Defever 44 vs Krogen 42

[jrs1958]

I am in the process of buying a stabilized 44 Defever that has everything I need to cruise the Bahamas, FL Keys, East Coast etc. I can do the intercoastal or if I want or need to can do off shore runs. What I love about this boat is the room and split sleeping arrangement. I get up very early and if I sleep up front I won't bother the bride. The engine room is huge and everything is accessible.

I also was looking at the 42' Krogen but couldn't find one that suited me. The krogen is less to operate but doesn't have the maneuverability or reliability of two engines. I found a clean krogen manatee that I almost bought but decided against it because I want the ability to go offshore.

In my opinion if both are stabilized they should be similar sea boats. I know the krogen has crossed oceans. I know the Defever has travelled throughout the Caribbean. Does anyone know if a Defever 44 has ever crossed an ocean. It has 950 gallons of fuel so I would think it's capable if you go 6 knots.

Do most agree that these two designs are similar in sea keeping abilities?

 

[Bay Pelican]

Seem to recall that the air draft on the DeFever 44 was too high to do the Great Loop or go though the Hudson to the Great Lakes. My memory may not be correct but this is a drawback which you may or may not care about.

 

[jrs1958]

The one I'm buying is a loop veteran. Not sure the route they took. Not that important to me. I love travel but get tired of rivers etc.

 

[jrs1958]

I was looking at fuel tanks on this 44 and they look like Fiberglas to me. Did they make the 44 with Fiberglas fuel tanks?

 

[angus99]

jrs, the tanks are steel encased in fiberglass. Many 44's have done the Loop, as we plan to one of these days. We love both the Krogen 42 and the Defever 44 and went out on many of both while we were searching. In the end we went with the Defever for many of the reasons you cited. There's a ton of info on the Defever Cruisers site. Good luck.

 

[Drake]

Seem to recall that the air draft on the DeFever 44 was too high to do the Great Loop or go though the Hudson to the Great Lakes. My memory may not be correct but this is a drawback which you may or may not care about.

He can always lower the arch. That gets him down to 16' or less.

 

[angus99]

He can always lower the arch. That gets him down to 16' or less.

Less, I think. Pretty sure the air draft of a 44 is 17-18' with the arch up (not counting anchor light, radar array, etc). From what I recall, most people take the Oswego Canal to avoid low bridges on the western part of the Erie. The other workaround is the CalSag canal to avoid a low fixed bridge near Chicago. Otherwise most 44s do fine on the Loop with the arch up.

 

[jrs1958]

So because the fuel and I think the water tanks are encased in fiberglass there aren't as many issues? Does anyone know if many of these tanks have failed. The boat I'm buying is a 1988 and has no teak decks anywhere. All the tanks look super dry from what I can access.

 

[jrs1958]

Has a Defever 44 ever crossed an ocean?

 

[angus99]

So because the fuel and I think the water tanks are encased in fiberglass there aren't as many issues? Does anyone know if many of these tanks have failed. The boat I'm buying is a 1988 and has no teak decks anywhere. All the tanks look super dry from what I can access.

Any tank can fail if they're not maintained properly, but I believe the glass-covered tanks, if built properly, add protection. I don't have numbers on Defever failures but if you're interested, the Defever Cruisers forum archives and magazine archives are full of info. You could also hire a tank cleaning and inspection service. I did for my '87 and, once the gunk was out, the tanks looked like new inside.

 

[angus99]

Has a Defever 44 ever crossed an ocean?

Think so, but I don't have a citation for you--and there may be a 44 or 49 (44 with a cockpit) that's crossed the Pacific. 44s have definitely crossed the GoM. Honestly though, if my plan was to cross oceans, I wouldn't be looking at Defevers or Krogens. They're both strong hulls and modified properly they'e capable of crossings in decent weather, but I wouldn't want to be on either boat when all hell breaks loose.

 

[jrs1958]

Just checking because these other manufacturers make such a big deal about it.
Bottom of the 44 looks like a 42 KK

 

[sunchaser]

Two things - the bottom of a Defever 44 is very different than a KK42, night and day in fact. Second, the DF 44 was never intended to cross oceans. Could the the DF 44/49 cross oceans, some actually have. Do a bit of research and you could find blogs detailing these trips. When Egret (N46) was in Chile they ran across a DF 44/49 and the NA owners had been traveling the SA coast for some time.

A trip aboard a Nordhavn and some detailed analysis will show you what a modern day yacht has and is to be an ocean crosser and used accordingly. No way is a DF 44/49 or a KK42 built to this standard. Why - it is expensive and this specific audience doesn't need the N's level of build or specifications.

Back to why a DF 44 is not an ocean crosser. Look no further than fuel burn, tankage, engine HP, class rating and things such at window designs. But, in the seas 99.9% of us choose to encounter the DF 44/49 design will perform admirably, as Art intended it to do. Don't fprget, the guy behind the wheel ultimately determines the boat's happenings

 

[jrs1958]

Just don't lose your stabilizers in the nordhavn. Two different owners in our marina lost them going to the Bahamas and said it was treacherous. Both owners sold their boat.
There is a video of a n40 that lost its stabilizers going on the Atlantic crossing. The cockpit gunwales are almost in the water.
The 46' nordhavn is one the most poorly laid out boats I've ever been on.
Maybe the larger nordhavns are better.

 

[BandB]

Just don't lose your stabilizers in the nordhavn. Two different owners in our marina lost them going to the Bahamas and said it was treacherous. Both owners sold their boat.
There is a video of a n40 that lost its stabilizers going on the Atlantic crossing. The cockpit gunwales are almost in the water.
The 46' nordhavn is one the most poorly laid out boats I've ever been on.
Maybe the larger nordhavns are better.

Many had stabilizer problems on the Atlantic Crossing. Supposedly, Nordhavn has since resolved those issues.

As to crossing in a sub 50' Nordhavn, I'd be no more inclined to do so than DF or KK and I would not hold them up as the example of "what a modern day yacht has and is to be an ocean crosser and used accordingly".

 

[dhays]

Has a Defever 44 ever crossed an ocean?

I think a more important question is "do you intend to cross oceans?" If you do, buy a boat for that purpose. If you don't intend to cross oceans, buy a boat that will suit for the type of cruising that you will be doing.

If you are going to buy a SUV to haul kids, groceries, and go skiing on the weekends, do you care if that SUV has crossed the Sahara?

 

[jrs1958]

Nordhavn and Krogen sure make a big deal out of it. It's a huge marketing strategy. Obviously if a 40' boat can cross an ocean it would be more comfortable in a moderate sea compared to a coastal boat. At least that's the insinuation from these manufacturers.

 

[BandB]

Nordhavn and Krogen sure make a big deal out of it. It's a huge marketing strategy. Obviously if a 40' boat can cross an ocean it would be more comfortable in a moderate sea compared to a coastal boat. At least that's the insinuation from these manufacturers.

A 12' boat can cross. Yes, Nordhavn and KK make a big deal with their marketing strategy. So do others like Outer Reef. So does Fleming. Many 40-50' Nordhavn's and KK's have crossed. However, read the stories of some and you'll have second thoughts about copying them. You're right about the implication that if one can cross an ocean will definitely be smoother in moderate seas. That's probably true in most cases but not in all.

 

[Bay Pelican]

Very few North American boat owners will take their boats past the Bahamas. Very few Australian boat owners will take their boats to New Zealand. If a person is planning either of those trips they need to be more concerned about seaworthiness then if they are doing coastal cruising.

The small pleasure cruising power boats we see in the Eastern Caribbean are all full displacement. (Ignoring locally based boats.) Perhaps it is a self selection thing where the owners bought the full displacement boat for that purpose.

Until I start seeing planing boats making the trip from Florida to Trinidad I would be suspicious that the owners of small planing boats don't feel comfortable in doing so. Theoretical discussions take second place to what I see with my eyes.

As to this thread the Defever 44 and the Krogen 42 are both excellent boats. I think the condition of the boat the buyer finds for sale would be more important than which one is the better boat.

 

[BandB]

Very few North American boat owners will take their boats past the Bahamas. Very few Australian boat owners will take their boats to New Zealand. If a person is planning either of those trips they need to be more concerned about seaworthiness then if they are doing coastal cruising.

The small pleasure cruising power boats we see in the Eastern Caribbean are all full displacement. (Ignoring locally based boats.) Perhaps it is a self selection thing where the owners bought the full displacement boat for that purpose.

Until I start seeing planing boats making the trip from Florida to Trinidad I would be suspicious that the owners of small planing boats don't feel comfortable in doing so. Theoretical discussions take second place to what I see with my eyes.

As to this thread the Defever 44 and the Krogen 42 are both excellent boats. I think the condition of the boat the buyer finds for sale would be more important than which one is the better boat.

We saw quite a few Sea Rays in the Northern part of the Eastern Caribbean. Haven't made it to Trinidad yet.

 

[Bay Pelican]

We saw quite a few Sea Rays in the Northern part of the Eastern Caribbean. Haven't made it to Trinidad yet.

Thanks for the tip. Was this Antigua or St. Martin? We have been up that way, usually in April for the Classics but haven't seen any. Do you remember when?

 

[hmason]

The only boat I would feel safe aboard crossing an ocean would be an ocean liner. If I "theoretically" had to cross an ocean on a pleasure craft it would be on the biggest, most well equipped, self righting sailboat that was purpose built for that voyage. Maybe an Oyster or a Swan?

I was once on a cruise ship heading from California to Hawaii. I was standing on our terrace watching a beautiful sunset when the ship passed a sailboat which was some distance off our port side. It was under full sail. My guess is it was between 50 and 60 feet in length. Problem for me was that despite its size, it looked like a toothpick floating in an endless sea. That ended any desire I might have had to be an adventurer.

 

[BandB]

Thanks for the tip. Was this Antigua or St. Martin? We have been up that way, usually in April for the Classics but haven't seen any. Do you remember when?

Saw some and talked with others there. The larger number were in the USVI and PR. Quite a few in both of those areas. Then would see a straggler here and there in St. Marteen/St. Marten and even St. Kitts. We didn't make it further but did run across one in the USVI that had been down as far as Saint Lucia. Definitely not my choice of boat for the area but most of the time it was like cruising on the outside of the East Coast. If you're uncomfortable going outside and prefer the ICW or don't like crossing the gulf stream, then not for you.

I have a friend who delivered a Sea Ray Sundancer 510 to the USVI this spring. The owner had purchased it in Florida and wanted it for use in the USVI but wasn't about to take it there himself.

 

[Bay Pelican]

I have a friend who delivered a Sea Ray Sundancer 510 to the USVI this spring. The owner had purchased it in Florida and wanted it for use in the USVI but wasn't about to take it there himself.

Heard similar stories from the other planing local boats in the Eastern Caribbean. Also we see a good number of good size sport fisherman which I assume are planing boats.

 

[BandB]

Heard similar stories from the other planing local boats in the Eastern Caribbean. Also we see a good number of good size sport fisherman which I assume are planing boats.

Yes, lot's of SF's and lot's of SF charters and some larger center consoles. 37' Calypso's are popular in the VI. The other SF charters are typically on the small side. Still a lot of Bertram's.

 

[Capt.Bill11]

Obviously if a 40' boat can cross an ocean it would be more comfortable in a moderate sea compared to a coastal boat.

Not necessarily. Comfort is not automatically a function of the ability to go a long distance.

 

[jrs1958]

44' Defever didn't work out. Surveying a 48' Defever. Hope this is the one!