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Old 03-12-2014, 10:55 AM   #21
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Boy that's a good question. I would buy it at West Marine and keep the recipt. Bedding is very important and I've always used 5200. I would be mad as hell if I paid 22k and had rusty hardware. Good luck
Based on my experience WM is the place you don't want to buy SS parts as they carry low grade stuff. For nuts and bolts I go to ACE Hardware, they seemed to carry better grade SS stuff.

In regards to sealant, 5200 is the last product I would use on any application that might need to be re-done at some point in time. As you probably know, when 5200 hardens it becomes as strong as a brick and you'll need to use chisel and hammer to take things apart.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:01 AM   #22
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I have a similar problem with where the stanchion bases are bolted to fiberglass. The bases aren't rusting but are surrounded by rust stains. I found a product called Rust Cure that will remove the stains. Don't know yet if it will prevent them.

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Old 03-12-2014, 01:28 PM   #23
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You are right about adhision qualities. I've never replaced those items that you have pictured. I have installed a few outboards and removed a few with the 5200. I have bigger issues with mildew in sealant than not being able to remove it.
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Old 03-12-2014, 09:19 PM   #24
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Chinese stainless?
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Old 03-13-2014, 01:53 AM   #25
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Alex, The measure of your loss in $ terms seems to be the cost of new parts and removal and proper fitting. The defect is a combination of poor quality/inferior grade ss, and absence of bedding. That other owners don`t have the problem suggests a batch of bad fittings. Find out if the satisfied owners fittings were bedded or not, that tells you something about causation.
Is there a Government agency overseeing consumer warranty obligations whose help you can invoke? That may pull AB into line pronto. Here, there is a reasonable expectation concept, as well as the sellers warranty. If something is warranted for 1 year, the reasonable expectation a TV is good for 3 years triumphs. If a phone company sells you a phone on a 2 year plan, phone dies after a year, they replace the phone And here, it`s not just the manufacturer who is responsible, it`s the seller too. No idea how it works over there, hope this helps.
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:35 AM   #26
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I bought an aluminium AB about 9 months ago, in Seattle. They are unloaded out of the containers with tubes completely flat and look like sardines in a tin. They are then set up for delivery by the dealer - at least mine was. They are shipped with minimal fittings so they can be stacked one on top of the other to take as little volume as possible in a shipping container.

Now, the GRP ones may be handled differently but you should check. My point is is may not be AB's fault - the dealer you bought from may have purchased and installed the inferior grade SS fittings. You should not assume they arrive off the ship ready to go, or fitted up by AB in USA before delivery to dealers. It is possible, but I would be surprised. Seems to me the line 'talk to AB directly' is a cunning dealer fob-off.

Pic is mine after getting console, seat and engine fitted by the dealer. Inflation of the tubes is just about the last thing done. Easier to work on them that way.
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Old 03-13-2014, 07:52 AM   #27
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Stainless steel is just that, stainless steel. Unless a grade is mentioned, caveat emptor. I was surprised that 316 wasn't mentioned anywhere on the AB website. The problem may very well be low quality or off grade SS. Positive material identification has gotten really cheap and easy to do with the new analyzers on the market. A NDT shop could tell you in a minute the Cr and Mo content of the steel.

If it is rusting, it means that isn't well passivated. You could try removing a piece or two and pickling it with pickling paste, found at a welding shop..

Another likely possibility is that the SS was power polished with a carbon steel wire brush and has embedded CS in it, which is now rusting.

I would certainly be disappointed with AB as they certainly do hype "quality". Good for you on calling them out. Best of luck.
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Old 03-13-2014, 08:37 AM   #28
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As you can piece together from the various responses, there are two issues here. One is the very poor job (if any) of bedding the fittings, what is shown in the pics is totally inexcusable on a new boat.

The other is the surface stains, like on the wheel hub or pop up cleat. No stainless is maintenance free and "stainless" when exposed to salt water and spray. It needs to be rinsed and wiped off after use, or at least wiped with a damp cloth. Cleaning it with Collonite Metal Wax will cut down subsequent
accumulation dramatically. Add a coat of Fleet Wax or Insulator Wax or Rejex and it will resist stain for very long time. My boat has a lot of high quality stainless on it, and gets a lot of green water and salt spray exposure. Unmaintained and protected, it will develop surface stains in places just like in the pictures.
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Old 03-13-2014, 09:19 AM   #29
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As you can piece together from the various responses, there are two issues here. One is the very poor job (if any) of bedding the fittings, what is shown in the pics is totally inexcusable on a new boat.

The other is the surface stains, like on the wheel hub or pop up cleat. No stainless is maintenance free and "stainless" when exposed to salt water and spray. It needs to be rinsed and wiped off after use, or at least wiped with a damp cloth. Cleaning it with Collonite Metal Wax will cut down subsequent
accumulation dramatically. Add a coat of Fleet Wax or Insulator Wax or Rejex and it will resist stain for very long time. My boat has a lot of high quality stainless on it, and gets a lot of green water and salt spray exposure. Unmaintained and protected, it will develop surface stains in places just like in the pictures.
I honestly don't remember for sure (trying to recollect the events from the beginning of last summer), but I think the reason I went to the AB rep for Northeast was based on my conversation with the dealer I bought the boat from. However, the more I thought about it recently, the more it made sense to give it another shot, especially that my complaint was refused by the AB. So, yesterday I emailed the dealer explaining what took place and asking for his assistance.

Interesting point on the assembly. If a local dealer does all the prep work and installs all the hardware, then they're clearly part of the problem. I have doubts that this is my case as the dealer I bought the boat from is not specializing in AB dinghies, so most likely they got the boat just as it was ordered and she was assembled before it got to the dealer.

Thank you for the tips on prevention. Regardless who and how the issue will be fixed, prevention methods is something that will be necessary to avoid future problems.

Question regarding the parts (assuming that I will have to tackle the issue on my own). Do you guys think that it might be worth the trouble of taking the parts off and sending to a special metal shop for proper cleaning a do some special re-coating? Or would it be a waste of time and money considering that these are cheap china made low grade SS parts?
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:07 PM   #30
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I agree with bedding, also your stearing wheel is a very common model and on MANY boats and even that's rusted, so I can kinda understand the company wondering if you are really washing down the boat or is it sitting in a salt soup.
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Old 03-13-2014, 02:51 PM   #31
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Other people here have said a lot of stainless stuff these days gets a surface rust and is especially bad around the edges whether bedded or not...probably the poor finishing job on edges and low grade stainless...whether the inflatable manufacturer will do anything is anybody's guess...but I wouldn't stop trying if I was truly dissatisfied.

I'm walking around a marina doing laundry as I'm on and off this forum and there's lots of rust on stainless on boats all around me...many have been sitting for at least the month and a half I was gone from here..so no "salt soup" and it's been getting plenty of fresh water rain on it...

Granted, some boats look pretty good...but then again...high end boats with super wax jobs...maybe the stainless gets done too.
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Old 03-13-2014, 03:13 PM   #32
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Question regarding the parts (assuming that I will have to tackle the issue on my own). Do you guys think that it might be worth the trouble of taking the parts off and sending to a special metal shop for proper cleaning a do some special re-coating? Or would it be a waste of time and money considering that these are cheap china made low grade SS parts?
If you were to take it to a shop you would ask for electropolishing, which is kind of like electroplating in reverse because metal is removed instead of deposited.

Doing a PMI test would tell you if it is 304, 316 or some other grade.

I can do this stuff for nearly free myself. Not really sure if it would be worth paying for...
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Old 03-13-2014, 06:12 PM   #33
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From the pictures , the only things that appear to need replacing are the U bolts, their mounting plates and some other bolts. Not worth "fixing". Everything else can be cleaned up with products like Metal Wax or Flitz before, if necessary, rebedding.
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Old 03-13-2014, 10:56 PM   #34
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fairly new boat...some things rusting...other stuff not....
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:07 AM   #35
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Finally saw the pictures on a laptop. They were teeny tiny on my phone. I think you have some cheap nylock nuts and fasteners on the backing side, and it is leeching through the un-bedded hardware.

I'd remove the hardware, toss the cheap fasteners, bed it properly with Sika 291/292 or butyl rubber and be done with it.

Nevermind my previous ramblings (but you probably already did)...
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Old 03-14-2014, 01:32 AM   #36
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I might skip chasing the rep around and just take the dealer to small claims court for the cost of replacing the hardeware. I understand it's the manufacterer problem, but a good dealer should represent you when dealing with manufacturer warranties. Your dealer is your local manufacurers representative. A good dealer would also make things right, even if the manufacturer bails on you. I wouldn't be surprised if they fixed everything for you before your day in court. I would be very upset about that rust if I had paid 22.5k and had those issues.
I'm not a litigious person , but you might just avoid a bunch of unneeded stress by choosing that route instead , especially if you are not being treated properly.
If you were my customer and dropped that kind of money in my business, I would consider your problem an opportunity to earn a lifelong customer.
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Old 03-14-2014, 03:16 AM   #37
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Nothing about it makes me think the major problem is the stainless steel hardware. Yes, there may a little rust on it. But I think it's what is beyond the hardware, the attachment. And it takes very little rust there to spread heavily over the boat.

I would remove a couple to see what you find out. Then you might well be able to convince them to remount them if that will solve it.

As to a legal case, I know it's easy for people to say "sue" and even easy to do so in small claims. However, what you're suing under is implied merchantibility. This requires a rather heavy burden on your part to prevail.

Your first problem is that there is a written warranty which very specifically talks about hardware and about various cosmetic issues. It would be hard to say they implied no problems by selling it to you when actually they implied there could be problems by not warrantying them longer.

Second is merchantibility. To prevail in that area you have to prove that the item, in this case the boat, is not suitable to be used in the normal manner of a boat such as it. The boat is usable however. There is nothing preventing normal use.

This is most similar in nature to car paint deteriorating in fewer years than it should or fading or to gelcoat's or paint on boats fading. Fading of the color on the tubes even. But this is even smaller in nature than those things and more easily corrected in all probability. And plaintiffs don't win in those cases either. And what is the number one reason given for the car paint by the manufacturer? Salt on the roads during winter. Which complicates things further as you can't prove you took proper care. I'm not doubting you did. Just you can't prove it.

Now my recommendation then is:
1. Figure out the problem. Remove a couple and check.
2. Armed with that information then go talk to the dealer in person. Not by phone. Phone you're an object, in person you're humanized. Appeal to them for assistance.
3. If that fails go back to the manufacturer with the facts. Also telling them the dealer has examined the items and concurs with you, if in fact that's the case.
---It may be that ultimately all you're after is some labor and perhaps nuts and washers which they'd be far more likely to assist on than replacing all the stainless steel. Yes, the dealer should have wanted to do what I'm telling you to do, but take that step and I think your odds improve dramatically. Plus you might find out who is at fault in the process.

Good luck in getting it addressed.

Oh and you need to know the problem anyway, even if you litigated. In suit you have to prove the amount of the loss and damages if you win. It's not the entire cost of the boat. It could be washers and nuts or could be stainless rails, and it's labor too. But you'd have to either provide a receipt or a quotation for the cost of fixing it by a reputable business.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:53 AM   #38
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Walking to the laundry room yesterday...what appears to be a new, nice and well kept boat....
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:52 AM   #39
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Walking to the laundry room yesterday...what appears to be a new, nice and well kept boat....
...with low cost, low quality fasteners and bad weld prep, filler material, and dilution rate.

We live in a world where counterfeiting is rampant and people are unwilling to pay for quality.

Go look at the older boats and you won't see that.
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Old 03-14-2014, 10:16 AM   #40
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...with low cost, low quality fasteners and bad weld prep, filler material, and dilution rate.

We live in a world where counterfeiting is rampant and people are unwilling to pay for quality.

Go look at the older boats and you won't see that.
Agree with you as I posted in post #7 ....

"To be fair...that level of rust is pretty commonplace on MANY stainless accessories and rails on new boats...stinks but I can see where the manufacturer is trying to basically say what I am....

I hope that not all stainless out there does this...but many of the parts including my recently installed swim step ladder looked like that in months after install. It doesn't get worse...but does look like your pics. "
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