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Old 09-22-2013, 10:37 AM   #21
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I hesitated to post because it is a while since I looked at the N46. My recollection is that these boats have very small engine rooms. If my memory serves me correctly, access was though the back of the shower stall or a small floor hatch. Either access point would barely permit ingress for myself as a normal sized 180lb male. If you have not been on board either vessel, would strongly suggest taking a look. The one I remember would have made routine maintenance a nightmare!!
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:37 AM   #22
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Finally I would suggest you dig deep and really understand how you plan to use the boat and if the N46 is the right boat for you. Best of luck
Damn good advice!
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:29 AM   #23
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I hesitated to post because it is a while since I looked at the N46. My recollection is that these boats have very small engine rooms. If my memory serves me correctly, access was though the back of the shower stall or a small floor hatch. Either access point would barely permit ingress for myself as a normal sized 180lb male. If you have not been on board either vessel, would strongly suggest taking a look. The one I remember would have made routine maintenance a nightmare!!
There are two configurations of the N46 from what I understand so far. One has the master amidships and guest bedroom foreword, and the other config is flip flopped with the smaller guest cabin amidships. With the master in the middle the access to part of the engine room is actually through a door in the shower of the master cabin. I have not been on his config yet, and I have to admit that it sounds kind of strange. I am scheduled to go see an N46 with this layout and one of my concerns is engine room access and room to do maintenance, especially as this boat also has the wing engine.

I have been aboard an N46 with the master forward layout, and engine room access is through a door in the guest cabin as well as through hatches in the salon. No shower door access. I spent some time crawling around that engine room and it was cramped but well laid out IMO. I think with the salon hatches off it would be OK for maintenance. I'm 6'2" and I def had to crawl around on hands and knees to get to either side of the main, but once there I had room to sit up and check things out.

But I do agree that the engine rooms are certainly not the boat's strongest feature to say the least.
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Old 09-22-2013, 11:50 AM   #24
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Damn good advice!
<i>Originally Posted by N4061
Finally I would suggest you dig deep and really understand how you plan to use the boat and if the N46 is the right boat for you. Best of luck</i>


This is the second time you have made this comment about making sure we really understand how we plan to use the boat, so I have to ask what it is I have said that is throwing up this red flag for you?

I think I have admitted that we are not initially going to need, nor do we have the experience for, all of the blue water capabilities of this boat. My thought process is I would rather have this capability so that if we eventually DECIDE we are ready for bigger adventures won't have to sell one boat and buy another. That's what I am trying to bypass by buying the second boat first, but maybe I am not looking at this correctly? I am trying to buy the most capable boat I can that still fits in my budget (the reason for the older Nordhavns).

Do I think this is the perfect Bahamas or great loop boat? No. Is it the perfect boat for my current shallow Gulf Coast area? Nope. Does it lack a fly bridge, and would I like to have one? Yes, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff for what I THINK I want to do later with the boat. Is there the possibility that I'm full of crap and wont actually use the boat for what it was really designed for? I suppose so, but I hope not.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:02 PM   #25
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I just realized I might sound a little like a Nordhavn champion with my posts on this thread, but I'm not stuck on Nordhavn. My thinking was trying to get the most capable boat for the money, and maybe by sticking to a known, quality brand that it might be easier to sell when we are ready to get out, or if plans changed for whatever reason.

I'm certainly open to ideas on other boats!
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:10 PM   #26
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Cardude

When several people have questiond wether the Nordhavn 46 is the right boat for you, what they were meaning is does the N46 fit your actual cruising plans.

The reason is that many people dream of cruising the south pacific for example, but those dreams never come true. Reality sets in and they end up with a cruising style that does not involve long bluewater passages.

We all know that all boats are a compromise. You can only fit so much space in so much length.

The Nordhavn boats make the compromise in favor of long distance cruising capability. Other boats make other compromises.

In order to demonstrate those compromises lets take the Nordhavn 46 and compare it to my Bayliner 4788.

I'm sitting in my 4788 right now and mentally comparing it to the Nordhavn 46 three slips away.

The Nordhavn 46 is much smaller inside. Much smaller. For example my pilothouse is twice the size of the Nordhavn pilothouse. I have a real captains chair. No room for this in the Nordhavn.

These comparisons could go on and on. The Nordhavn is a much smaller boat inside.

But, comfort isnt what the Nordhavn was built for. That boat could take off today for Seattle and not stop for fuel. I cant do that. I'd have to stop twice along the way.

The Nordhavn can comfortably go out in seas that would keep my boat tied to the dock.

The Nordhavn could and has circumnavigated the globe. I cant do that.

The Nordhavn is also a full displacement boat, 7 knots is it. I can cruise at 15 knots if I want. I can get twice as far on a weekend trip, or a week long trip than the Nordhavn. I made a 1500NM trip last year in 12 days. My son had 2 weeks of vacation, and we made the trip meet his available time. That would not happen in a Nordhavn.

So, if your actual (not your dream) cruising plans call for the things that the Nordhavns do best, then buy one, they are all great boats.

But, if your cruising plans could be acomplished with a boat that has more interior room, or more power, you might consider a different boat.

Remember that cruising is time aboard, and space = comfort when sitting at anchor, or tied to a dock with you and the admrial exploring a new place.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:18 PM   #27
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Cardude01

Having been on many Nordhavns and seriously made offers on them, not mentioned in the many good responses you have received is cost. Not only will you pay much more to purchase the boat than a similar sized very good heavy sea state boat like a DeFever, but the upkeep/refit cost to keep and bring a 15 to 25 year old Nordhavn to brand and blue water standard should be considered.

I'd liken it to the all in cost comparison of an older Beechcraft vs a Cessna or Toyota Highlander vs a BMW X5. IF you can afford it with no cost concerns buy the newer N46. If you are worried about the additional $100K of the newer, but likely cheaper in the long run vessel, you may not be a Nordhavn guy - yet.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:44 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
This is the second time you have made this comment about making sure we really understand how we plan to use the boat, so I have to ask what it is I have said that is throwing up this red flag for you?

Do I think this is the perfect Bahamas or great loop boat? No. Is it the perfect boat for my current shallow Gulf Coast area? Nope. Does it lack a fly bridge, and would I like to have one? Yes, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff for what I THINK I want to do later with the boat.
Your question is a fair one and deserves an honest response.

I bought my first big boat (48' Offshore Yacht Fisher) in 1995. I had ideas, dreams, etc. of cruising to Mexico and points beyond. I also thought that we would invite numerous friends to share the adventure with. None of it happened.

I then bought a boat (42' Ocean Alex) that had 20 knot cruise speed and a small guest stateroom. It was (and still is!) a great Southern California cruising boat. I fished it in Mexico, cruised all over SoCal and finally sold it in order to buy a 54' Sport fisher. (I would find out later that this (the 42' Ocean Alex) was the boat I should have kept as it fit the actual "mission" that my wife & I enjoyed.)

The decision to buy the sport fisher was based on a burning desire to join the Bill Fish tournaments in Mexico, Catalina. etc. The boat was just what one needed to compete on an equal basis with hard core bill fish anglers. I spent over $500K on this boat and never entered one tournament. I finally sold it and bought a smaller sport fisher (38') that more accurately matched my fishing habits. (Offshore, chasing Albacore, tuna, Yellow tail, etc.)Although I thought it was a great boat for that type of fishing, it was not so great when taking friends for a Bay tour or over nighting on a mooring in Catalina, which my wife loved to do.I had similar experiences with several successive boats, a total of 8 since 1995, before finally pinning down the exact mission the boat would see and we would be totally happy with.

At age 72, we use the boat for a lot of Bay cruising and Bay fishing, taking friends out for the 25 cent San Diego Harbor tour, fishing just a few hundred yards off shore for Halibut, watching Big Bay activities (4th of July, New years, etc.) and an infrequent cruise to Catalina Island.

That's the God's honest mission of SeaHorse II and she is exactly the boat I need for doing the above.

Do I have anything against the N46? NO!
Would I like one for going to Avalon & back? No
Would it be a great boat to fish from? No
Is it a great boat for taking friends sight seeing? No

It just doesn't fit the actual mission that I experience!

All I was attempting to impart was to share my own experience of buying the wrong boat because I hadn't really been honest with myself as to what it would be used for!
Go ahead and by the N46! My God, It doesn't affect me in the least! If you find it doesn't fit the mission you had in mind, sell it! I, and a few others, were just trying to share some real world experience with you and possibly save you some real money down the road.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:47 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by cardude01 View Post
This is the second time you have made this comment about making sure we really understand how we plan to use the boat, so I have to ask what it is I have said that is throwing up this red flag for you?

Do I think this is the perfect Bahamas or great loop boat? No. Is it the perfect boat for my current shallow Gulf Coast area? Nope. Does it lack a fly bridge, and would I like to have one? Yes, but I'm willing to make that tradeoff for what I THINK I want to do later with the boat.
Your question is a fair one and deserves an honest response.

I bought my first big boat (48' Offshore Yacht Fisher) in 1995. I had ideas, dreams, etc. of cruising to Mexico and points beyond. I also thought that we would invite numerous friends to share the adventure with. None of it happened.

I then bought a boat (42' Ocean Alex) that had 20 knot cruise speed and a small guest stateroom. It was (and still is!) a great Southern California cruising boat. I fished it in Mexico, cruised all over SoCal and finally sold it in order to buy a 54' Sport fisher. (I would find out later that this (the 42' Ocean Alex) was the boat I should have kept as it fit the actual "mission" that my wife & I enjoyed.)

The decision to buy the sport fisher was based on a burning desire to join the Bill Fish tournaments in Mexico, Catalina. etc. The boat was just what one needed to compete on an equal basis with hard core bill fish anglers. I spent over $500K on this boat and never entered one tournament. I finally sold it and bought a smaller sport fisher (38') that more accurately matched my fishing habits. (Offshore, chasing Albacore, tuna, Yellow tail, etc.)Although I thought it was a great boat for that type of fishing, it was not so great when taking friends for a Bay tour or over nighting on a mooring in Catalina, which my wife loved to do.I had similar experiences with several successive boats, a total of 8 since 1995, before finally pinning down the exact mission the boat would see and we would be totally happy with.

At age 72, we use the boat for a lot of Bay cruising and Bay fishing, taking friends out for the 25 cent San Diego Harbor tour, fishing just a few hundred yards off shore for Halibut, watching Big Bay activities (4th of July, New years, etc.) and an infrequent cruise to Catalina Island.

That's the God's honest mission of SeaHorse II and she is exactly the boat I need for doing the above.

Do I have anything against the N46? NO!
Would I like one for going to Avalon & back? No
Would it be a great boat to fish from? No
Is it a great boat for taking friends sight seeing? No

It just doesn't fit the actual mission that I experience!

All I was attempting to impart was to share my own experience of buying the wrong boat because I hadn't really been honest with myself as to what it would be used for!
Go ahead and by the N46! My God, It doesn't affect me in the least! If you find it doesn't fit the mission you had in mind, sell it! I, and a few others, were just trying to share some real world experience with you and possibly save you some real money down the road.

My perfect boat!
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:52 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
Cardude01

Having been on many Nordhavns and seriously made offers on them, not mentioned in the many good responses you have received is cost. Not only will you pay much more to purchase the boat than a similar sized very good heavy sea state boat like a DeFever, but the upkeep/refit cost to keep and bring a 15 to 25 year old Nordhavn to brand and blue water standard should be considered.
Good point!

The Defevers, the Hattaras LRC's, and a few others offer long range passagemaking capability, and can be pruchased at a cost, enough less than the Nordhavn to make or either a very nice refit, or enough cash in pocket to pay for probably a lifetime of fuel.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:56 PM   #31
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The question was asked "Are you suggesting the N46 is not the right boat for what we want to do?" Based on your desire to find your second boat now can bring mixed results. I base this on our experience of jumping from owning a number of smaller outboard and I/O boats to the N40 when I was in my early 40's. We were one of Nordhavn's youngest buyers and even with 25 years of boating experience this was big step for us. I looked at this move as "my retirement dream early in life" and looking back very glade we did. That being said I think if had owned another boat between the twenty something feet the Nordhavn I would have been better prepared for all the systems and size of the N40. The learning curve was steep and since only my wife and I were aboard there was no room for error which did result in more than one stressful adventure. These boats like other large trawlers can be complex and you need to ask yourself if you are mentally, financially and mechanically ready for this size and type of boat. Even with the two boats being new builds we had our share of the power going out in the middle of the night and crawling around with a flashlight for hours. Then there was smoke in the engine room on a coastal cruise. Then there was the time we got caught in the worst fog at the worst time and were stilling learning how to use and trust the new navigation equipment. Looking back now I can say those experiences along with many more made us better boaters and ready for our next boat but they were not fun. The N46 is in my opinion one of the safest ocean crossing boats built with the track record that proves it. We actually spent some time last year looking at the N46 and spoke with many owner about their boats before deciding the boat was little to big for us. I will not go into the pro's & con's we found since everyone has there own needs and opinions but I will say I love the N46.
I will now give you my opinion if I think the N46 is not the right boat for you. My answer is I don't know and neither does anyone else. If you were to ask if the N46 is a good choice for coastal cruising and crossing the Gulf I would say definitely. Remember you don't have to get very far off shore to run into rough weather and when you do you will be glade to be on the safest boat you can find. If I was you I would get aboard a N46 and go for as long a trip as you can and see how the boat feels. I would also look at the Nordhavn Dreamers web-site and ask the same questions you posted here. Many Nordhavn owners (present and past) will step in and help you. It is another great source of information as is this web-site.
Now I'll step out of line a little and suggest that if you want to learn more about the N46 I would call Jeff Merrill at Nordhavn (Dana Point, CA.) and explain to him where you are with your decision making process. I met Jeff back in 2001 and built our first N40 with him in 2005 followed by our second boat in 2007. He is a good family friend and has served as our life line 24/7 when we owned our boats and would be out cruising or just tied to the dock. He is one of the most knowledgeable and respected sales representatives at Nordhavn and will never pressure you into buying a boat, he just doesn't work that way. I hope this helps you a little. If you have more questions and would like to contact me off line please feel free to email me at N4061@yahoo.com

John T
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Old 09-22-2013, 04:19 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
Your question is a fair one and deserves an honest response.

I bought my first big boat (48' Offshore Yacht Fisher) in 1995. I had ideas, dreams, etc. of cruising to Mexico and points beyond. I also thought that we would invite numerous friends to share the adventure with. None of it happened.

I then bought a boat (42' Ocean Alex) that had 20 knot cruise speed and a small guest stateroom. It was (and still is!) a great Southern California cruising boat. I fished it in Mexico, cruised all over SoCal and finally sold it in order to buy a 54' Sport fisher. (I would find out later that this (the 42' Ocean Alex) was the boat I should have kept as it fit the actual "mission" that my wife & I enjoyed.)

The decision to buy the sport fisher was based on a burning desire to join the Bill Fish tournaments in Mexico, Catalina. etc. The boat was just what one needed to compete on an equal basis with hard core bill fish anglers. I spent over $500K on this boat and never entered one tournament. I finally sold it and bought a smaller sport fisher (38') that more accurately matched my fishing habits. (Offshore, chasing Albacore, tuna, Yellow tail, etc.)Although I thought it was a great boat for that type of fishing, it was not so great when taking friends for a Bay tour or over nighting on a mooring in Catalina, which my wife loved to do.I had similar experiences with several successive boats, a total of 8 since 1995, before finally pinning down the exact mission the boat would see and we would be totally happy with.

At age 72, we use the boat for a lot of Bay cruising and Bay fishing, taking friends out for the 25 cent San Diego Harbor tour, fishing just a few hundred yards off shore for Halibut, watching Big Bay activities (4th of July, New years, etc.) and an infrequent cruise to Catalina Island.

That's the God's honest mission of SeaHorse II and she is exactly the boat I need for doing the above.

Do I have anything against the N46? NO!
Would I like one for going to Avalon & back? No
Would it be a great boat to fish from? No
Is it a great boat for taking friends sight seeing? No

It just doesn't fit the actual mission that I experience!

All I was attempting to impart was to share my own experience of buying the wrong boat because I hadn't really been honest with myself as to what it would be used for!
Go ahead and by the N46! My God, It doesn't affect me in the least! If you find it doesn't fit the mission you had in mind, sell it! I, and a few others, were just trying to share some real world experience with you and possibly save you some real money down the road.

My perfect boat!

I get your point, and it is a valid one. I am looking at a boat for what I THINK I will use it for in the future, but not necessarily what I need for right now.

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Old 09-22-2013, 04:22 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
The question was asked "Are you suggesting the N46 is not the right boat for what we want to do?" Based on your desire to find your second boat now can bring mixed results. I base this on our experience of jumping from owning a number of smaller outboard and I/O boats to the N40 when I was in my early 40's. We were one of Nordhavn's youngest buyers and even with 25 years of boating experience this was big step for us. I looked at this move as "my retirement dream early in life" and looking back very glade we did. That being said I think if had owned another boat between the twenty something feet the Nordhavn I would have been better prepared for all the systems and size of the N40. The learning curve was steep and since only my wife and I were aboard there was no room for error which did result in more than one stressful adventure. These boats like other large trawlers can be complex and you need to ask yourself if you are mentally, financially and mechanically ready for this size and type of boat. Even with the two boats being new builds we had our share of the power going out in the middle of the night and crawling around with a flashlight for hours. Then there was smoke in the engine room on a coastal cruise. Then there was the time we got caught in the worst fog at the worst time and were stilling learning how to use and trust the new navigation equipment. Looking back now I can say those experiences along with many more made us better boaters and ready for our next boat but they were not fun. The N46 is in my opinion one of the safest ocean crossing boats built with the track record that proves it. We actually spent some time last year looking at the N46 and spoke with many owner about their boats before deciding the boat was little to big for us. I will not go into the pro's & con's we found since everyone has there own needs and opinions but I will say I love the N46.
I will now give you my opinion if I think the N46 is not the right boat for you. My answer is I don't know and neither does anyone else. If you were to ask if the N46 is a good choice for coastal cruising and crossing the Gulf I would say definitely. Remember you don't have to get very far off shore to run into rough weather and when you do you will be glade to be on the safest boat you can find. If I was you I would get aboard a N46 and go for as long a trip as you can and see how the boat feels. I would also look at the Nordhavn Dreamers web-site and ask the same questions you posted here. Many Nordhavn owners (present and past) will step in and help you. It is another great source of information as is this web-site.
Now I'll step out of line a little and suggest that if you want to learn more about the N46 I would call Jeff Merrill at Nordhavn (Dana Point, CA.) and explain to him where you are with your decision making process. I met Jeff back in 2001 and built our first N40 with him in 2005 followed by our second boat in 2007. He is a good family friend and has served as our life line 24/7 when we owned our boats and would be out cruising or just tied to the dock. He is one of the most knowledgeable and respected sales representatives at Nordhavn and will never pressure you into buying a boat, he just doesn't work that way. I hope this helps you a little. If you have more questions and would like to contact me off line please feel free to email me at N4061@yahoo.com

John T
Wow. Thank you for the excellent advice. I sent you a PM.

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Old 09-23-2013, 10:11 AM   #34
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My wife and I own 46 hull 37, a 1994 model. We have lived a board for 7 years and cruised the West coast from Alaska to Mexico, over 15K miles. Our boat hast the master stateroom forward (plan B), a wing engine and paravane stabilizers.

The 46 is a great boat, we love ours and we can't imagine being on a different boat. That being said, there are many great boats out there and all you can do is look at as many boats as you can until you find 'your' boat. You need to keep looking at as many boats as possible and learning about all the possibilities. We looked for our Nordhavn for 4 years before we found the right one. It's amazing how different each 46 can be. You need to look at a lot of boats before you decide.

I don't think Frog Kiss is a one owner boat. I think she was listed for sale 7 or 8 years ago. Talk to a salesman at Nordhavn to find out. Frog Kiss is a well used and cared for boat. I have followed their travels for many years. I feel that a well used and well cared for boat is a better boat to buy than a lightly used one. Our boat has 6500 hours on the main, a John Deere, and it still runs great and doesn't burn any oil. I think you'll find most 46's are well cared for and in good condition.

As far as being right for you mission, only you can decide. If you haven't spent a lot of time on a boat you'll learn a lot in the first few years. I'm the type of person that thinks if you feel it's right for you, go for it. Having the capability to travel long distances can be nice to have. We don't think twice about heading out on a 1000 nm trip up or down the coast. We keep our boat in good condition and we never worry about the boat being able to handle the sea conditions. It's always a matter of what we can handle, not the boat.

The engine room is a little small but that's the price you pay for the low profile of the boat. The hull shape is very efficient and sea worthy, very similar to a sailboat hull shape. You can always get into the engine room via the hatches in the main salon.

I think that the older 46 is a bargain in this market. For the money you're getting a rock solid boat that can take you anywhere. If you want a weekend boat, buy something else but you can't go wrong with the 46.

You can contact me if you need more specific info. Good luck.
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:12 PM   #35
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Cardude,

You said it-"I really would like a fly bridge"

That's a big item to ignore. As many have already said, I would take a careful look at your needs and find something that satisfies most of them

Good luck
Richard
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Old 09-23-2013, 01:25 PM   #36
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In my 17 years of boat and yacht sales I have noticed a direct relationship between the initial cost of a boat with the maintenance that it receives. Grand Banks or Nordhavn owners would spend more for maintenance than a typical Marine Trader owner. After ten years or more this starts to lesson as both boats need more but the person who can afford a more expensive builder might be able to afford for more care. A Nordhavn might have had better care.

Remember Walter Mitty? Walter was a character in James Thurber stories and movies were made of these stories many years ago. Walter was a daydreamer who would be climbing a small hill in in a park and then suddenly he was climbing Mount Everest or he was in a row boat then suddenly in command of a battleship, all daydreams. Many Nordhavn buyers have a bit of Walter Mitty in them, dreaming of those long offshore passages, make sure your dreams can match your reality.
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Old 09-23-2013, 05:22 PM   #37
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City: Mazatlan
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Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy View Post
Many Nordhavn buyers have a bit of Walter Mitty in them, dreaming of those long offshore passages
I would say that is a bit of an understatement.

A toast to Mr. Mitty from all of the Nordhavn owners, myself included.
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Old 09-23-2013, 07:15 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by yachtbrokerguy View Post
Many Nordhavn buyers have a bit of Walter Mitty in them, dreaming of those long offshore passages, make sure your dreams can match your reality.
Wish I would have thought of that as THAT is exactly what I'm talking about when I say "give considerable thought to what the actual mission of the boat will be."
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