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Old 03-17-2014, 10:34 PM   #1
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Nordhavn adopts semi-displacement design

Here's something different.

Nordhavn's latest introduction, a 59-footer, is a semi-displacement boat. Nordhavn claims they are trying to reach out to a new market, in which fewer people will be ocean voyagers and more will be coastal cruisers.

Welcome to Nordhavn.com - Power Thats Oceans Apart
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Old 03-17-2014, 10:55 PM   #2
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Interesting, and twins, too.

To my mind that design is not ready for prime time. I love the outside area, but it comes at too steep a price. I think the saloon/galley area should be extended and reworked. It just doesn't look like a comfortable living space for a coastal cruiser. I think the 47 for its size has a much better layout. Even the 44 Defever that Ian bought has a better use of space.

That being said, the Nordhavn brand will probably sell. I.m sure they don't give a rip about my opinion. I think they have some absolutely great boats, but to me this one is not ready yet.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:13 PM   #3
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Nordhavn has a great market niche , and I think they might be facing serious competition in the semi displacement arena.

There are already lots of manufacturers that have semi displacement offerings in every price point imaginable.

What value will they bring to the market that the other entrenched manufacturers are not fulfilling?
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:24 PM   #4
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Ken,
But Nordhavn has the name. And ther'e not offering an entry level boat.

I don't like it though.

I think they have run out of people that want slow boats and still want to get bigger. If ther'e going to dominate the trawler market the've no choice but to build SD boats. Most all trawlers are SD for good reasons.

I thought the Nordhavn 35 was SD.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:10 AM   #5
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Are they grasping at straws or responding smartly to market? Time will tell. Maybe a bit of both.

As a semi displacement type couple though, we find it lacking at first glance. By the time it gets to market perhaps it will be better. The salon area is lacking although the galley is huge, obviously where that space went. Why aft galley, I don't know. Only an 800 lb davit? In that size boat? Should be at least 1000 lbs and while easily changed just makes you wonder why. Especially when they say a 14' tender. A 13' Novurania with a 50 hp would come too close to that capacity for comfort. While the hp is high for Nordhavn, it's low versus competitors who typically have twins in the 1000 hp range available. Same with speed as it's 20 knots WOT and others are 20 knots cruising. While appealing to Nordhavn loyalists, it's design just seems so much Nordhavn with a quickly modified hull and weight rather than something designed ground up to be different.

Nordhavn has been very distinctive and held a unique place. They have their strengths and haven't had to compete directly with others. For small expedition type fiberglass boats they've been the market. One plays to their strengths. But I don't see this boat attracting the non Nordhavn customers and I'd be surprised to see Nordhavn customers want it. It doesn't represent what they're about.

Comparing to say a 59' GB or a 60' Hatteras it's lighter, narrower and has a shorter waterline length. It also has a shallower draft.

Yes, it will get attention because it's Nordhavn. But getting attention and filling a real need are two different things. Their 120' got attention, but I haven't seen it attracting a new group of buyers to them. While I'll reserve final judgement until there is actually a boat to see, I am not initially impressed.
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Old 03-18-2014, 01:44 AM   #6
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I think the 47 for its size has a much better layout. Even the 44 Defever that Ian bought has a better use of space.
Thanks, Don! I could live with being second fiddle to a Nordy 47 . One minor correction: she isn't mine yet. Although from the pictures it seems like a no-brainer, I've still got to see what the survey says next month. Hopefully, she's as sound as she appears.
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Old 03-18-2014, 04:11 AM   #7
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You know they may be responding to customer base

My dock neighbor a few years ago had a Nordhavn 40 stabilized with fins and paravanes. At that time I had a 4788 Bayliner, his boat never left the dock. On one rare occasion when it did, we both left for Angel Island on SF bay from Alameda. We ran out the estuary at about 6knts and started across the bay into the slot. It got a little snotty and I started taking on a lot of spray, so I kicked that 47 in the butt moving the spray aft and left him to his misery rolling in that 4'chop. When he finally caught up to me in the cove, his first question was how fast were you going when you dropped me. Oh probably 18knts. One of the problems with slow trawlers is you just can't get anywhere in a day. The problem for Nordhavn is there are a ton of builders that know how to build good affordable planing coastal cruisers. Bayliner for one has been building good performing boats that get the job done with less power for a long time, and they have been doing it for a fraction of the cost of a Nordhavn.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:22 AM   #8
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Uh oh, comparing a Nordie to a Bayliner. You're in for it now.

Signed,

A happy fellow owner of a "Chevy or Ford of boats" (not that I don't drool over Nords or KK's)
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:58 AM   #9
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The Coastal Pilot design has been out there for two years now. Nice to see that thinking outside the box is still alive and well at Nordhavn. It seems a big improvement over another quality built vessel, the Fleming 55, especially with an ER that one can move around in.

Quality and vessel support cannot be matched by any other volume builder today.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:26 AM   #10
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Bayliner for one has been building good performing boats that get the job done with less power for a long time, and they have been doing it for a fraction of the cost of a Nordhavn.
Along with Sea Ray, Carver, Meridian and Mainship.

A Ford or Chevy will get the job done as well as a BMW but those with the means have a choice. The rest of us don't.

However it is interesting to hear the comments of some Nordhavn, Flemming, etc proponents exalting the robust built quality of these boats when so few in the under 45' range have ever been more than 100 miles off shore.

That said anybody what to trade their Norddy for my Carver.
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Old 03-18-2014, 06:36 AM   #11
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I have to agree that Nordhavn will have to rethink this design to compete in the semi-displacement market.

Matching this vessel up to the New Fleming 58 that just came onto the market, I would have to op for the Fleming simply based on the Specs and the overall design of the Fleming.

I also believe Nordhavn is losing ground in the market place due to the economy which is why they are jumping into the S D market were on the other hand, Fleming has been holding it’s own in the market with their line of smaller vessels, such as the Corvette 340 and the F-55 and now the F-58.

If you think about, the economy has been flat for the last 5 years and so far this year shows no sign of improvement. All major Companies come up with a business plan for the next 5 to 6 years in hopes of staying ahead in their field. Nordhavn has seen the hand writing on the wall (The bad economy) and in this case, they understand the coastal cruising is a larger market over the LRC market.

Yes Nordhavn has the name so they will have a great chance to get a foot hold in the SD market place but if the design of the vessel is lacking it will be much harder for them. Also I believe Nordhavn is starting behind the 8 ball as well by waiting too long to jump into the SD market.

Fleming started their F-58 project 5 years ago and they have years of building SD under their belt were Nordhavn does not. So it can be a crap shoot for them but I do hope they can pull it off.

Happy cruising.

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Old 03-18-2014, 08:41 AM   #12
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I think just like KK, Nordy will get their share of people who decide crossing an ocean is out, yet have the money to buy a very expensive boat that will essentially be doing the same work as boats a mere fraction of the cost.

Just like the KK express, (don't know just how successful they have been)...Nordy can copy that business model....from what I can tell, usually owners of those type boats become very brand loyal.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:07 AM   #13
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I think just like KK, Nordy will get their share of people who decide crossing an ocean is out, yet have the money to buy a very expensive boat that will essentially be doing the same work as boats a mere fraction of the cost.

Just like the KK express, (don't know just how successful they have been)...Nordy can copy that business model....from what I can tell, usually owners of those type boats become very brand loyal.
Scott, I think the Krogen Express is a Krogen design, but a different company. It is a very nice boat with a good turn of speed that is produced by relatively small engines. They had been operating out of Windmill Harbor on Hilton Head Island. From what I have seen it is well laid out with good space proportions. The only objection I have to the layout is accessing the master stateroom from steps down from the pilothouse. However, I could live with that. I like the boat.

Here is a link. Notice the color of the boat on the home page. Striking! (grin)

http://www.krogenexpress.com/index.php
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:08 AM   #14
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Since Fleming was just brought into the discussion a quick Nordhavn 59 vs. Fleming 58 overview. First as to sheer dimensions and measurements where normally Nordhavn overwhelms in displacement even if not in other areas. Well, the Fleming is longer, has a greater water line, wider beam, and significantly greater weight. It also carries more fuel. Standard hp goes to Nordhavn but Fleming offers options to equal them. Performance is unknown. Nordhavn has a shallower draft.

Bridges look similar but Nordhavn accommodates slightly larger tender while having a smaller davit. On the main level Nordhavn has more galley and dining and has sacrificed salon space. Fleming's guest accommodations are greater.

I'm use to Nordhavn doing what they do better. In this case it appears they've entered a new area and not only don't do it better, but perhaps not as good.
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:57 AM   #15
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Matching this vessel up to the New Fleming 58 that just came onto the market, I would have to op for the Fleming simply based on the Specs and the overall design of the Fleming.
H. Foster
Nordhavn's CP indeed does not match up to the F58, nor does its likely build price. It would seem the N59 is aiming at the F55 type buyers who don't want to spend the F58 bucks.

That said, Nordhavn has been unique in the business by posting "maybe designs" to test potential buyer feedback and get a few Forums like ours yacking. These "maybe designs" have not always come to fruition, but at least do indicate Nordhavn is focusing on the future market place. Witness the MS 56 which does not necessarily sail very well but does attract those who want to cross oceans in decent breezes, which was the roots of Nordhavn to begin with.

PAEs current build pipeline is pretty decent, as is Dashew's FPB backlog. IMHO, the FPB program is the most amazing story out there for today's serious blue water fraternity. The FPB 78 is no dock queen but sure has the crossing big water chops.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:04 PM   #16
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A Nordy with decent size windows; what will they think of next?
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:58 PM   #17
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Nordhavn's CP indeed does not match up to the F58, nor does its likely build price. It would seem the N59 is aiming at the F55 type buyers who don't want to spend the F58 bucks.
I agree with you on that, however the reason why Fleming came out with the F-58 was due to the fact many people wanted a vessel that was between the F-55 and the F-65. (The F-55 was to small and the F-65 was to big.)

Before long I believe Fleming will stop making the F-55 (though I could be wrong on that one) But in looking at Fleming's history on their new builds, I believe they will.

In looking at the rough cost between Fleming's 3 vessel's F-55 around 1.5 Mil. F-58 around 2.5 Mil and the F-65 around 3.5 Mil. what does one get for a extra mil?

I guess the question here is what will the New Nordhavn 59 CP cost? If it is in the 1.5 to 2 Mil. range, yes I can see them getting part of the market with what they have now, but if the price is higher, I am not so sure. Time will tell that.

I have no doubt that Nordhavn will market their New Vessel in a great way and spend a boat load of cash in doing it.

Another question will be, Will the boating people go for it? Again time will tell that as well.

Nordhavn does make great vessels for the task they are asked to do and I am sure Nordhavn will rethink their design and come up with something that is a little better in the SD market down the road. Well I hope they do anyways.

In any case. I will be waiting to see what happens with it.

Happy cruising.

H. Foster.
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Old 03-18-2014, 03:36 PM   #18
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Don's right about the Krogen Express....not the same company, but it is a Krogen design. If I had money to waste, it's true that I would have a SD hull like like KK Express of Flemming 55 (love the looks and lines of both), but I'm still waiting for Bayliner to build my 4788T and my feelings are hurt since after I published this rendition I've heard nothing from them at all.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:12 PM   #19
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Don's right about the Krogen Express....not the same company, but it is a Krogen design. If I had money to waste, it's true that I would have a SD hull like like KK Express of Flemming 55 (love the looks and lines of both), but I'm still waiting for Bayliner to build my 4788T and my feelings are hurt since after I published this rendition I've heard nothing from them at all.
Larry, I'm sure it's that extended bow pulpit that's turning them off.
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Old 03-18-2014, 05:48 PM   #20
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Larry, maybe Bayliner thought the lazarette hatch you designed was too big.
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