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Old 02-07-2015, 12:37 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Boydski View Post
I find the location of master stateroom in the middle of the boat to be far more comfortable both at sea and at anchor. Far less motion at sea and no chain or wave slap noise at anchor.

I think useful to list all the "features" I want on a boat, similar to this example, and then go looking at boats with those features. No matter about size, brand, style... at first. Our must-have features were things like a flying bridge, stairs (not a ladder) to the flying bridge, a cockpit with transom door and swim platform (for the First Mutt), etc. Surprising how quickly some of that homes us in on the few candidate boats that were available at the time.


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Since you are both tall and desiring to live aboard and obviously have the means to afford a late model Nordhavn. Why not look into the late model DeFever?
And maybe a Fleming?


Of course I certainly wouldn't turn down a Nordhavn, assuming it has the right features

-Chris
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:39 PM   #22
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Thanks Oliver; we sure loved the one we saw.
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:41 PM   #23
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Ksanders is providing you some real good insight and advice. You can get a very good 47' Bayliner for under $200K. They are roomy and comfortable and will easily take you to the Bahamas and the Keys. You will need to pay closer attention to weather windows when going outside due to lack of stabilization. The draft of the Bayliner is under 4'. You could do the ICW and the Loop also. And you will have two engines for peace of mind.

In the sailboat world, there is a boat called an Island Packet which is a well known blue water sailboat. (Note - Cardude has a moterized or trawlerized version of the Island Packet sailboat). I like to think of the Island Packet as the Nordhavn of the sailboat world. A lot of first time owners hear of Island Packet, decide they have to have one and buy it only to later find out they really don't have the experience to handle the IP. They subsequently end up on the resale market where real sailors pick them up.

The Nordhavn is a wonderful boat and is in high demand. You end up paying a big time premium for the name and the perceived quality and desirability of the boat. I like them as much as you do but when I look around the market place, I know I can get a Baylinner 47' or an Endeavour 44' Trawlercat for a fraction of what the Nordhavn would cost.

My thought is to do what Ksanders has suggested. Keep the home and start out much more modestly to be certain living on the water is what you really want to do. At the end of 4-5 years, you could revisit the Nordhavn dream or you would still have your house if you find sea life isn't what you thought it would be.
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:44 PM   #24
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I like your list ranger42c. I was actually thinking of compiling one and now I will.
Donsan I agree with you and ksanders and others. I will keep the search open. Have starting looking at the boats mentioned.
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:45 PM   #25
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I strongly believe you should buy the BIGGEST boat you can manage, not the smallest. Boats get smaller over time, not bigger. What seems huge when you first step aboard will almost immediately seem normal, and over time you will be looking for more space. For every person who down-sizes their boat, at least 10 people up-size.

Your first encounter with a bigger boat is typically one of awe and intimidation by it's size. I think this leads to people buying too small to begin with, and quickly leads to the desire to upgrade. And I think people upgrading tend to do so in too small increments. I don't think anything less than 5' is meaningful, and 10-15' is a healthy upgrade. So unless you like shopping for and buying boats every few years, don't be intimidated by size. It will pass VERY quickly. Let cost, upkeep, and maintenance be stronger guides.

As to the specific question, I don't even think it's a questions. I think the 40 is the cutest thing and packs a lot into that size, but I would never even consider living on one, let alone trying to work on it myself. I'm 6'3" and 225lbs so still smaller than your hubby, and it was hard enough fitting into spaces on my Grand Banks '47, and still pretty challenging getting into spaces on my Nordy 60. And even in the living space, it's just nice to have some elbow room.

So I'd go 47' - no brainer.

And since I'm spending your money, have you looked much at the 55? It's obviously more $$, but many I think are a really good value. And you get some really nice features over the 47. The separate ultility room and access to the ER I think is key. That way one can do ER checks or otherwise be in and out of the ER with out disterbing someone trying to sleep in the master stateroom. For an overnight passage, that's key. The other huge plus is the extra cabin and day head in the "tree house" behind the pilot house. For overnights, it is again hugely beneficial to be able to hop into the little cabin to sleep, be isolated from the PH so you can actually sleep, yet be right at hand should you be needed by whoever is on watch. I think it is way preferable to the jump bed behind the PH settee. And you pick up a 3rd cabin at the same time. But how much you are willing to spend always draws a hard line....
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Old 02-07-2015, 12:53 PM   #26
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Both cardude and ksaunders reply's are spot on, as a hard core Nordy lover myself I will concur there are a bunch of alternatives available IF you don't wish to turn either East or West and go 2000 miles non stop.

As CD posted there are a number of boats out there that will give better accommodations for the same or less money.. and a couple he posted can go anywhere a Nordy can. Don't be stuck on just the Nordhavn brand thinking they are the end all.. they have their issues as do ALL boats.

An no matter what anyone else may try to convince you .. 40' is just too small to be a full time, no dirt home anymore liveaboard.

As a side note, it one is only looking to full time for a couple years you need to look at the resale value of your choice. As a example the N46 I have been assisted in the purchase of recently originally sold for $295k, it has passed through a number of owners and the last sale price was $375k

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Old 02-07-2015, 12:56 PM   #27
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The separate ultility room and access to the ER I think is key. That way one can do ER checks or otherwise be in and out of the ER with out disterbing someone trying to sleep in the master stateroom. For an overnight passage, that's key. The other huge plus is the extra cabin and day head in the "tree house" behind the pilot house. For overnights, it is again hugely beneficial to be able to hop into the little cabin to sleep, be isolated from the PH so you can actually sleep, yet be right at hand should you be needed by whoever is on watch.



Overnighters probably not all that necessary for the stated mission: "We plan on being east coast cruisers (Maine to the Keys), with an occasional trip to the Bahamas."

Good points, though, and maybe that also provides some additional insight into how to develop a list of desirable features.

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Old 02-07-2015, 01:06 PM   #28
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Overnighters probably not all that necessary for the stated mission: "We plan on being east coast cruisers (Maine to the Keys), with an occasional trip to the Bahamas."

Yes and no. I know a number of east coast cruisers who travel in bigger jumps. NYC or RI straight to Charleston, as an example. At one point I was looking at a couple of weeks to make that trip in day hops, then heard a friend who had just done it in 3 days straight. That's a really nice option to have. Also, with a deeper draft boat, outside routes will be more likely, so more chance of overnighters.

But you are right that it's a smaller part of the whole bungle given the cruising plans. I always do day hops when possible.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:19 PM   #29
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Thanks for spending my money Twistedtree. My husband is looking forward to overnight cruising; misses it from his Navy days I think. He has a lot of long trips already planned where this will be necessary! The 55 is awesome I am very sure (I won't permit us to look anything over budget) but definitely not in our budget!
After reading all the comments it is clear to me we would be too cramped on the 40.
As far as resale, we were hoping to dock the trawler in front of our someday Va Beach condo and keep it for the kids (hey they could take us out in it!), but that may not be realistic.
I was discussing the thread with my husband. He says he suspects that the advice of buying the smallest boat you would be comfortable on was not aimed at liveaboards
I have to admit the roomier boats were very appealing.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:28 PM   #30
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As far as resale, we were hoping to dock the trawler in front of our someday Va Beach condo and keep it for the kids (hey they could take us out in it!), but that may not be realistic.

It's very realistic, just start'em young. Trust me, I know.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:32 PM   #31
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An no matter what anyone else may try to convince you .. 40' is just too small to be a full time, no dirt home anymore liveaboard.

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After reading all the comments it is clear to me we would be too cramped on the 40.
I was discussing the thread with my husband. He says he suspects that the advice of buying the smallest boat you would be comfortable on was not aimed at liveaboards
I have to admit the roomier boats were very appealing.

Building on the thought, it's useful to use "length" as quick shorthand, or maybe a rough abbreviation, to consider "roominess" -- but there's 40' and then there's 40'. A 40' Nordhavn probably has 3x the space we have in our 42', simply because the design differs to satisfy different requirements. (And I agree, our 42's is too small for a full-time liveaboard, and I'd guess an N40 would still be too small, too. At least for us.)

IOW, while you're looking, take design and layout into account, too. You may find you love a 47' whatever, but you may also find a 45' something else offers significantly more useful (for you) space. Or you may find a 49' something is laid out more usefully (for you) than a 47' whatever.

And so forth.

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Old 02-07-2015, 01:41 PM   #32
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Thanks Ranger42c. That is a useful approach. I am going to keep it in mind.
N4712: the youngest of our six kids is a college junior at Virginia Tech!
All six are in Virginia so we are planning to base in Virginia Beach.
My husband is anxious to leave Maine (4 big storms in 10 days) now that my mother is willing to winter in the Keys. A couple of our sons love the trawler idea so we are hoping to keep the boat for them (and for us) once we get to old to boat.
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Old 02-07-2015, 01:43 PM   #33
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:24 PM   #34
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cardude01 you may want to be careful what you wish for: there are 10 grandchildren already and our youngest two are not even married yet. But, the more the merrier!
by the way, our cruising plans do not include the ICW; just Maine to the Keys; occasional trips to the Bahamas. We would like to go to Nova Scotia eventually. I got a nice quote on boat insurance from USAA/Markel and they said they could write an endorsement for Nova Scotia when the time comes probably not for a few years.
ksanders: I just read Passage Maker and enjoyed your letter very much!
plus all the different boats in the magazine of course
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Old 02-07-2015, 02:29 PM   #35
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ksanders: I just read Passage Maker and enjoyed your letter very much!
plus all the different boats in the magazine of course
Wow, I didn't know they printed it. I havent looked at that issue yet.

Cool!!!

EDIT

I just looked at the online edition of passagemaker and was thrilled that they published my letter.
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:27 PM   #36
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Go for the N47 - bigger is better (at least in Texas !!)


We originally bought a Carver 37, than had to change it for a 50' Connie for the obvious reason. On more thing, If the wife is not comfortable inside, forget all the cruises !
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Old 02-07-2015, 06:45 PM   #37
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As the Op must realize by now there are some mixed opinions on this form and throughout the remainder of the population. The key to picking the correct boat for any buyer is to match the boat as closely to the use patterns as possible. There are always trade offs and usually compromises. The NH boats are designed with blue water use in mind while there are many more boats designed for coastal ICW and the Bahamas. Almost all these boats are basically safe enough and then some. Most danger does not come from poor boat design or build it is usually the crews judgment or errors sometimes maintenance or defective equipment. I will throw my vote against the NH for the use you express and say for the same $ there lots more used boats that will do it in safety and style. It may make an owner feel good to think He or She owns the ultimate blue water boat, but the real truth is a NH is probably not even a second best sea boat to a well found sailboat at 2/3rds the size.
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Old 02-07-2015, 08:12 PM   #38
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I yearned for a Diesel Duck with "go anywhere capability", but financial reality and knowing my waters were protected and being a gunkholer at heart, I settled for something less. Made the correct decision.


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Old 02-07-2015, 09:37 PM   #39
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I'm with Twistedtree, go for the biggest you can manage. I've been on many models of Nordhavns and none of them would be a bad decision. With a shore base, a large on shore storage locker will make living on board a lot easier so when going south leave the parkas and when going north leave the bikini.

The 47 is a go anywhere vessel, which over time you may want to do. There are several 47/52 owners who have nice blogs you can read to get a feel for what around the world awaits you. A biggie, the Nordhavn company PAE provides you full factory support on the 47, still today. Few if any other builders can match Nordhavn in this respect.

And Nordhavn's quality is very good. Every time you get on the vessel you will feel good. A few others come to mind in this respect, very few. Good luck and get a tight invasive survey on the vessel you settle on. Even Nordhavns can suffer from neglect.
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Old 02-08-2015, 02:45 AM   #40
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Jeez there were some nice boats among those listed on P1 by Cardude. If only I lived in the US, and had just won Lotto...
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