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Old 01-01-2016, 09:22 PM   #1
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Whaler 110 Sport, too heavy?

I got a good deal on an '81 Whaler 110 Sport with an older Johnson 28SPL 2 stroke. The idea was to replace our very leaky old Avon RIB with a hard dink, it's just too difficult to get the big, fat, old Labrador into the inflatable. I'm a bit concerned about the extra weight, though. The specs I found online show the hull weight at 250 pounds, which sounds a bit low to me. Plus another 120something on the OB, and I'm probably replacing it with a Tohatsu 20hp 4 stroke which weighs in at a chunky 136. We store the dink on the boat deck over the aft, and it's pretty high up, about 12 feet off the water. I'm concerned that much weight, up that high, is going to put a hell of a lever-arm on the boat and might cause problems in rough water. The boat is a Californian 43 Cockpit, you can see how high the boat deck is in the picture. The davit crane is rated at 1000lbs, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I'll have to build a new cradle. Anyone here have experience with a heavier dink on the boat deck? Problems in rough water? I'd rather not tow if possible, though it's an option, but it will have to be in the cradle at the marina. Just not enough room in our slip to leave it in the water.
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:37 PM   #2
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Three years ago I purchased a Whaler 110 Sport with a 25 hp Mercury 4 stroke. Mine is a 2013 model and is much heavier than the older one you describe. It weighs in at about 650 pounds. My crane is rated at 800 pound capacity. I changed the crane motor to a new one with a 3,000 pound pull rating and removed the galvanized steel cable and replaced it with Dyneema. I also had a cradle built that was templated to fit the bottom contours of the Whaler. You can see the Whaler in my avatar if you look real close.

I was concerned as you are about the effect of the weight up on the boat deck. I reasoned that it was not much different than having 3 adults up there. But I digress. We live aboard and travel from CT to FL and back each spring and fall. We have had some rough weather at times. The good news is that I don't feel any difference in the handling or stability of the boat. From a physics standpoint I know there must be a difference but I don't feel it. I've been very happy with our set up and love the Whaler.
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:50 PM   #3
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I got a good deal on an '81 Whaler 110 Sport with an older Johnson 28SPL 2 stroke. The idea was to replace our very leaky old Avon RIB with a hard dink, it's just too difficult to get the big, fat, old Labrador into the inflatable. I'm a bit concerned about the extra weight, though. The specs I found online show the hull weight at 250 pounds, which sounds a bit low to me. Plus another 120something on the OB, and I'm probably replacing it with a Tohatsu 20hp 4 stroke which weighs in at a chunky 136. We store the dink on the boat deck over the aft, and it's pretty high up, about 12 feet off the water. I'm concerned that much weight, up that high, is going to put a hell of a lever-arm on the boat and might cause problems in rough water. The boat is a Californian 43 Cockpit, you can see how high the boat deck is in the picture. The davit crane is rated at 1000lbs, so that shouldn't be a problem, but I'll have to build a new cradle. Anyone here have experience with a heavier dink on the boat deck? Problems in rough water? I'd rather not tow if possible, though it's an option, but it will have to be in the cradle at the marina. Just not enough room in our slip to leave it in the water.
The weight of a new 110 is 460 lbs. I can't imagine they were that much lighter in 1981, but could be I guess. That would push weight to the 600 lb range with the engine, probably 700 with gear and fuel.
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:51 PM   #4
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The weight of a new 110 is 460 lbs. I can't imagine they were that much lighter in 1981, but could be I guess. That would push weight to the 600 lb range with the engine, probably 700 with gear and fuel.
Yes, they were that much lighter then. Hull shape is different too.
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Old 01-01-2016, 09:56 PM   #5
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Yes, they were that much lighter then. Hull shape is different too.
Then if his weight is right, I wouldn't be concerned about the impact on ride or rough water issues. That's not a huge difference vs. a similarly sized Rib.
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Old 01-01-2016, 10:02 PM   #6
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Yeah, 460 is the figure I found on the Boston Whaler site. I'll take it down and weigh it on the trailer and try to calculate the total weight. Not much historical info on their site, I might give them a call.

Given that the Californian weighs in at 32,000 I guess another 600 isn't going to capsize it.

I'm thinking I might add a couple of additional supports for the boat deck, I could put two SS poles in forward, near the ladder to the fly bridge, without taking up much usable space on the aft deck. Maybe replacing the crane motor and cable is also a good idea.
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:23 AM   #7
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Hugh Mc

That is a very high "boat deck." Think moment arm. The weight of the parent boat is a small part of the stability calculation. Where the weight is located is a much bigger part. Including me, lots of internet advice, I've not seen any NAs weigh in on your question.

Why not place the dinghy on the stern? Very common arrangement. And you would lower around 800 total pounds 8 feet or so. That is a lot of CG lowering.
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:21 AM   #8
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That's similar to my quandry. I have a friendly right of first refusal on an early 1980s Boston Whaler 11 footer that my best friend owns but hasn't started restoring. It comes with a 77 lb 15hp Merc 2 stroke tiller model that I'm running now with my Achilles and it runs great. I found it for sale by another friend but couldn't get the Budget and Finance Dept (BFD) approval from the Admiral, so I passed it to my buddy.

I'd like to revarnish and install the heretofore removed stbd helm. The motor might need some modification for steering cables and maybe an electric start. The photos below are not mine, but I'd like it to look something like this with a Merc 15.



The engine is close enough to allow for pull start. This would allow for a simple electrical system with solar charging for lights and electronics only.


I was advised 400 lbs for the hull is a good estimate. Weighing it sounds like a great plan. I'd have to carry it on Weaver davits on the swimstep when I'm not fishing. I can install a come-along or a pulley system to hoist it to vertical. If I need it off the transom for fishing, I have room in my slip to store it in the water. My swimstep, while narrow, is stout enough in my estimation, to carry the dink in our relatively sheltered waters of the SF Bay and CA Delta region.

My 1977 34 Californian is listed as 18K displacement. I asked for its weight in the Travelift during my recent haul and launch and it came in right at 24000 lbs. I suspect your 43 weighs much more than 32K.

I think it'd be a kick to have a nimble, fast dink. GFC's posts have inspired me to pursue the fun side of speed again.
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Old 01-02-2016, 01:39 AM   #9
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Hugh Mc

That is a very high "boat deck." Think moment arm. The weight of the parent boat is a small part of the stability calculation. Where the weight is located is a much bigger part. Including me, lots of internet advice, I've not seen any NAs weigh in on your question.

Why not place the dinghy on the stern? Very common arrangement. And you would lower around 800 total pounds 8 feet or so. That is a lot of CG lowering.
While you lower the weight, you move it well back too. I think mounting the Whaler on the stern has more challenges than up top. A lot to me depends on actual weight. If the total package comes in under 600 pounds then I would think up top works pretty well. If it was 800 pounds I would definitely not put it up top as I don't like to exceed 80% of the rated crane and feel like the crane was probably sized at an appropriate limit for the boat.

Note that there are two different Whalers that are and were offered, one the Super Scout and one the Tender. In 1981, they were called Scout and Standard. I also found a weight for the Scout on NADA at 250 pounds. The beam was 6" narrower than today. So, the dry weight is somewhere between 400 and 600 pounds. With fuel and gear somewhere between 500 and 750 pounds. I'm thinking under 600 but weighing is the only way to know.
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Old 01-02-2016, 03:59 AM   #10
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Although the extra weight aloft is extra weight where you don't really want it, I would be more concerned that the Davit and supporting structure can handle it from a safety point of view when lifting. Placing a stronger winch and adding Dynema is positive, but be sure your Davit is rated to the weight and that the structure it is connected/ supported by is Capable of the extra load, especially when you initially pull the dinghy off the water, as they will suck to the water and create additional strain on the gear.

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Old 01-02-2016, 08:37 AM   #11
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Lots of information here:
Classic Whaler: Boston Whaler: Reference
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:07 AM   #12
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While you lower the weight, you move it well back too. I think mounting the Whaler on the stern has more challenges than up top. A lot to me depends on actual weight. If the total package comes in under 600 pounds then I would think up top works pretty well. If it was 800 pounds I would definitely not put it up top as I don't like to exceed 80% of the rated crane and feel like the crane was probably sized at an appropriate limit for the boat.

Note that there are two different Whalers that are and were offered, one the Super Scout and one the Tender. In 1981, they were called Scout and Standard. I also found a weight for the Scout on NADA at 250 pounds. The beam was 6" narrower than today. So, the dry weight is somewhere between 400 and 600 pounds. With fuel and gear somewhere between 500 and 750 pounds. I'm thinking under 600 but weighing is the only way to know.
Don't forget the weight of the davit, cradle and misc gear. I grew up sailing offshore where every pound moved from the masts or deck to a lower location were inventoried and essential steps. Buying a nice dinghy is one thing, placing it very high aloft another. The OP was right to ask, now for some science - Tad are you here?
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:15 AM   #13
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Admittedly the Hatteras 56MY is a much bigger boat , 74,000# dry and 18'2" wide, 16' to the boat deck, but we carried our 2005 130 Sport up there happily in all kinds of conditions for 6 1/2 years. Our Whaler weighed in at about 1000 lbs with all our stuff on it and fully fueled up. We had occasion to tow it quite a bit (it loaded off the starboard side and there was a finger pier there in the marina we settled into once we stopped cruising full time; we liked using it when docked) and I never noticed a difference in the handling of the boat one way or the other. They tow really nicely, by the way.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:12 AM   #14
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Hugh Mc

That is a very high "boat deck." Think moment arm. The weight of the parent boat is a small part of the stability calculation. Where the weight is located is a much bigger part. Including me, lots of internet advice, I've not seen any NAs weigh in on your question.

Why not place the dinghy on the stern? Very common arrangement. And you would lower around 800 total pounds 8 feet or so. That is a lot of CG lowering.
I agree that before I put that kind of weight aloft, I'd want the advice of an NA. This is totally anecdotal, but a year or two ago somebody posted on the Defever Forum that they had asked Art Defever about keeping a dinghy weighing several hundred pounds on the "boat deck" (actually the roof of the sundeck) of a Defever 44 or 44+5. Art reportedly told him it would not present stability problems in most sea conditions. I'm considering carrying a Livingston 10, which I think I can hold to under 400 lbs all in, on our boat deck. I consulted Wilson Lin, the current builder of Defevers, who recommended adding support to the deck and beefing up the davit. Otherwise, he said he knows of several 44's which are over 42,000 lbs dry weight, carrying that much weight aloft. Feeling a bit better about it, but not finished researching.
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Old 01-02-2016, 11:40 AM   #15
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@Flywright - that's exactly my Whaler, without the helm. Looks like my outboard, too.

Looks like I need to do a couple of things. First find the actual weight of the boat. The link folivier posted is where I got the 250lb hull weight figure, but that just doesn't seem right to me given how heavy it feels on it's trailer. Second I need the total weight of the current RIB and O/B. Last but not least find an NA.

Anybody in Southwest Florida know any NAs? Preferably one who would work for grilled mahi and beer? I'll ask around the marina, somebody must know somebody somewhere.
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Old 01-02-2016, 12:53 PM   #16
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Aren't Whalers great! I don't have an answer to your question but will be watching this thread to see how it progresses.
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Old 01-02-2016, 05:38 PM   #17
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I keep a careful eye on the boat deck and have seen no evidence of flexing or cracking in the 3 years the Whaler has been up there. Most people think nothing of putting a 12 foot RIB on the boat deck with a 40 hp four stroke. That weighs as much or more than the Whaler with the max rated 25 hp four stroke. The Whaler is a blast and with minimal care will become a prized family possession. What's the boat deck for?
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:30 PM   #18
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I am going through the same thing with a 44' Heritage East. One thing I was thinking is to get a whaler knockoff that weighs 320 pounds because that is less than specs I saw for whalers. This may solve the weight issue but it is not a whaler. I'll have to look for a vintage whaler and have the best of both!
If anyone has experience with a Heritage East (Nova) with a dink on the roof please let me know what weight you have had success with.
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Old 02-03-2016, 06:49 PM   #19
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FlyWright -

Beautiful boat - Will be very interested to see that setup if you pull the trigger. Have been thinking of doing the same thing if i can get an 11' at the right price.

Of course my son wants me to do a 13' Dauntless, keep it on a trailer and just tow it when we need a dink. Now that would be fast and fun.
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Old 02-03-2016, 10:59 PM   #20
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HughG,
You ask if t's too heavy. Heavy for what? Too heavy for the deck?, for the height abouve the water (CG), too heavy to be swinging around in the air high up?, or just a fat boat. But the total weight includes the crane for most of the questions that you ask.

The first question that I would ask is if the boat was top heavy already. Most people add lots and lots of weight to a boat. How much and where compared to the original boat and how well is the design capable of the extra weight.
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