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Old 05-05-2013, 07:56 PM   #21
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Why would you want to bastardize a Liv 9, that would never be a performance row craft anyway? The marketplace is full of purpose built rowboats. I like the Livingstons', but I'll take mine with O/B power Please.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:10 PM   #22
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The problem with rowing is you can't see where you are going...
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:36 PM   #23
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The problem with rowing is you can't see where you are going...
Exactly! So why have a fast rowing dinghy when you're just going to hit something?
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:38 PM   #24
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Everybody's whinning about their Livingstons being too tippy and not having enough capacity. It's almost a barge so just finish the job and it shouldn't add much weight at all. Not even in the same ballpark as those ridiculously heavy Boston Whalers.

S of F yes. The Livingston needs power.
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Old 05-05-2013, 09:43 PM   #25
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A Livingston is as stable as one can get. I've never heard anyone who has one call it tippy. I can stand on one side of it is and it as stable as a rock.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:28 PM   #26
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A Livingston is as stable as one can get. I've never heard anyone who has one call it tippy. I can stand on one side of it is and it as stable as a rock.
I'll second that

We where at the lake with our 8' Livingston a couple years ago and told my sons they could not sink it if they tried. Well, when you challenge 3 boys like that don't be surprised when they take you up on it.

They emptied the boat and removed the engine and pushed off the beach into 6' of water and went to work. They managed to swamp it after a half our of jumping off the gunnels but never did manage to tip it over or sink it. Exasperated they finally brought it into 2' of water and lifted it over upside down and floated around on it like that for another hour until dinner was ready and mom made them clean up the boat.
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Old 05-05-2013, 10:31 PM   #27
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Don't all dinghies have positive flotation?
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:04 PM   #28
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Actually, there are systems available for forward-facing rowing (if I managed to figure out how to insert a photo). I've never personally tried one, but it looks neat, and does seem to solve the age-old rowing problem of not being able to see where you're going -
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:33 PM   #29
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Don't all dinghies have positive flotation?
In my case it wasn't just the positive flotation that was put to the test. It was the stability of the design itself.

Try as they might Mark they never where able to tip the boat over without standing in shallow water and lifting it over.
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Old 05-05-2013, 11:48 PM   #30
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Endurance,
http://www.frontrower.com/
www.ghboats.com/options/accessories/forwardrow/
Yes I'm going to get those articulated oars (about $450.) in that link.
But I have had another far more sophisticated system simply called the "Front Rower". It's a very cleverly designed system and when it's mounted in a canoe (it's most often used that way) it's at least as fast as a typical kayak. There's many advantages to the more common sliding seat system one being that atvthe end of the rowing stroke one's weight isn't thrown forward to push the bow down. The "Front Rower is for boats w 36" beam or less so is not for dinks.

I think a boat w half the stability of a Livingston is stable but yes the "L" has plenty of stability. And the "L" wouldn't gain much stability from the mod I suggested but the capacity would go way up and end the complaints of low freeboard. I'm quite sure it would plane better w less power or more weight.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:56 PM   #31
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Eric,

That 'front rower' system is very neat! It looks like a very efficient way of transmitting power to oars. It's too bad it's only for narrow boats and not dinghys (and is also pricey at $2,000). It looks like it would be a lot of fun on an Adirondak guide boat.

What kind of dinghy are you getting the articulated oars for? I assume it's the dinghy you use on Willy?
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:04 PM   #32
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Endurance,
Rowboats, Oars, State-of-the-Art Rowing Systems
Forward Facing Rowing System | Gig Harbor Boat Works

I think a boat w half the stability of a Livingston is stable but yes the "L" has plenty of stability. And the "L" wouldn't gain much stability from the mod I suggested but the capacity would go way up and end the complaints of low freeboard. I'm quite sure it would plane better w less power or more weight.
Hey Eric; the 10' Livingston has solved the low freeboard issue vs the 9' model. An additional 10" does wonders.

And our 9' Livingston is perfectly suited for its current role, which is plying the lakes and ponds of Kananaskis Country in Alberta's foothills.
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Old 05-08-2013, 08:30 PM   #33
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Yes, the 10 ft Livingston has plenty of freeboard even with four aboard. The only exception, and this is true of many outboards, is if you are alone in the stern, put the engine in reverse, and try to back up fast into waves or a chop.
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Old 05-08-2013, 10:00 PM   #34
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Endurance,
No not bad it's for narrow boats. Narrow boats slide right along at really fast speeds. It's almost thrilling. I'm getting too old for athelitic stuff so I sold mine to a good friend who is in such good shape he on occasion jumps over cars. as an exercising machine the FR exercises the whole body much like swimming. And if you wear a heart rate measuring devise you can attain the ideal level of exercise and maximize the length of time doing it for the most benefit.

But as an easy way to row a canoe the FR is great too. one can "row" w legs only or arms only to give one a rest, take a picture or eat something and still move along at a fair clip.

Yes they are expensive but when you see it you'll never think it's not worth it. Beautiful Cherry wood and aircraft like machined parts. But the most amazing thing is it's engineering. Ron Rontillia is a clever fellow and good to talk to on the phone as well.

Stability is excellent too as one sits right on the bottom of the boat. Some care is required to get in or out of it though.



Oh ...about the Livingston mod I mentioned it probably wouldn't work as well as I imagined as the Livingston's "tunnel" is much wider than I remembered.
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:16 PM   #35
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'Rigid Boats' tender

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Marin and Conrad, thank you very much! Those are exactly the kind of perspectives I was hoping for.

I'm also not a fan of inflatables, and have been perusing the hard shell offerings. I've been drawn to the Gig Harbor 10 ft Navigator, which looks like it would be a lot of fun to row or sail (for simplicity's sake, I want to dispense with an outboard). But, have been concerned about it being too tender for real "dinghy" use, launching in choppy water, etc. (the first time my wife would end up going in the drink spilling out of a dinghy might be her last time on the boat...). The Pudgy looked like a possible good compromise between inflatable stability and hard shell durability, but a little tight.

I wrote to the company's founder/President/owner, asking if they would consider making a larger version. He acknowledged getting frequent requests for this, but that the cost of tooling for another version is prohibitive in current market conditions (the old saw, 'you've got to invest money to make money').

The Rigid Boats are another interesting possibility - a hard shell that looks and performs like an inflatable (but they don't look like they would row well at all). If we had a bigger boat I would be tempted to get one of them, with an outboard and center console steering (a mini 10 ft 'runabout'), but I think it would be too unwieldy and heavy for us on our size boat.
Did a search on this forum for 'Rigid Boats' and this was the only site (and posting) that mentioned them. I'm surprised they did not get any more mention?...just no one using them?

Rigid Boats

But I wonder why they chose to use a round tube profile for their outer hulls? I have a few sketches I was playing with for a RIB idea that utilized half-tubes at the outer perimeter....sure makes for a lot more interior space, and the vertical walls of the half tube concept lend a lot of regidity to the vessel. It would be interesting to constuct one in carbon fiber sandwich,...it wouldn't require that much carbon fiber..

I asked the fellow from Rigid Boats (at Trawler Fest, Balt) why they chose the round tube configuration, but never received a good answer. He could have even used a 'half-tube' configuration with his existing construction materials,...I would think?
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Old 10-17-2013, 01:32 PM   #36
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...a few rough sketches

Here are a few of those sketches I mentioned
Tenders stored on foredeck - Page 4 - Boat Design Forums

Obviously this was a much more complicated version,...a tri-hull version. But it could be simplified with just a V-bottom and hard foam 'tubes'. Perhaps just alum bottom and inner-sides
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Old 10-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #37
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Have you considered this?

Utility Yacht Tender / Dinghy 10 - Bullfrog Boats
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Old 10-17-2013, 07:33 PM   #38
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I'd love to have one of those to try-out for a couple of days, but 225 lbs. is pretty hefty to start out with, especially on a swim platform mount. Heaving her on deck with a motor, one would also need a decent crane. My twin dinghy davits are rated 385 lbs. each but when I've got my 100 lb. Caribe up there in a busy sea, the davits do toque a bit, even with the dinghy strapped to prevent it.
If I had one, I'd either be towing it or putting it on the boat deck. Very nice, solid boat. Wonder how she rows.
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:37 PM   #39
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Some nice ideas there, but I don't know that I see the need for all of those transvers frames that are welded in...lots of welding has to add to each boat cost. BTW, what do these boats retail for?

Not sure I understand the 'bolting' situation either.
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