Going WAY Outside

[SailorBruce]

I am currently in the final stages of a long purchase process for a DeFever POC that will primarily be used for costal cruising and as a second home near work. If the survey goes as I anticipate, (the buy inspection was very positive) I will very soon find myself needing to move the vessel to her new home, about 650 miles away.

The question I have is this. Were the late-80s DeFever POCs designed or ever intended for open-ocean passages? I come from an offshore sailing background and have done numerous passages in and around the Atlantic. I have raced to Bermuda, delivered sailboats from the Caribbean, and moved up and through the Gulf Stream many times. I also have reliable and dedicated crew that have done most of these adventures with me. I am extremely confident in the experience level I can bring to the delivery, but I'm curious if a straight shot from south Florida to Norfolk is within the original design brief of the POC.

Do people commonly "ditch the ditch" and hitch the Gulf Stream when headed north?

 

[DavidM]

While I don't have a clue what a POC is, I think that most trawlers could make the passage you are considering, safely. Just check the weather every day and have a bail out inlet/port in mind for the far offshore segments of the passage.


If you take the rhumb route then you will be about 200 SM offshore at the farthest point. You can make it to shore in 24 hours if the forecast goes south. But if you follow the stream, it will be even shorter to shore.


Most Defevers and similar boats have semi-displacement hulls with little or no ballast and windows that won't stand up in a real storm. But I think you can easily stay away from a real storm.


David

 

[gsholz]

I would not take any "new to me" boat on an extended offshore cruise until I had at least a few hundred miles of close-in cruising experience with the boat. The issue is you do not know what you do not know about your "new" boat.

 

[menzies]

Will the boat have the "legs" to do that run given tankage and burn?

 

[O C Diver]

You can still take advantage of the Gulfstream without being that far offshore for FL, GA, SC. Staying closer won't add that much to the voyage. As others have mentioned, that's quite a distance offshore for your first major cruise with a new to you boat.

Ted

 

[psneeld]

Agree with the don't take a new boat to me on an adventure club sentiments ....plus....doesn't that line take you across the stream 2X? I agree that closer to shore won't add that much distance...but do the chart work and see.

If not ....no matter. Then sure, most trawlers with enough fuel range could do it, you just want to be dang sure about your weather window, good insurance and an EPIRB plus backup.

Me, I prefer to stay within 100 miles of the coast because I know the strengths and weaknesses of USCG helos.

 

[Comodave]

The POC stands for Performance Offshore Cruiser. Having said that I am not sure I would undertake that route especially if the boat was new to me. Some of the POCs have large fuel tanks, saw one with optional tanks with 2000 gallons.

 

[diver dave]

I would hang close to FL until around St Aug or so before going far offshore. But first I’d :
Bet darn sure what was in all fuel tanks by inspection.
Have long range comm.
Look for any water in vital fluids while still close to shore.

This is just the stuff beyond a good initial survey

 

[Maerin]

Count me as being in the stay closer to shore with an unfamiliar boat group. There's not that much advantage to taking a straight line shot. And, no, northbound travelers don't often "ditch the ditch". You can ride the gulf stream and take advantage of the current boost without being 200 nm off the coast. Ditto all the cautions about a "new to you" boat. 200 mi. offshore is not the place you want to be discovering all those little problems that are sure to show up in the first week of operation.

 

[GFC]

As Karl Malden would say: "Don't leave home without it."

 

[JohnEasley]

I would not take any "new to me" boat on an extended offshore cruise until I had at least a few hundred miles of close-in cruising experience with the boat. The issue is you do not know what you do not know about your "new" boat.

Yeah. That.

 

[SailorBruce]

Sorry that my visual shorthand led folks to believe I would do anything other than stay right in the middle of the Gulf Stream (assuming no northerly wind systems of course). As a sailor I am intimately familiar with the idea that the shortest line isn’t necessarily the fastest path. I was just too lazy to draw a curved line, but wanted to make sure the forum understood I wasn’t talking about taking short hops outside between inlets—something that is obviously an option.

My real question for others with experience with these 53 POC hulls is if they were ever envisioned for this scale of passage. Logistics (like life raft, EPIRB, sat phone, fuel blivets, etc) are all solvable problems, but trying to use the wrong tool for a job is hard to overcome.

Obviously I will need to get some familiarity with the boat before I embark on any trip. I’m not sure how delivery captains are willing to just get the keys, slip the lines, and head out to the unknown. I think it might be why they all have such great sea stories....

 

[BandB]

With a boat new to me, I would have a towing membership and stay within their range for at least the first couple of days. Running up the coast on the outside is really simple up to NC. You can monitor weather and quickly get to safety if you need to. You can take a shorter cut once you reach northern Florida if you wish.

On the NC coast you then face a decision of going around Hatteras vs. taking the Virginia Cut. As much as we love running offshore instead of the ICW, we go from Beaufort to Norfolk on the inside at least 70% of the time. The first reason won't likely apply to you but we prefer to run daytime and only 10-12 hours maximum when cruising. We're not making delivery runs. However, for a boat the speed you're talking, the Virginia Cut really doesn't take any more time than running outside and the area outside of Hatteras can be rough and can become so rather quickly. Plus, depending on your destination, going outside there can add time on the "Norfolk" end.

 

[Gulf Comanche]

I would not take any "new to me" boat on an extended offshore cruise until I had at least a few hundred miles of close-in cruising experience with the boat. The issue is you do not know what you do not know about your "new" boat.

This is very good advice, you’d best heed it. Ive had my boat for 10 years now and am still learning about the many things that can mess you up. Good luck with the new boat.

 

[Martin J]

POC = Performance Offshore Cruiser

 

[Capt Bill 3]

Funny no one mentioned stabilizers. I have a DeFever 49’ CMY with out stabilizing, you bet I would not go outside without stabilizing. On all other counts the vessel is quite capable. But as everyone else has said stay reasonably close to the coast. The route from Beaufort to Norfolk Is actually prettty Interesting. Make sure your tanks are clean and have fun.

 

[menzies]

...The route from Beaufort to Norfolk Is actually prettty Interesting.

Apart from the A&P canal!!

 

[Tom.B]

Apart from the A&P canal!!

Man, you really have an aversion to that, don't you? :lol:

 

[Tom.B]

On the NC coast you then face a decision of going around Hatteras vs. taking the Virginia Cut. As much as we love running offshore instead of the ICW, we go from Beaufort to Norfolk on the inside at least 70% of the time.

I'd agree with this. Not to mention, the sea-state going around Hatteras is pretty unpredictable (the words: Graveyard of the Atlantic come to mind). Run inside to Beaufort, then make the jump.

 

[High Wire]

My fear with a new to me boat is fuel tank mung. You won’t know if or how bad unless you do an inspection or put in some hours in rough conditions. One other thing is an inventory of spares. I would want water pump impellers and fuel filters to reach safe harbor if things went wrong.
Plot out waypoints along the western edge of the stream.
Don’t forget a mask and snorkel.

 

[twistedtree]

I’d do as you plan and follow the Gulf Stream. I think that will also keep you relatively close to the shore for the first few hundred miles and provide bailout opportunity in case of issues. The whole “unproven boat” concern is real and needs to be factored in. Biggest risk is probably crap in the tanks getting stirred up if the seas pick up, causing a stall when you least need it.

 

[sdowney717]

While I don't have a clue what a POC is, I think that most trawlers could make the passage you are considering, safely. Just check the weather every day and have a bail out inlet/port in mind for the far offshore segments of the passage.


If you take the rhumb route then you will be about 200 SM offshore at the farthest point. You can make it to shore in 24 hours if the forecast goes south. But if you follow the stream, it will be even shorter to shore.


Most Defevers and similar boats have semi-displacement hulls with little or no ballast and windows that won't stand up in a real storm. But I think you can easily stay away from a real storm.

David

Yes, people don't think about the windows breaking during a storm offshore do they, but they can. I have read 1/4 glass is bad choice, but they have formulas for that. Some boats you can bolt on storm covers, I have no room for storing such things on the boat. Drenched with cold sea water inside the cabin, how is that going to be good for the electrics, or maybe flood the boat.
https://www.morganscloud.com/2014/12/27/qa-safety-of-large-pilothouse-windows/

The Best Answer
The ultimate answer is to be able to isolate the area with large windows from the rest of the boat with a watertight hatch. Not easy or cheap to do—and pretty near impossible for a raised salon boat.

Storm Covers Recommended
For a boat with large windows that can’t implement the above option, and unless the builder could give me credible assurance that the windows were engineered to take the impact from a free fall of the boat onto water of say 15 feet, I would want to see really massive storm covers for every large window or port—say over 2.5 sq ft (.23 m2) in area.

Of course the fastening method must be equally massive. I would suggest plenty of machine screws of at least 1/4″ (6 mm) diameter into threaded plates at least 3/8″ (10 mm) thick, which are in turn bolted through the structure around the window frame.

I would also like to see an airspace between the port and the cover of at least 1/2″ (12 mm) so that flexing of the cover when struck does not smash the port.

 

[High Wire]

Oh yea, its hurricane season too.

 

[Capt Bill 3]

Good reason for staying close to shore.

 

[ksanders]

Sorry if I sound like Mr Obvious here but what’s wrong with cruising the ICW?

It’s protected, lots of places to stop, places to get a boat part if you need it.

I just see zero reason to venture into bigger seas if you can get to the same place by staying in calm water.

 

[BandB]

Sorry if I sound like Mr Obvious here but what’s wrong with cruising the ICW?

It’s protected, lots of places to stop, places to get a boat part if you need it.

I just see zero reason to venture into bigger seas if you can get to the same place by staying in calm water.

It's shallow in areas and it's slow. He's doing a delivery run and going outside is much quicker and easier. There isn't a major issue with cruising outside. Only challenging area he faces is Hatteras and several of us have recommended inside from Beaufort to Norfolk. The other recommendation was that since it's a new boat to him to cruise close enough to shore for at least the first couple of days so as to be within a tow area if needed.

 

[Capt Bill 3]

Because it usually takes a lot longer. Some people do not understand the purpose of boating, “It’s the ride”.

 

[Benthic2]

So everyone is on the same page....here's a picture of a 1987 53' Defever POC:

 

[ksanders]

It's shallow in areas and it's slow. He's doing a delivery run and going outside is much quicker and easier. There isn't a major issue with cruising outside. Only challenging area he faces is Hatteras and several of us have recommended inside from Beaufort to Norfolk. The other recommendation was that since it's a new boat to him to cruise close enough to shore for at least the first couple of days so as to be within a tow area if needed.

OK, Thanks!

Funny, the only people Ive ever seen get into deep kimchie were people on a delivery run...myself included.

I’d putt and enjoy the trip.

 

[bnoft]

Trying to address the original question, a friend of mind had a POC and regularly moved it from south FL to Long Island every year, always off shore. Solid boat and capable. Obviously, he didn't try to outrun a hurricane.