Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 10-25-2013, 03:18 PM   #41
Veteran Member
 
Reveille's Avatar
 
City: United States
Country: United States
Vessel Name: First Forty
Vessel Model: Nordhavn 40
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 26
The commonwealth of Virginia caps the sales tax for watercraft at $2000.00
__________________
Advertisement

Reveille is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 04:19 PM   #42
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
N3 Sea Trial and Inspection

The following is an update on yesterdays activities. After meeting Jeff and his wife Pam for breakfast we drove over to the boat were we met Lee the inspector and the boat owner. Upon arriving the boat Lee went to work in the engine room for the next two hours followed by the lazerrette. This gave Jeff and I time to look over the rest of the boat with the owner. There was a lot to cover even on a smaller boat. Once Lee was ready we started the engine and drove across the bay at different RPM's and went through maneuvers. I was impressed with the boats handling (different then our N40's) and visibility. She tracked perfect and was responsive. Cooling temperatures and engine noise in the salon didn't change very much at even WOT. Nordhavn does know how to build a quiet boat. She handled different sea conditions as I expected. After we arrived the ship yard the boat was hauled out and the hull along with thru-hulls, transducers and propeller were all inspected - no findings. Bottom paint was less then one year old. We were back in the water within an hour and everyone left to return to owners slip while I departed to take care of personal business. Before I left I spent time with the inspector who explained what he found in the engine room. A few items that will be written up in his report and discussed with the owner. I suspect it will take everyone a few days to figure out how we handle the inspection report and requested to slip the contract close date two weeks so no one is rushing around and makes any mistake. When you think about it what is the rush? Having been down this road of boat ownership many time before, the one thing you do not want to do is make decisions based upon emotion. You need to keep a clear head when it comes to large purchases.

So in summary the boat performed as well as it looks. A true diamond in the rough considering its age. While one aspect of the sea trial did fall a little short everything else exceeded expectations and if the balance of the survey related items turn out OK then I think we will close the deal. So what has this adventure cost us so far? Insurance binder $150, Haul-out $270 and inspection $750. A small price to pay to insure your decision is made on solid ground. Hopefully these costs along with the time dedicated will help others thinking about buying a used boat in the future. If you are not serious you may not want to drop $1K and take up peoples time. I should add that I have already spent money traveling to Seattle three times and Oakland one time looking at other boats, made an offer on larger Nordhavn (not accepted) so I'm really into this purchase for around $4K all up over the past year. I will keep everyone posted.

I would also like to add that the current owner of the boat has been very forthcoming with know issues and very helpful though out this entire process. He is a real gentleman who took excellent care of the boat.
__________________

N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 04:35 PM   #43
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
I would also like to add that the current owner of the boat has been very forthcoming with know issues and very helpful though out this entire process. He is a real gentleman who took excellent care of the boat.
John: I hope you are considering bringing her back to SunRoad as I am looking forward to meeting you and the boat.
__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 06:45 PM   #44
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
Sunroad Marine

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaHorse II View Post
John: I hope you are considering bringing her back to SunRoad as I am looking forward to meeting you and the boat.
Sunroad is on the top of our list and they have room. Also considering Kona Kia which we stayed once before and the Marriott Hotel Marina. Will let you know. thanks
N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 07:46 PM   #45
Guru
 
Tidahapah's Avatar
 
City: Mooloolaba
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Tidahapah
Vessel Model: Bert Ellis Timber motor cruiser
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,779
Nice stuff John.
Thanks for keeping us informed and I hope you are in your next N soon

Cheers
Benn
__________________
"When I die I hope my wife doesn't sell my toys for what I told her I paid for them"
Money: It's made round to go round , not flat to stack.
"Get out and do it"
Tidahapah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 09:09 PM   #46
TF Site Team
 
Pau Hana's Avatar


 
City: Seattle, WA
Country: Good Ol' US of A!
Vessel Name: Pau Hana
Vessel Model: 1989 PT52 Overseas Yachtfisher
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,647
Nice- I have some fond memories of the Kona Kai.....
__________________
Peter- Marine Insurance Guru & tuna fishing addict!

1989 52' PT Overseas yachtfisher
Pau Hana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 09:23 PM   #47
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
Post Inspection / Sea Trial Update

A quick update to advise we received the inspection report along with appraised value of the boat. A few surprises with boat (one can consider this a good thing and why you pay for a high end inspector who knows the line of boats you are buying). Despite this boat appearing to be a 8 or 9 out of 10 he found things that Jeff and I missed. This is where things can get interesting for the buyer. Do you share the report which you just invested a $1K with the owner to help him understand what needs to be done with boat or keep it to yourself? I'm a honest person and not trying to hide anything so I authorized my broker to release a few pages of the report to the owner for his review. If this helps us meet in the middle then we have a deal, if not then we walk. At least I'll know I did the right thing and seller will know what he needs to do to keep his boat in top shape. I appreciate his time and effort on this transaction so I feel this is the right thing to do.
Probably the hardest thing to do is keep the emotion out of this phase of the purchase. After a year of searching and finally finding the right boat it is hard to walk away but all decisions need to be sound. Time will tell.....
N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 10:21 PM   #48
Guru
 
Moonstruck's Avatar
 
City: Hailing Port: Charleston, SC
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Moonstruck
Vessel Model: Sabre 42 Hardtop Express
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,848
Quote:
Originally Posted by bligh View Post
John,
What is the purpose of setting up an LLC in regards to a boat purchase?
You can domicile the LLC in a low tax state such as Delaware. The boat is owned by the LLC. That will cut taxes and limit liability against your other assets.
__________________
Don on Moonstruck
Sabre 42 Hardtop Express & Blackfin 25 CC
When cruising life is simpler, but on a grander scale (author unknown)
http://moonstruckblog.wordpress.com/
Moonstruck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 10:38 PM   #49
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
Moonstruck, I prefer not to comment on an LLC in Delaware since I'm not an attorney and despite our LLC's being established in Delaware I only understand the benefits living in California. Best to discuss with a tax attorney in your state. Good question that others should ask. Best of luck.
N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-28-2013, 11:14 PM   #50
THD
Guru
 
City: Seattle
Country: US
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,142
Don-there are no substantive advantages to incorporating in Delaware, especially in this case where the boat will not be a business, but for personal use. The advantages that accrue to Delaware for large corporations have much more to do with corporate governance law in Delaware than with taxation. Much weaker shareholder protections in Delaware. For federal taxes, it makes no difference whatsoever, especially for an LLC. The LLC in this case is ignored for federal tax purposes. Delaware has no state corporate income tax, but an LLC is not subject to a separate income tax in any event. As for liability, Delaware offers no more protection from personal liability than most other states. In any event, the liability law that will be applied will be the law of the jurisdiction in which the event giving rise to the liability occurred.
THD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-31-2013, 10:34 PM   #51
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
N3 Update - Not a done deal yet

Well the learning experience of buying a used trawler versus building a new boat continues. With the new boat you spec out the boat the way you want it over a period of months or years, then when your ready negotiate a price and wait for the boat to arrive. The only mention of price is limited to progress payments unless you decide to make changes (never a good idea).

Not the same with the used boat. Even after you and the seller agree on price there is the risk of having to renegotiate after the sea-trial / inspection and is where we find ourselves today. A week has passed and while I'm optimistic things will work out, the deal is not done. If I could provide any recommendation about this process it would be to keep the emotions out of the decision and not let anyone involved put pressure on you. Will keep you posted!
N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2013, 12:25 AM   #52
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 7,564
Emotions and $ don`t mix well. As you want to own it, there is already some "love" for the boat. You should sense when the seller has gone as far as he will, provided you don`t burn any bridges you can always backtrack your position if you have to. Sounds like you have it well under control, but if it all gets too hard you can say "yes", at any point.
I spotted a Nordhaven anchored at an inner harbour beaches recently. They are a such distinctive design. Hope it goes well.
__________________
BruceK
Island Gypsy 36 Europa "Doriana"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 05:41 PM   #53
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
N3 - Update "Not the planned ending"

For those that have been following our short adventure I'm saddened to report that our search for N3 will need to continue on. We decided not to complete the purchase of the boat we have been posting about. Out of respect for all parties involved I will limit our reasoning to price versus value as the significant issue.
The true lesson learned that came out of this remains the significance of the Sea Trial and Inspection (out of the water). While many boats can show pride of ownership, it is what you don't normally see that can sink the deal and / or the boat. Hiring an inspector who knows the make / model of the boat your interested in can make a big difference. Our inspector found many more items then Jeff and I were able to identify. While the list was not overwhelming it was longer then we were able to contend with at this time. These items combined with the age of the boat had me concerned with the "what next will require attention" fear factor. I'm use to starting out with a new boat where I know the condition and start preventative maintenance of everything aboard on day one. I figured it would take a year for me to baseline this boat. I was also concerned with the electronics having to be replaced soon at significant cost.
While we wil not rule out a used boat I think it will need be within a couple years old with little wear. I hope our experience helps others considering a used boat purchase in the near future.

John

John T.
N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 07:47 PM   #54
Senior Member
 
magicbus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 460
I'm surprised that a vessel of Nordhavn's caliber would have such issues only visible after a haul out. You keep mentioning the 'age' so I understand the electronics concerns but since the only real identifying information is that it is an N43 among a number available, I would hope you would share the issues and not feel that you are singling out one owner.

Dave
__________________
Barnegat Light NJ or Nantucket MA
magicbus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 08:10 PM   #55
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,178
C'est la vie. I congratulate you on your objectivity. Better not to buy with the heart than with the head in this case. Given that it's your third Nordhavn and first used machine, I think you had one up on most purchasers.
__________________
Larry

"I'd rather be happy than dignified".
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 08:39 PM   #56
Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 658
N3 Search

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicbus View Post
I'm surprised that a vessel of Nordhavn's caliber would have such issues only visible after a haul out. You keep mentioning the 'age' so I understand the electronics concerns but since the only real identifying information is that it is an N43 among a number available, I would hope you would share the issues and not feel that you are singling out one owner.

Dave

Dave, the boat is not an N43. My designation of N3 represents it would be our third Nordhavn. I'm not being specific on the model or year but as you can imagine with any boat over say 8 years will have a few issues. While the average buyer may not have strayed from this deal it just didn't add up for us today. Also, the issues we came across were not related to the haul out of the boat. They were noted in the engine room. Thanks
N4061 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-02-2013, 09:30 PM   #57
Senior Member
 
City: Nokomis
Country: USA
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by N4061 View Post
. I'm not being specific on the model or year but as you can imagine with any boat over say 8 years will have a few issues. While the average buyer may not have strayed from this deal it just didn't add up for us today. Also, the issues we came across were not related to the haul out of the boat. They were noted in the engine room. Thanks
Nevertheless, thanks for sharing the process.
harbor950 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2013, 04:49 AM   #58
TF Site Team
 
Peter B's Avatar
 
City: Brisbane
Country: Australia
Vessel Name: Lotus
Vessel Model: Clipper (CHB) 34 Sedan/Europa style
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 6,669
Send a message via Skype™ to Peter B
C'mon John, at least tell us what size/length it was, just so we know where you are headed after two N40s. The way you've left it for now is a bit like saying you we're sussing out a CHB. They range from 30 to 48 odd feet. Nordys from 36 (I think), to 82' (again approx). Be fair...we wanna know how big..!
Mainly so we can get an idea what sort of step up you feel is appropriate to your present needs. Who knows, we might be able to alert you to prospects if we have an idea what's in your mind.
__________________
Pete
Peter B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2013, 09:07 AM   #59
TF Site Team
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Country: Texas
Vessel Model: Carver 356
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,630
The boat I have now almost turned out that way. I walked away thinking that I had just spent $1500 on a boat that I was not going to buy. But I did I officially counter and my broker heard me mumble a figure and he took that figure to the seller without me knowing. The seller accepted and the broker came back to me with my fairly ridiculous lowball offer accepted. So I bought it and am getting her up to speed.

I guess my point here is, did you counter offer with all of the modifications in mind??? Or is it more of a time/hassle issue. I understand of it is time but you could try to lowball the guy. The upside is that you end up with the boat of your choice with a bunch of new stuff on it that you are aware of its quality....
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-03-2013, 10:19 AM   #60
Guru
 
Codger2's Avatar
 
City: San Diego
Country: US
Vessel Name: "Sandpiper"
Vessel Model: 2006 42' Ocean Alexander Sedan
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,420
I'm guessing that the "warts" were much more serious than expected & John, who's owned two Nordys previously, walked. No explanation needed.
__________________

__________________
Codger2

My passion for improving my boat(s) exceeds my desire to constantly cruise them.
Codger2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:37 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012