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Old 09-02-2014, 06:18 PM   #1
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Nordy knocked down to 69*

Nordhavn 52, Dirona, is mostly having a very enjoyable time on their travels. James and Jennifer came from the PNW and have a very well written and photo-documented blog at MV Dirona Recent Locations Travel Log Map

So, a few days ago with a 25-30 kn southerly blowing they were at the east end of the Wide Bay Bar, probably in 'will we or won't we' mode, but they were just a bit to close to the start of it. This bar has a high sphincter factor even in 'reasonable' conditions. You have to use current GPS waypoints obtained from the local VMR to find the channel and will have breakers on one side of you at least along 'the mad mile'. Breakers on the beam messes with your head...... I prefer 'good' conditions there, but for Dirona they are best described as 'adverse'.

Dirona was knocked down to 69.1*. Their blog entry on 8/23/2014 "Roll" describes the event, and entries before and after give further perspective. They seem calm about it now, but only wrote it up a week or so afterwards, so perhaps they were understandably not so calm at the time.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:21 PM   #2
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wow. on a stabilized boat no less. before that they were rolling 30 degrees both directions for quite a while. must have been a little uncomfortable.
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Old 09-02-2014, 07:57 PM   #3
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Interesting information in light of comments from some that the vessel - the Baden - that capsized on launch in Anacortes and had vanishing stability at less than 69 degrees would be no problem since no one ever heels that much. I doubt the owners of the Dirona would agree.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:12 PM   #4
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Sounds like they surfed and broached. Wouldn't that have been a good time to tow something from the stern? Something that would have kept the stern from swinging out of control and keeping the vessel from gaining too much speed on the face of the waves?

There are products out there, but I've read about commercial fishermen that tow garbage cans or old tires to keep from surfing in a situation like that.
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Old 09-02-2014, 08:36 PM   #5
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Sounds like they surfed and broached. Wouldn't that have been a good time to tow something from the stern? Something that would have kept the stern from swinging out of control and keeping the vessel from gaining too much speed on the face of the waves?

There are products out there, but I've read about commercial fishermen that tow garbage cans or old tires to keep from surfing in a situation like that.
Surfing? No, I don't think so in this case. For this bar you are beam on to the waves for over a mile. They break in the shallow water that is on both sides of the channel. You are not in the waves, just the surf after they have broken. In good conditions on this bar the waves don't break, and then towing a drogue to stop you stern from swinging as the waves pass under you is a good idea.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:18 PM   #6
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Rolling over 69* would have scared the crap out of me. Those two have experienced a lot during their travels. This incident, I'm sure, will be one they remember a long time.
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:39 PM   #7
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Old 09-03-2014, 12:59 PM   #8
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I've done more than 60 degrees for 3 days once...it was on a 399 icebreaker...and they just had to clean the wall of footprints as much as the floors...

Running an inlet I think they were wise turning around as quick as they did...

Drogues can be a 2 edged sword...keeping you straight in a breaking sea is great...right up to the point where you may have to turn quick. If you are truly turning 90 degrees to the wave pattern...then like here in Jersey in some inlets...a drogue can be worse than not having one for the few moments it may really help.
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Old 09-03-2014, 02:16 PM   #9
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Thats a good reason to through bolt everything. You never know what you'll wind up hanging on!
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:49 PM   #10
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Interesting information in light of comments from some that the vessel - the Baden - that capsized on launch in Anacortes and had vanishing stability at less than 69 degrees would be no problem since no one ever heels that much.
Yes it would be interesting.

IF anybody had said that in that thread.
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Old 09-03-2014, 04:59 PM   #11
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Yes it would be interesting.

IF anybody had said that in that thread.
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So in the end it looks like if you careful, properly prepared, pick your weather and perhaps have a little luck as well, a vessel with "only" 65 degrees of stability could cross an ocean or two on its own bottom.
Unless you are this vessel, manned by careful people, properly prepared, picking their weather and being lucky enough to get where they are. If you were this vessel, you might be dead, since "only" 65 degrees of stability might have killed you.
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Old 09-03-2014, 06:22 PM   #12
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Yes. But That is much different than saying: "69 degrees would be no problem since no one ever heels that much."

I, nor any one else that I recall, said that "no one ever heels that much."

All I said was if you were careful in your planning and perhaps had a bit of luck you could cross an ocean with a vessel that only had 65 deg. of stability to one side.

By the way, I agree more (to a point) is obviously better when it comes to stability for true ocean crossing vessels.
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Old 09-03-2014, 08:51 PM   #13
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I spoke with James and Jennifer whilst I was anchored up beside them down at Inskip Point (Pelican Point). This was after they had come around the top of Fraser is. I came down the inside just behind them.
I was waiting for the weather to abate a little to go out across the bar, they were going to head back up the inside to travel further north.
James did mention to me that the weather they experienced coming up was the worst they had had in all their voyaging.
Whilst he was going north with the SE trades I had been slogging into it coming south.
I have crossed this bar some 70/80 odd time over the last 20 years and my crossing 2 days later ( the day after they headed back north) rates in my top 2 worst ever.

As Brian stated the first leg coming from the inside is with beam seas and is not know as the "mad Mile" or the "washing Machine " for nothing.
The last leg is head on into the sea but over fairly shallow water. I crossed at optimum tide ( 4 hrs into the flood) and had 2.5 to 3 mt seas coming over a max depth in places of 5 mts, so you can see how it could get pretty dangerous , especially if you don't use the tides right.

I can see from James track he was not familiar with the area especially when looking at the Moon Point area.

Any how it looks like they are headed up into the Great Barrier Reef area and should have a great time.
He said they will go north for a while and then track back south and down to Tasmania.
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Old 09-03-2014, 10:50 PM   #14
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Can you guys post a chart of this spot?
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Old 09-03-2014, 11:50 PM   #15
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Probably the easiest thing to do is go to Dirona's blog (link in post #1), and look for entry "Roll". Click on the date and heading above that entry (8/23/2014: 69.1 degrees) and Google map should show where they were at the time. You can then scroll around etc on the map. They were a reasonable way out from the mad mile, which you can identify from the shallow sandy area east of Inskip Point.

I'll go down to the boat a bit later today, and if I can figure out how to get a screen shot from my chartplotter I'll post it if it shows the bar any better.

Here is a pic dated 2003 that I just found, and the article that goes with it is at SOS Tin Can Bay
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Old 09-04-2014, 01:04 AM   #16
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OK, here's a photo of the chartplotter. Depths are in meters. Hook Point is at the south end of Fraser Island if you want to find it in Google maps.
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Old 09-04-2014, 03:39 AM   #17
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Try this it is from post 182 in Tidahapah refit

http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/a...7&d=1384916948
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Old 09-04-2014, 08:51 AM   #18
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OK, here's a photo of the chartplotter. Depths are in meters. Hook Point is at the south end of Fraser Island if you want to find it in Google maps.

Thanks
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Old 09-04-2014, 09:39 AM   #19
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Wow, great stuff Brian and Tidhapah. One thing is for sure, James H is intrepid. Keep him safe, he needs to keep writing boat books and Amazon code.
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Old 09-06-2014, 08:00 PM   #20
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Just checking the Dirona blog and James has posted a photo of a rainbow down at Inskip Point and the mighty Tidahapah is in it under the rainbow.
I see they are now up at Lady Musgrave Is a nice spot but it can get crowded during the cruising season coupled with a fair few bad anchorers.
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