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Old 11-27-2009, 10:13 PM   #21
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

And I thought I was stubborn. I'm outa here.


Eric
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:09 AM   #22
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

you must remember that a 2 stoke has about three moving psrts and a four stroke has i few hundred, a lot more to go wrong
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Old 11-28-2009, 11:33 AM   #23
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Yeh Jerry,
I don't know what I'm going to do w my Suzy when it gets old. I's like a big plasma TV or an automatic transmission, both 2 or 3000 thousand dollar items that pack it up any old time with no warning. Sure I can do lots of maint on the Suz but what if I had to replace the head gasket? I would'nt be looking fwd to that but then I've disected overhead cam motorcycles and ran them again but it's a big job. A 2 stroke OB has only one dificult wrench job and that is spliting the crank cases. I see that 2 strokes are more popular here in Alaska and I'm sure it's because we need to be more self reliant and buy products that are easy to maintain by ourselves. If your skiff sinks here you jerk the engine out, rinse it real good, dry it and run it emideately for at least 10 min. I can't imagine doing that w my 4 cyl Suzuki 4 stroke. There is a guy here on the island that sells Nissan OBs** ..* mostly the 2 stroke "DFI". It's part of a grocery store but some guys pass up the traditional dealer W Mercs and Yamadogs to get that simple 2 stroke. I can't remember who said it but the 100-1 factor seems to be part of how Evinrude gets the E techs by the emission gate. When an E tech goes through it's oil in the tank (new engine) one is supposed to go to the dealer to re-program it's onboard computer to run it's oil injection at 100-1. Brand new they are adjusted for 50-1. I've opted to stay at 50-1 and my dealer sees no reason not to. One of the reasons I bought the E-tech is it's huge propeller (almost 14" dia) and very low gear ratio(2.67-1). Marin says 4 Strokes are better because you don't have to mix oil w gas, well all modern 2 strokes (except very small) OBs have oil injection and require less oil to operate than a 4 stroke. And you never need to change oil and filter. As all can see this is a pet issue w me. But all my wailin won't bring the 2 stroke to the fore enen if people like Marin thought they were better and made sense. With few exceptions thats all there is to chose from. The DFI engines are far better than the old carberatored 2strokes but still burn 20 to 25% more fuel than 4 strokes. The E-techs are (in my opnion) are only 5 to 10% behiend the 4 strokes (but maybe equal to?) but they weigh almost as much, cost about the same and in most all ways are very comprable to the 4 strokes so there's really not much difference. They sell quite a few but do not claim a big share of the market because most folks think they (2 strokes) are old technology as in "dinosaur" and their friends will look at them as old folks that are too stuck in their ways to embrace new technology. Well John** .. looks like your'e going to buy the Yam anyway*** ..* can't go wrong there.

Eric Henning
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Old 11-28-2009, 12:40 PM   #24
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New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

Marin says 4 Strokes are better because you don't have to mix oil w gas, well all modern 2 strokes (except very small) OBs have oil injection and require less oil to operate than a 4 stroke.
You're right--- our 1987 Yamaha 90 2-stroke has oil injection.* However you're wrong in that 2-strokes use less oil to operate.* The oil reservoir on our 90hp holds a couple of quarts.* As we run the boat, that oil goes away, out the exhaust into the water.* We don't use that boat much these days but I seem to recall those couple of quarts of oil are good for about ten hours of run time.* A 4-stroke outboard may require a greater volume of oil to lubricate the engine, but the oil doesn't go away while you're running it.** People I know with 4-strokes go a couple of years before needing to change the oil, sometimes longer depending on how conscientious they are.* During that time some of them put 100-200 hours on their engines, particularly the sportfishermen.* So every 200 hours, they remove what, three or four quarts of oil, put in three or four quarts of new oil, and go another 200 hours.* If this was my Yamaha 90, during those same 200 hours I would have pumped ten gallons of oil into the water.

*


-- Edited by Marin on Saturday 28th of November 2009 01:41:23 PM
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Old 11-28-2009, 02:11 PM   #25
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

EUREKA! That's why the fish burned last night, there's no oil in the water lubricating the fish. When those nasty 2 strokes were keeping the fish lubricated they didn't stick when cooking. Now with no oil in the water they stick and burn. Stinkin' modern crap!!!

Ken, with a 2 stroke so old I still mix oil in the gas.
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Old 11-28-2009, 06:34 PM   #26
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

I never said anything about "where the oil goes" only about how much the engine needs to operate. With a 4 stroke motorcycle one uses more oil in oil changes (if they change oil as often as specified) that the same size m/c that is an oil injected 2 stroke. I can see where 2 stroke outboards may (probably) use more oil than motorcycles* (or 4 stroke OBs)because they run at higher loads (most of the time) than a m/c. But you don't have to change it. I'll ask my dealer and get back to you. And Marin** ... you better tell your friends to check their maint sched for oil changes. Two years between oil changes is ridiculous. One should change oil no matter how many hours are on the clock.
Slo,*** I did that w my 12 hp 4 stroke lawnmower. Used synthetic oil at 50-1 as an upper cyl lube. Ran it that way for about 8 years. At about year 6 I cleaned the plugs and it started and ran great w/o smoking always. I wouldn't recomend it w fuel inject as it's at least remotely possible it could lean out the mixture. And don't do it w a car that has a catalitic converter. In the 60s (when I was a constantly broke sailor) I used to "steal" the 24-1 outboard gas from my boat and run it in my 53 Chevy convertable. All that oil never gave any problem.

Eric Henning
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:12 AM   #27
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

This past year I used my dinghy a lot. Went thru at least 2 l of 2cycle oil at 100 to 1. Typical usage is less than that.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:21 AM   #28
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New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Q: What do you get if you cross a dinghy motor with a joke book?
A: A Yamahaha
SD

-- Edited by skipperdude on Friday 4th of December 2009 11:22:22 AM
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:45 AM   #29
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

"2 l of 2cycle oil"


Koliver,*** Does that say you used 21 quarts of oil? Sounds like a ton of oil for a dinghy engine. You must mean those little tiny bottles.

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Old 12-04-2009, 02:49 PM   #30
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Thought you would have crossed the border at least once, where you would come across the metric system. We still use miles on the water (nautical miles only), but not gallons and quarts. we don't measure efficiency in mpg any more. now it is in l/100km so no Canadian will be able to tell you americans accurately how efficient their boat is, cause of the unfamiliar language.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:43 PM   #31
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Keith---

What was the rationale for changing the standard for fuel economy from litres per kilometer to litres per one hundred kilometers? Is it felt that this gives a more realistic figure for overall efficiency?
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:01 PM   #32
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New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Keith,
I've crossed the border many times having lived in Vancouver, Surrey and Masset. That was in the 70s and I don't recall if the metric system was in place or not then. It's common knoledge on both sides of the border that the metric system is better. We've been frustrated w swaping back and forth w tools and lately there seems to be 10 or 15 new types of screw heads and my tool box only has 2 or3. But if you know how much oil you consumed w what size of engine over what period of time I would like to know. Still haven't talked w my dealer.
OK OK I see that the one in what looks like 21 is a bit higher than the number 1 so you said two liters. Actually # of gallons of fuel is what we need to know now and if your'e a normal skipper you don't keep track of it.

Eric Henning


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 4th of December 2009 10:06:16 PM

-- Edited by nomadwilly on Friday 4th of December 2009 10:08:57 PM
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Old 12-04-2009, 09:22 PM   #33
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Eric:
My dinghy gets used for a variety of things, from ferrying the dog to shore for his constitutional to buzzing out to the prawn spot and back. I fill when it needs it, and only keep a rough count of the # of times I fill in a season. Once,when buzzing to the Duke point ferry terminal to pick up a passenger, and back to Silva bay, I had to pay attention to consumption to be sure I would get there and back on what was in the tank. Other than that I am rarely going far enough to need to know.
My dinghy has those "smart tabs" trim tabs and one failed when I was 5 miles from my boat. Boy did I notice the extra fuel consumption from driving with one tab fully down the whole way!

Marin:
No idea. I note though that my cars all now state fuel economy in l/100km, so there was likely some international convention that set this up.
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:25 PM   #34
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RE: New Dinghy motor questions!!!!!

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

It's common knoledge on both sides of the border that the metric system is better.

I can remember back when I was in grade school that the US decided to make the switch to metric.* I believe it was actually an official government decree, and I recall making a start in whatever grade I was in to learn the metric system.* But the idea lasted about 15 minutes.* I don't remember how long the change was actually in effect, but it must not have been very long because our studying of the metric system quietly faded away never to be revived.

I agree, Eric, the metric system is the more logical and sensible.* Our military realized that a long time ago.* Pity the folks in the UK, however, who have to live with both.* A surprising number of people don't seem to realize that England was not metric until relatively recently.* My 1973 Land Rover, for example, is all regular fasteners, SAE is it?* There are a few Whitworth bits, but the vehicle is all 1/2", 5/16". etc.* But our Range Rover is all metric except for the really big fasteners, like the bolts in the suspension system, which are still SAE.

In the UK, petrol and diesel fuel is sold by the litre.* A lot of people still use the weight measurement, "stone," (equal to 14 pounds).* Despite the official adapatation of the metric system, beer MUST be sold in the UK by the pint, road signs MUST be in miles, yards or feet, road speed limits MUST be posted in miles per hour, and the railroads still officially measure everthing in yards, feet, inches, and chains.* Must be fun.....
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