, or antagonize, or otherwise behave in a non-trawler-like manner. There are plenty of other places on the web for people to do that, so I think anyone with OTDE inclinations should simple go elsewhere. This is a trawlering forum.


So what do other think? And what is the position of the forum management?
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Old 10-28-2018, 11:29 AM   #2
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You have a good idea, but faceless ideologues with keyboards will always spew forth their wisdom...if they don't have the OTDE to vent into, they'll end up doing it somewhere else on TF.

I'd guess 99.99% of my conversations down there were with people so inflexibly dug into their dogma trenches, there was no way to have a back and forth discussion where both sides were open to learn something.

To avoid having those peoples thoughts in my head, I had to put the Harbour Chat forum on 'ignore' (OTDE current topic titles are listed at the bottom of Harbour Chat) because there was no way to put just the OTDE forum on ignore.

My suggestion would be to make OTDE a proper forum (so I don't have to put Harbour Chat on ignore to avoid it) and give instructions on how to use the TF ignore function up front and centre on the top of the first page.
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Old 10-28-2018, 11:36 AM   #3
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Proposal for Off-the-deep-end forum

I have heard that OTDE term kicked around here but never visited that area of the forum before. When I tried just now, I only saw one topic (started by me ó whoops!) but was not able to access the thread. So, am I doing it wrong? Does this area require special privileges?

But I agree with you, why is this OTDE area even needed? We donít need more divisive, argumentative threads IMO.
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Old 10-28-2018, 11:57 AM   #4
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You have a good idea, but faceless ideologues with keyboards will always spew forth their wisdom...if they don't have the OTDE to vent into, they'll end up doing it somewhere else on TF.

I think regular rules can be applied to anyone bringing inappropriate content to regular TF, and they can be banned if they don't behave. No changes needed in that respect, just normal operating procedure.
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:06 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by twistedtree View Post
I'd like to make a proposal for OTDE. I propose that it be closed to the creation of new threads, and that the only way a thread gets there is if it gets out of hand elsewhere on TF, and needs to be sent to the back room.

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Old 10-28-2018, 12:07 PM   #6
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Mr. tt. EXCELLENT suggestion! I'm for FOR the suggested proposal! One can still post and discuss "controversial" topics in Harbor Chat with the advisory that banishment to OTDE will occur IF anyone gets nasty. The Cannibus thread is a good example of an interesting topic that has remained civil, thus far.



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Old 10-28-2018, 12:14 PM   #7
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OTDE is easy to avoid.

Just donít go there.
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:18 PM   #8
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I think regular rules can be applied to anyone bringing inappropriate content to regular TF, and they can be banned if they don't behave. No changes needed in that respect, just normal operating procedure.
We'd have to ask the moderators how often they had to put out brush fires before OTDE, compared to after OTDE.

My guess is they were much busier before OTDE because the soap box shouters just can't stop themselves and would do it anywhere.
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:40 PM   #9
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Many forums have sections like OTDE, I suppose to give a place to discuss contentious topics. It is true that they tend to be dominated by a few individuals who think that other people actually care about their opinions. However, sometimes topics that might affect boating don't really belong elsewhere so OTDE is the place they end up. I'm thinking about topics like guns, or global warming, or why Australians believe Vegemite tastes like anything other than what you find in a drain pipe. In any case, free speech has its virtues and no one is forced to read it, so why worry about it?
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:46 PM   #10
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After looking a few times I now simply ignore ODTE. If the thread has gone there it's not worth looking for, to me.
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Old 10-28-2018, 12:54 PM   #11
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OTDE is easy to avoid.

Just donít go there.
Agree. Iíve never been there so donít have a perspective or opinion. The only reason I go on to TF is to exchange info about our Trawler based interests.
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Old 10-28-2018, 01:00 PM   #12
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I have heard that OTDE term kicked around here but never visited that area of the forum before. When I tried just now, I only saw one topic (started by me — whoops!) but was not able to access the thread. So, am I doing it wrong? Does this area require special privileges?
I have the same issue. There is only one thread which I initiated (not in OTDE) but I don't have permissions to access it.
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Old 10-28-2018, 01:16 PM   #13
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I don't go there so doesn't bother me, but share Twisted's view. Why should be create any place for divisive discussion that has absolutely nothing to do with boating. It is one thing if people want to argue some environmental water bill in Oregon but creating a forum for hate to be spewed just makes no sense. And to say it's so we could move threads there when people get out of hand, we shouldn't move those threads, but delete them, and if we have those who can't come here without discussing politics, then invite them to go elsewhere. Many of the discussions have no place in our society, but certainly no place on TF. Can't we get into enough fights on boating issues without engaging in them on political, social and religious issues?

And for anyone who thinks for a moment that words don't harm, I don't know anything to say to you.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:21 PM   #14
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Some very smart people reside on OTDE. But once it got into wishing others were dead, outright fabrications and lies and seeing the strange ways otherwise sane people think - I said enough.

For those who have not ventured there, you should. Kinda hard to know what to accept or reject without a bit of insight on the subject material. Plus it reveals a lot about character of the "normal" thread posters.

All said, Peter's starting post should be carefully thought about. Of course OTDE does represent a revenue stream
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:35 PM   #15
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I remember the days before OTDE.

We threw some smelly tomatoes to be sure and when OTDE started I said to myself “well I’ll check it out later”. That time never came. Just didn’t have the interest. Now I have even less interest. I did make a Harbor Chat post recently. Need to follow up on that too.

My biggest complaint now is that TF is a bit boring. Too many topics that have gone around the horn too many times. And now so many more people to answer questions.

I actually do more boating stuff on FB now. Builders forums ect. WAY different than TF but some things are the same like the notion that one needs epoxy to build a boat. But my forum time is much more spread out. I like the pics and stories about converting sailboats to trawlers. And the super simple boats built from mostly ingenuity and not plans. And some old traditional stuff like Chesapeke Deadrise boats built in an open shed down south.

But I’ve got a lot of roots here from 07 and probably will always “drop in”.
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Old 10-28-2018, 03:58 PM   #16
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Some very smart people reside on OTDE. But once it got into wishing others were dead, outright fabrications and lies and seeing the strange ways otherwise sane people think - I said enough.

For those who have not ventured there, you should. Kinda hard to know what to accept or reject without a bit of insight on the subject material. Plus it reveals a lot about character of the "normal" thread posters.

All said, Peter's starting post should be carefully thought about. Of course OTDE does represent a revenue stream
I saw enough of that in threads before they were taken to OTDE. I realize that in any group there will be some with extreme views. However, I'd rather not know that about my fellow TF'ers. I don't want to know the character that is revealed. I'm not going to change them and they're not going to change my views.

If I want to read about the hate that is so pervasive today, I can go plenty of other places to do so. Boating is an escape from all that and TF should also be such an escape.
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:37 PM   #17
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I agree with Twisted and B&B
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Old 10-28-2018, 04:56 PM   #18
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We'd have to ask the moderators how often they had to put out brush fires before OTDE, compared to after OTDE.

My guess is they were much busier before OTDE because the soap box shouters just can't stop themselves and would do it anywhere.

If people can't control themselves, then they should leave, or be escorted to the door. I just see no reason why we should encourage/enable them, and that's what posting on OTDE does.
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Old 10-28-2018, 05:07 PM   #19
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I remember the days before OTDE.

We threw some smelly tomatoes to be sure and when OTDE started I said to myself “well I’ll check it out later”. That time never came. Just didn’t have the interest. Now I have even less interest. I did make a Harbor Chat post recently. Need to follow up on that too.

My biggest complaint now is that TF is a bit boring. Too many topics that have gone around the horn too many times. And now so many more people to answer questions.

I actually do more boating stuff on FB now. Builders forums ect. WAY different than TF but some things are the same like the notion that one needs epoxy to build a boat. But my forum time is much more spread out. I like the pics and stories about converting sailboats to trawlers. And the super simple boats built from mostly ingenuity and not plans. And some old traditional stuff like Chesapeke Deadrise boats built in an open shed down south.

But I’ve got a lot of roots here from 07 and probably will always “drop in”.
You could not pay me enough to discuss much of anything especially boats on FB. Instagram has some pretty cool pictures and it can be a non-stop pictorial of stuff I particularly enjoy in my declining years. And I can look at the pictures in a larger format too.

Reading is for good eyed and younger folks too, which is not me either. So long threads with a lot of well written stuff lasting pages have long past for me. I do appreciate that people do that the time to create those types of threads..

As it relates to people with strong opinions, well that does not really bother me when it comes to politics. I can move right along and totally ignore those types of posts. Unlike one previous post on this topic, I don't really judge someone because of their political beliefs.


This is different from wanting to spend my days with someone listening to a rant about politics and political positions. That and religion is not something that is worth a lot of effort and time discussing either in the current climate. So its best to let opinions roll off my back and move along to more pressing matters like the weather and if I can get out on the water in comfort.
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Old 10-28-2018, 06:00 PM   #20
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Thus far, I have not ventured to the OTDE. I have a feeling it's like heroin (which I haven't tried either), highly addictive and likely to end badly. Think I will remain ignorant of its virtues.

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