I really hate my 4 stroke dinghy ob

[Pau Hana]

The battery weighs less than 15 pounds, the motor 106 pounds, I have bursitis in my shoulder, this works for me. The engine is extremely hard to hand crank.
By the way I am using a modern keyboard and electric computer also. I gave up rotary dial and hand cranks a long time ago. My post was to show what works for me. If anyone wants to hand crank a 75 horsepower like I did 57 years ago have at it. Lets contribute useful information, not opinions that are negative and irrelevant to the original post.

Great response!

I find it very interesting that there seems to be an overwhelming negativity towards the tech of a 4 stroke dinghy motor- especially as most tender are (more or less) pickup trucks the are used to ferry passengers and goods around and fish/crab, not win speed contests.....

Question on the Suzuki- it's on our radar as a replacement for our aging 35hp Johnson 2 stroke (118 lbs) on our 13' Whaler. The whaler weighs in at about 350 lbs- how do you think that Suzuki will push it?

 

[Nomad Willy]

Gotfw,
Sorry I really wasn't out to offend.
New things frequently get very popular just because they are new. Had you mentioned the Bursitis I'd a never thought twice.
I like your choice re the Suzuki. I bought one after much shopping but it's so complicated it scares me. And heavy.
Re the hand cranking I cranked on an old OMC 40 about 10 years ago and wondered how I had taken it for granite when I was young. To have the option though is good.
Sorry about the attack though ... I need to watch my mouth.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Let me preclude my comments to say I'm a fan of the lighter weight 2 strokes HP for HP. Mr. PH. If going from a "tired" 35 HP 2 stroke to a fresh 20 HP 4 stroke, you will probably notice some loss of performance both from the lesser HP and the increased weight BUT you may be able to minimize that to some extent by re-propping AND no more oil and quiet too.
Mr. got. More power to you for the electric start. You likes what you likes and to h3ll with the naysayers.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Pau Hana wrote;

"I find it very interesting that there seems to be an overwhelming negativity towards the tech of a 4 stroke dinghy motor-"

"the tech"? What's "tech"? I see a lot of extra weight and vibration but new is very appealing too. Actually I object to the vibration more than the weight w many new engines. My 3.5hp 4s is 41lbs and the 2.5hp Yamaha is probably 34lbs. My old OMC 3.5hp was a twin was 34lbs. I remember the smoothness fondly. At half throttle I could happily run that little engine for hours at a time.

 

[Pau Hana]

Pau Hana wrote;

"I find it very interesting that there seems to be an overwhelming negativity towards the tech of a 4 stroke dinghy motor-"

"the tech"? What's "tech"? I see a lot of extra weight and vibration but new is very appealing too. Actually I object to the vibration more than the weight w many new engines. My 3.5hp 4s is 41lbs and the 2.5hp Yamaha is probably 34lbs. My old OMC 3.5hp was a twin was 34lbs. I remember the smoothness fondly. At half throttle I could happily run that little engine for hours at a time.

Hmmm...lemme see;

• quieter
• better fuel economy
• EFI vice carb induction
• less pollution
• no need to premix your fuel, carry TCW-3, or rely on an oil injection system

I could go on. The point is- the 4 stroke engine is a logical choice for a repower of a dinghy, especially given that new small 2 strokes are just about completely off the market (Etec is the lone holdout here in the states). One could go to Canada and get a new Merc 2 stroke- but then you have the challenges of warranty, and moreso the challenges of legally getting the engine across the border.

It's not about "new"- I want relaible so my daughter or fiance' are safe to take our whaler out without fiddling with a 1970s era outboard.If you prefer continuing the care and feeding of your 2 stroke outboard, please enjoy- but quit being such a naysayer just because the change doesn't fit you.

Or, you refuse to adapt.

 

[Nomad Willy]

Pau Hana,
You're point is well made. But ...

Who cares about fuel economy in these small engines?
FI is great (I really believe that) but it scares me to think of working on it.
Less pollution of course but how much of a dent in pollution can one make w a 5hp engine?
Mixing? ..... I agree w you on that one. Hard to mix gas/oil w/o getting oily. But at least I can lay the engine down w/o worrying about all the lube oil running out on the deck or whatever.

Maybe I am reluctant to change but there are reasons.

 

[mahal]

Erick, Your old Johnson that you said your wife can start, is it a long shaft or short?

Sorry, I couldn't help myself.

 

[Art]

First: RTF - Good to see ya again. Been missen your sardonic picts and (mostly funny) video shorts... they were/hopefully soon again will be a blast!

Regarding 2 stroke / 4 stroke:

1. I do not hear good things from persons who own 4 strokers
2. I do hear good things from persons who own 2 strokers

Used to have 1998 quicksilver inflatable (see avatar) on which we used 1998 8 hp Nissan – GREAT motor!

Currently have a cherry 1975 Crestliner (see pict) with 1975 50 hp Johnson – GREAT motor!

Have owned many o/b’s over the years! Love them 2 strokers!!

Just Sayennnn...

 

[FlyWright]

I suspect a similar argument was made when the ships changed from rowers and sails to those new-fangled steam engines...then again with the introduction of each generation of internal combustion engine. The arguments probably stopped only when the previous generation of sailors departed the scene.

Eric, it's time to embrace change since fighting it is just an exercise in futility.

 

[Pau Hana]

Eric, I care about fuel economy- I don't care to carry any more dinghy fuel than needed on my boat. If I can double (or better) the MPG on the tender, it means I have less need to go into port for gas.. When up north, I generally don't stop for fuel, only re-provisioning and sightseeing.

I find FI to be much easier to troubleshoot and repair than carbs, and more reliable. I can troll all day without fear of fouling plugs, and not worry about breathing the 2 stroke smoke.

And, you can lay down the 4 stroke engine on its side without damage.

 

[Peter B]

I must admit my old 4 hp 2 stroke twin Merc ran very sweetly when recently serviced and with fresh petrol, but after sitting a while it was always a dog to start. I really love the near new 2.5hp 4 stroke Honda we now use, because although less powerful and less smooth, it is powerful enough, as we don't use it to travel far, and it is so light to throw on and off the dink, and being air cooled there is no flushing, and even when the fuel is a bit old, it still starts virtually first pull. To me those attributes are gold.

 

[IntervaleII]

I have a 20hp 4 stroke Honda for the past 5 years and it has worked flawlessly. It has a screw plug to drain the fuel out of the bowl for extended periods. It starts up with a touch of the key every single time. I probably have logged 3-400 hours on it. Maybe I just got lucky, I am going to hold on to my good luck.

 

[psneeld]

Eric, I care about fuel economy- I don't care to carry any more dinghy fuel than needed on my boat. If I can double (or better) the MPG on the tender, it means I have less need to go into port for gas.. When up north, I generally don't stop for fuel, only re-provisioning and sightseeing.

I find FI to be much easier to troubleshoot and repair than carbs, and more reliable. I can troll all day without fear of fouling plugs, and not worry about breathing the 2 stroke smoke.

And, you can lay down the 4 stroke engine on its side without damage.

Have to agree....for some the balance of carrying fuel in a smaller dingy that make distant runs becomes ore than an afterthought.

Laying one down require only a minimum of thought once you see how it's done.

Mine is as easy if not easier to start.

Some guests are very smoke sensitive.

Yes 2 stroke have their advantages...but I don't think they outweigh the 4 stroke advantages..and not all the 4 stroke advantages offset their good points....so if you have one or 2 "needs" that one has over the other...I can see going out of your way to get one.

Just the weight alone shouldn't tip the scales...there are ways to deal with it with mechanical assistance.

 

[Art]

Bit more info (personal experience) on 2 strokes... from 1950's to today!

1. Never had a problem laying em on their side (actually back down front up – their hood/chassis is generally designed for that)... some posts here say that is a no, no... I disagree!
2. I only run em dry of fuel if I’m gonna leave em for over 6 months (never have prob starting my 2 strokes with touch of a button/key or one to three pulls of the rope)... I use small amount of Seafoam fuel line cleaner in one 6 gal tank twice per year and add ¼ oz Soltran to full gas tanks if to be left dormant for more than 6 months – which basically never happens!
3. Point in fact: My current 50 hp 1975 Johnson electric start gets new pump impeller every two years and new bottom gear 90 wt oil every spring. She starts with touch of key every time and idle increaser as well as electric choke work wonderfully. This beast at WOT pushes our 14’8” 1975 Crestliner covered four seater to GPS 39 knots with just me. With me, wife, two full 6 gal gas tanks and a bit o” gear she’ll cruise all day at about 25 knots in upper-mid-range rpm and I calc she gets some 21 to 22 nmpg (we term her our econo boat). Once a family emergency occurred back home (88 yr matriarch went down and was in ER). Wife, daughter, husband, small baby and much gear needed to be transported very quickly to nearby marina for planned pick up and 100 mile drive home. Off our anchored Tolly, we loaded all including much, much gear into the Crestliner – at least 2X over loaded! The 50 hp Johnson planed us off easily and at WOT hit in the mid to high 20’s as we raced several miles to the pickup point. Much faster than if we’d done it in the Tolly. I cruised back to boat, stayed the night and docked Tolly and Crestliner the next morning.


I’m a Johnson feller form way back (Nissan makes some great o/b motors too). I don’t have anything particularly against 4 stroke o/b’s... as I’ve never owned one - how could I!! But, from first hand reports via those that own and have not spoken too favorably about 4 strokers... and my decades of fun and successful experience with 2 strokers... I’m in no rush to change!

That said: I’m sure the 2 strokers time has passed and 4 strokers will eventually be all that is available (in not only new – as now, but in used models too). Till that comes to pass – Classic Johnsons and Nissan o/b’s are my basically fool-proof engines of choice!

 

[Nomad Willy]

Yup ... You guys are right. The new engines are great and they work wonderfully well. I admit I haven't had to do any serious maintenance on any of them. They are whisper quiet at an idle but still make plenty of noise working. And I'm much more concerned about the cruising speed noise than the idle. But this thing we're talking about really isn't a 4s 2s thing as my e-tec Evinrude is much much more like the 4s engines than the old 2s. I get no smoke or smell and I'm still at 50-1 on the computer. But the old 2s advantages are mostly lacking so it's basically an old v/s new. But I still don't like the high level of vibration of the single cylinder engines. If I was in marketing I'd say "build this .. no way. Nobody would buy anything that shakes like that". But I myself even have one.

mahal,
I couldn't resist either had I thought of it. And my male ego will tell you it is indeed a long shaft.

 

[Pau Hana]

Reviving a comatose post....

Just got back from a few weeks cruising around the Straits of Georgia, Gulf and San Juan Islands, and a repower of our Whaler from a 1980s 35hp 2 stroke Johnson to a 2002 30hp 4 stroke Nissan. We spent a lot of time in the Whaler fishing, crabbing, sightseeing, and playing on our trip. Some insights:

• Fuel usage: we carry a 6 gal main and 3 gal spare tank. With the 2 stroke, we'd go thru the main tank quickly-less than 4 hours of run time at part throttle. The 4 stroke absolutely sips fuel- I'm estimating it uses about 1/4 the fuel of the old Johnson. The Nissan is quiet, zero smoke, and one can converse normally at running speeds.
  
• Performance: The 2 stroke is hands down quicker and faster at WOT. At the same time, the Nissan has power tilt and trim, and is much easier to fine tune and keep on plane. With 4 adults on board, the 2 stroke has a slight advantage. As 95% of our cruising with the whaler is with 2 people, it's a non-issue.
  
• Weight: 120lbs on the 35hp 2 stroke vs 185 for the 4 stroke Nissan. I shifted the fuel tanks and battery forward, and that simple change balanced the Whaler perfectly. The davit on our boat lifts the whaler perfectly.

Conclusion- we're thrilled with the new engine (well, new to us). Best part- our net cost was $600 ($1400 for the new engine, sold the Johnson for $800.)

 

[Art]

Reviving a comatose post....

Just got back from a few weeks cruising around the Straits of Georgia, Gulf and San Juan Islands, and a repower of our Whaler from a 1980s 35hp 2 stroke Johnson to a 2002 30hp 4 stroke Nissan. We spent a lot of time in the Whaler fishing, crabbing, sightseeing, and playing on our trip. Some insights:

• Fuel usage: we carry a 6 gal main and 3 gal spare tank. With the 2 stroke, we'd go thru the main tank quickly-less than 4 hours of run time at part throttle. The 4 stroke absolutely sips fuel- I'm estimating it uses about 1/4 the fuel of the old Johnson. The Nissan is quiet, zero smoke, and one can converse normally at running speeds.
  
• Performance: The 2 stroke is hands down quicker and faster at WOT. At the same time, the Nissan has power tilt and trim, and is much easier to fine tune and keep on plane. With 4 adults on board, the 2 stroke has a slight advantage. As 95% of our cruising with the whaler is with 2 people, it's a non-issue.
  
• Weight: 120lbs on the 35hp 2 stroke vs 185 for the 4 stroke Nissan. I shifted the fuel tanks and battery forward, and that simple change balanced the Whaler perfectly. The davit on our boat lifts the whaler perfectly.

Conclusion- we're thrilled with the new engine (well, new to us). Best part- our net cost was $600 ($1400 for the new engine, sold the Johnson for $800.)

Hi Peter - Glad you two had a great time! Admiral and I plan to be out and about on our Tolly... Friday 8/30 thru Sunday 9/8...

I take it you have a 13'3" Whaler? I had that size Boston Whaler decades ago with 40 hp Johnson... can we spell fun! Got pics of yours?

If I read you correctly; you roughly calc that the 4 stroke Nissan accomplished approx 16 hours run time on 6 gal tank at equivalent cruising speed to the 2 stroke 35 hp Johnson that sucked the tank dry in 4 hrs. Can you estimate what nmpg was with the Johnson and is now with the Nissan? How fast is your cruise speed in the Whaler?

I calc that our 1975 50 hp Johnson averages 21 +/- nmpg pushing us two at 25 +/- knots in our beloved and comfortable tow behind runabout - 14' 8" 1975 Crestliner 4 seat "Stinger". While cruising distances at that speed a 6 gallon tank (with oil added) empties in 5 +/- hours run time. I carry two sixes and a 1.25 gal for emergency. Just to keep fuel fresh I empty/refill the 1.25 gal tank about every 3 months.

If we could double or triple our nmpg it may be worth it to invest in a newer 50 (or even 60) hp Nissan. Johnson and Nissan are my two favorite outboard makes. Our great condition 50 hp Johnson would probably sell well!

Happy Boating Daze!

Art

 

[Nomad Willy]

Art,
My 40hp e-tech Evinrude would probably replace your Johnson and likely match th performance of your 50. It has a lower unit w 2.67-1 gears and a very big prop. I filled that big skiff up w beer, canned vegetables, ammunition and other heavy stuff. Hardly had room for Chris but the boat popped up on plane without hesitation.
Lowspeed throttle response and smoothness is excellent. Nothing like a 2 stroke w a carb. Actually its more controllable than a 4 stroke at low speeds.

Downside is that it's not much lighter than a 4S and a bit noisier. Fuel consumption is not quite that of a 4S but it is close.

But they winterize themselves and are FAR simpler. Once you get past the FI it's just a basic 2S.

That big prop has great thrust. Look at the pic.

 

[Dougcole]

Agreed about the E-tec. They are light, fast, quiet and fuel efficient. My 115 burns a quart of oil for about every 30 gallons of fuel, if that. Back when I was guiding with it I could go a month fishing every day on a gallon of oil.

I've had a few issues with it though, mostly peripheral stuff, starters, power trim motors. It hates dirty fuel, I have to be really careful with the filters and no ethanol.