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Old 09-27-2014, 12:06 PM   #21
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MOBY NICK, perhaps you are aware of the fact that you own a boat that shares a name with Psneeld's vessel but not much else. Your pride and joy was designed and built in SWEDEN! His vessel was unfortunately was designed by a committee in the USA and built in Taiwan. They share nothing but a name.
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Old 09-27-2014, 12:21 PM   #22
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I've done a fair amount of work on my Albin-25, (Swedish built in 1976) and am impressed with the quality of fiberglass and hardware. Our ice chest is a pivoting article of wooden and galvanized steel furniture which performs comparably with picnic and camping ice chests of the same period. We now cruise with a much better insulated ice chest able to keep ice for 5-6 days.

BTW, I do have a big sawzall (Porter Cable clone, actually) but so far a 1/4" shaft die grinder is the most powerful tool employed on our boat.
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Old 09-27-2014, 12:37 PM   #23
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Made in Canada

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
I have yet to find any shoddy construction on my Camano. It's a well thought out and well built boat. It was built in Canada.
I have come to the conclusion that with all the imported (Chinese) junk these days, that almost anything you can by that is "made in Canada" is an assurance of superior quality. Nice to know that someone in NA is still doing quality work the old fashion way. Sure wish Canadians would manufacture a lot more items; they would have my business.
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Old 09-27-2014, 12:40 PM   #24
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Here's the real story behind the thread...

Had Albin built a decent ice chest....for MY particular boat....

Dometic is nice enough to market a freezer/fridge unit that you literally cut a hole in the side of the icebox, mount it with 6 screws, run a 10Ga line to a 15 amp opening in a fuse panel. Could have been literally a 1 hour job...and would have been on my last 2 liveaboard boats.

But...because Albin saw fit to not REALLY insulate their icebox worth a dang...not I have to either dismantle the whole galley...or build up 1.5 inches of top quality insulation inside a perfectly nice glass icebox from the inside and refinish over the insulation with some type of covering material.

So a one hour project has not turned into a 3-4 day project and I lose about around 2 cubic feet of space.

I wouldn't mind it if Albin was a bottom feeder and they did crap like this...but they were supposed to be of good enough quality that one would expect did things would be constructed at least as well as the other average boats out there...again...I'm only comparing similar models and similar years.
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Old 09-27-2014, 01:37 PM   #25
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Taken a sawzall or crowbar to it yet? That's the real test.
It sounds like you're saying that unless you've cut up your boat, you have no way of knowing if it's a quality boat. If I took a sawzall and a crowbar to my boat, that would pretty much guarantee my boat would be a POS.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:05 PM   #26
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Yes and no.

But like everything in life..only to a point and there's always exceptions to the rule.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:27 PM   #27
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I think the take away here is that brand names are bought and sold all the time and don't have the importance people attach to them. Companies buy a brand because people think it means something then they set about changing it and not always for the better. Even the Hatteras name has belonged to several corporations. Is there any consistency? Why would you expect it?

The idea that people don't know their boats is generally correct as is the idea that somehow most boats make it for decades without falling apart. I'm not a certain anymore that I know of a quality maker. What I can say is that every failure I can remember on every boat I owned and maintained could ultimately be traced to sloppy work by someone on a shift in the factory. The next boat may have had the same work done differently.
Boats are not high volume products where process can be continuously measured and improved. Just hope the new guy didn't build your boat but even if he did it will probably work.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:43 PM   #28
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The issues of quality and reliability get all twisted together. If something was not done well, or to specification, we can say it has poor quality.

However, if it works as intended for a long time it can be said to be reliable.

The only conclusion from those statements is that the level of quality we wanted was unnecessary.
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Old 09-27-2014, 03:55 PM   #29
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To start with I currently own a US built Albin and the quality is pretty good. I have owned a Taiwanese built Albin in the past. I could barely tell the difference between it and a Marine Trader of the same model. In fact, many years ago when I was in Kaohsiung, Taiwan I observed workers rolling shared molds on metal wheels up and down the street between several plants each building a different brand of boat.

I would not call my Taiwan boat built high quality, but it was tough and got the job done at a reasonable price. My main objection to the boat was water leaking through the teak decks and ruining the inside paneling.
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Old 09-27-2014, 06:42 PM   #30
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My boss used to say "you get what you inspect". I'm finding that very true in most things, especially boats. Who would expect to find foam blocks like that?
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Old 09-27-2014, 07:01 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Delta_JimS View Post
I have come to the conclusion that with all the imported (Chinese) junk these days, that almost anything you can by that is "made in Canada" is an assurance of superior quality. Nice to know that someone in NA is still doing quality work the old fashion way. Sure wish Canadians would manufacture a lot more items; they would have my business.
Not really. We have ourselves to blame for the quality we buy from china. Much of what we get, the importer specified price 1st and quality 2nd. The Diesel Ducks from China appear to be of very good quality and clearly show that China can produce quality products at a higher price. My guess is you don't see much of poor quality out of Canada because they can't compete against China if price is more important than quality.

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Old 09-27-2014, 08:04 PM   #32
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Ted,

In the end, I think we are saying the same thing. When I buy a hose nozzle I expect it to work out of the box and similarly a year from now.
I don't expect it to last 5-7 years like the one my dad bought at the local hardware store way back when, but I do expect to get a couple of months out of it at least.
For me anyway, it seems to have become much, much harder to find everyday items that hold up for any length of time and the selection is often just a choice between junk or another vendor's junk.

Many things can be disposable throw-aways, and that's OK, but a number of daily items would be nice to hold up for awhile like the Ducks.
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Old 09-27-2014, 09:38 PM   #33
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Real Albins were made in Sweden and had no build problems.

Swedish built Albin owners don't even know what a blister is.
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Old 09-27-2014, 10:29 PM   #34
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I've worked on and been around enough older taiwanese built boats that I am positive they are all junk, until proven otherwise. But I suspect all old boats that way, some brands less than others. What is even worse is a lot of the "repairs" I've seen. I dont know how many times I've told people "there is no pour in fix for rot" only to have them regailing some miracle sauce next week. Try telling a krogen owner that the only way you will fix his leaking "black iron" fuel tanks is to R & R them. No miracle goop, ever. The pourable foam you're looking at is typical of someone not knowing how to use it. it is VERY temp sensitive, to cold and expansion will be delayed then it expands to fast and will produce large voids. Poured to hot and it expands and fills good but later shrinks, a lot. It likes about 70 to 80 degrees and around a 1 minute "pot set". Small pours are better than doing one large pour. I've used a lot of it, in all weights. 2 lb is cheapest and most popular, I like the 4 lb better, and have used 16 lb, its almost like plywood when cured and fills every gap and crevice, nasty stuff to clean up. All the ice boxes I've built have been constructed of 4 inches of polyurethane foam board (R-Board is my favorite and cheap) Then if need be are foamed in place, big ice boxes can be subjected to severe stress loading in rough seas. Coming from together is not good. PSNeeld, If I were doing this ice box I would consider removeing it and adding as much ins. to it as possible. If that is not possible I would try repouring it with 4 lb foam.
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:00 AM   #35
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Well, Billyfeet, the only Albins I've seen in recent years are the Albin-25, five of them. Forty-some years ago I saw a larger Albin moored at Michigan City, Indiana. She was about 35-40 ft LOA; an all grey "Trawler" which looked suitable for a cruise to Nord Kap (extreme N cape of Norway).
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Old 09-28-2014, 09:15 AM   #36
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My point exactly....looks can be deceiving....even the owner of that old Albin may not have known the true build quality of that boat.

As to what's under your paneling, inside your glassed over stringers, etc...etc...could be something even the manufacturer would be surprised at....but maybe not the daily worker or even his super.

As they say...a good trim man can make up for a lousy rough carpenter.

I was surprised to hear OCDiver say that about a Cherubini...in my circles...Cherubini's rep beats all but a few brands we see tossed around here for quality...and again ...cosmetics covering poor workmanship/design/construction detail.

Though his, nor my boat won't fall apart in normal service...I just giggle when someone says "man...those ******'s are built like tanks" and immediately know his total knowledge of that brand of boats is based on his buddies lack of knowledge and urban boating myth.

And I'm not talking out my a** like I know some are drooling to prove. I have taken a hull section from some boat like a Shamrock often described as a "tank" and showed a similar piece of hull from some POS that just got smashed up and dropped in a dumpster...same layup.

Here's a pics of a Shamrock (previous company I worked for) that I rebuilt the bow on after it was crushed by a barge. Goes to show that a boat can be dismantled by many means and rebuilt better than new.
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Old 09-28-2014, 11:51 AM   #37
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So, to recap; I bought an old Albin built in Sweden four decades ago, because my search across the internet for a low-power Diesel Cruiser disclosed nothing but glowing opinions about the Albin-25.

You, OTROH, having what seems considerable experience in the building of boats, chose an Albin built in China, and are now disappointed in its quality. That seems to have been a rather dumb move on your part.
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Old 09-28-2014, 12:07 PM   #38
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So, to recap; I bought an old Albin built in Sweden four decades ago, because my search across the internet for a low-power Diesel Cruiser disclosed nothing but glowing opinions about the Albin-25.

You, OTROH, having what seems considerable experience in the building of boats, chose an Albin built in China, and are now disappointed in its quality. That seems to have been a rather dumb move on your part.
You know nothing about me or my economic decisions...and why they had to be made.

Calling my purchase dumb after your posts that lacked the oversight that there are different models., builders, years, etc. in many a manufacturer..instead of just taking in my post of that 18 inches of foam in dead space with an air gap in between the foam and the icebox is poor construction, it seems that the shoe in on the other foot. Especially if I got it at the right price and after correcting the manufacturer's flubs...may sell it at a handsome profit.



I have made the point (s) I wanted to make...especially the point that until you tear into a boat, public opinion is usually brand blinded....so before brand loyal types get too out of hand......
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Old 09-28-2014, 01:10 PM   #39
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I like bumping heads with ps, but this time I fully concur. Even some of the most highly revered boats built by supposedly high end builders make me shake my head and wonder what they were thinking when I get behind the "pretty" and into the real structure. Just last week I helped a fellow captain with yearly maintenance (bottom paint, zinks, etc.) and when I looked at his 1 year old props I had to ask what the problem was. He thought it was electrolisis but after closer inspection it turned out to be severe cavitation causing implosion craters. His props are junk. This is on a custom 40 foot offshore skiff built by one of the best builders in south Louisiana. Twin 450 Cummins c series engines, 30 x 30 4 blade nibral props (expensive ???). The welder that built the V-struts used 5/8 by 4 inch stainless strap for the strut legs,,, and left them square edged. No NACA section whatsoever. The resulting airation causes cavitation at higher speeds that this boat normally runs at. The props are in shallow tunnells with not enough clearance to the hull which masks the problem. The right size props and about an hour with a grinder on the struts would have saved him 3 sets of props. VERY poor design and inexusable from a respected builder. The industry is rife with things like this.
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Old 09-28-2014, 03:47 PM   #40
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Moby Nick, I just wanted to explain the situation concerning the ALBIN name. You seemed to be upset that the "good name" of your 25ft. Swedish built boat was being challenged by psneld. I hope that the knowledge that one ALBIN is not like all others makes you rest easy!
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