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Old 03-02-2014, 03:14 PM   #1
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N47 - Out of Production

PAE recently added the N47 to their list of "out of production" boats as buyer see the value in stepping up to the N52. Another sign of the times that the little guys (myself included) are being boxed out of the Full Displacement Hull Trawler game as the costs of building smaller boats don't make sense for the big three players. I'm looking forward to a high quality, smaller company to come in and pick up the 40'-49' market.

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Old 03-02-2014, 04:17 PM   #2
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PAE recently added the N47 to their list of "out of production" boats as buyer see the value in stepping up to the N52. Another sign of the times that the little guys (myself included) are being boxed out of the Full Displacement Hull Trawler game as the costs of building smaller boats don't make sense for the big three players. I'm looking forward to a high quality, smaller company to come in and pick up the 40'-49' market. John T. N3522 La Tempestad
Wow, glad we bought when we did.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:09 PM   #3
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PAE recently added the N47 to their list of "out of production" boats as buyer see the value in stepping up to the N52. Another sign of the times that the little guys (myself included) are being boxed out of the Full Displacement Hull Trawler game as the costs of building smaller boats don't make sense for the big three players. I'm looking forward to a high quality, smaller company to come in and pick up the 40'-49' market.

John T.
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Maybe that market essentially no longer exists as it clearly doesn't seem to exist in the sub 40' range. Nobody seems to have come in since Willard left and the big 3 seem to be following. Clearly there are very few willing to pay 7 figures for a <50' FD Trawler.

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Old 03-02-2014, 05:16 PM   #4
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Point well taken, Ted. Add to that the cloudy skies for the Krogen 39. It is still offered by the company, but for a couple of hundred thou more, you could get into a 44. Of course, these companies are in business to stay in business, and as the market goes so do they need to go. I don't feel very good about the sub 40 industry, save for a few semi-custom and custom mfgrs.. Maybe there's just too many used boats.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:28 PM   #5
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Slow trawler sub 40 market? I thought Ranger Tugs was on fire and now they have a 31' model...bet they will have a 35-37 soon.
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Old 03-02-2014, 05:39 PM   #6
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We went down to Trawlerfest last weekend and the Rangers are apparently selling well. There were at least four 43-47 Nordies being sold. We went on a 62 for the first time... I know someone here is building one and I truly hope the have changed the layout and dropped or moved the 'crew's quarters' to better utilize all of that space under the foredeck.

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Old 03-02-2014, 06:07 PM   #7
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Smart move by PAE. They found on both the 55 and 47 they could easily stretch the waterline by 5 feet for little difference in price. So about 5 years ago the 60 and 52 were born. The cabins are identical but the boat deck and lazarette are much better for storage and dive tanks. Not to mention the improvement in performance that 5 more WL feet provides.
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:50 PM   #8
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Under 50' FD Trawler Market

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Maybe that market essentially no longer exists as it clearly doesn't seem to exist in the sub 40' range. Nobody seems to have come in since Willard left and the big 3 seem to be following. Clearly there are very few willing to pay 7 figures for a <50' FD Trawler.

Ted
I ask myself the same question but not at 7 figures. Granted even a decked out N40 will run around $750K and N43 pushes the 7 digit number, what if someone came up with a comparable boat design (motor-sailor as an example) in the 45' range for under $750K? Single engine diesel with unlimited range, fully enclosed helm like the larger N56MS, etc....... Would there be a new bread of buyers that would jump at this type of vessel to make passagemaking possible for the little guy or do they all buy used Nordhavn's and KK's? Just a question!

John T.
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Old 03-02-2014, 06:54 PM   #9
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Smart move by PAE. They found on both the 55 and 47 they could easily stretch the waterline by 5 feet for little difference in price. So about 5 years ago the 60 and 52 were born. The cabins are identical but the boat deck and lazarette are much better for storage and dive tanks. Not to mention the improvement in performance that 5 more WL feet provides.
Totally true for the 55/60, but i understand the cabin was stretched a bit on the 52 compared to the 47.

I may be the guy referred to who's building, but I'm building a 60, not a 62'. They are very different boats. But even though the 60 is called a 60, its the same hull as the 63, and measures just under 65'. But what's in a name anyway?

I'm actually sitting in Hong Kong waiting for a flight over to Xiamen to see my boat. It's very close to being done!!!!!!
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:15 PM   #10
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I'm actually sitting in Hong Kong waiting for a flight over to Xiamen to see my boat. It's very close to being done!!!!!!
Cool, build update on the blog is not far away then.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:22 PM   #11
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Yes, I've been waiting for this trip before doing an update. Stay tuned.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:30 PM   #12
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Yes, I've been waiting for this trip before doing an update. Stay tuned.
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Old 03-02-2014, 07:56 PM   #13
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I ask myself the same question but not at 7 figures. Granted even a decked out N40 will run around $750K and N43 pushes the 7 digit number, what if someone came up with a comparable boat design (motor-sailor as an example) in the 45' range for under $750K? Single engine diesel with unlimited range, fully enclosed helm like the larger N56MS, etc....... Would there be a new bread of buyers that would jump at this type of vessel to make passagemaking possible for the little guy or do they all buy used Nordhavn's and KK's? Just a question!

John T.
I know it's just me, having a hard time visualizing "the little guy" and $750K.

Ted
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Old 03-02-2014, 08:18 PM   #14
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Smart move by PAE. They found on both the 55 and 47 they could easily stretch the waterline by 5 feet for little difference in price. So about 5 years ago the 60 and 52 were born. The cabins are identical but the boat deck and lazarette are much better for storage and dive tanks. Not to mention the improvement in performance that 5 more WL feet provides.
The theory dosn't hold water the way I see it Tom. Add 5' for little money? If that's so drop 5' for little difference. Drop another and another and soon you've got a 20' boat for $225000. I hear that re the NT 26, GB 32 ect ect. But if you just stretch a 32 to 36 it's wider, taller and deeper. It's weight goes up very disproportionate to it's length so the cost to make goes up MUCH more than the percentage of it's length. People w a 32 usually don't have a gen set where people w a 36 do. More weight .. more cost. But if you take a 32' boat or a 26' boat and compare it to others it should stack up in the marketplace.

Perhaps the problem stems from trying to make a smaller boat in a facility geared up for making bigger boats. Considering that perhaps a small boat manufacturer can make a small boat cheaper than a big boat manufacturer. But buying things in bulk (like resin) could make that go the other way. But building a bigger product as time goes on is a widespread trend. Just bought a new VW Jetta and it's WAY bigger than my old Jetta in the 80s.

So it stands to reason to expect 32' boats from the manufacturers of 26' boats. Not from the manufacturer of 45' boats. Whatever it is that causes this "problem" it didn't seem to affect Chris Craft. They made boats for quite some time from 8' to 62'. From oars to three 160hp engines.
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:03 PM   #15
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Smart move by PAE. They found on both the 55 and 47 they could easily stretch the waterline by 5 feet for little difference in price. So about 5 years ago the 60 and 52 were born. The cabins are identical but the boat deck and lazarette are much better for storage and dive tanks. Not to mention the improvement in performance that 5 more WL feet provides.
I certainly see the ability to stretch a boat for little more money....you just have to see the big picture....
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Old 03-02-2014, 09:31 PM   #16
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what if someone came up with a comparable boat design (motor-sailor as an example) in the 45' range for under $750K? Single engine diesel with unlimited range, fully enclosed helm like the larger N56MS, etc....... Would there be a new bread of buyers that would jump at this type of vessel to make passagemaking possible for the little guy or do they all buy used Nordhavn's and KK's? Just a question! John T.
I believe what you are describing is the Diesel Ducks being built by Seahorse Marine, and from what I hear they are cranking them out!!
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Old 03-02-2014, 11:30 PM   #17
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Wow, glad we bought when we did.
Seems like an unfortunate choice. The 47 looks a splendid boat.
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Old 03-03-2014, 12:46 AM   #18
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I ask myself the same question but not at 7 figures. Granted even a decked out N40 will run around $750K and N43 pushes the 7 digit number, what if someone came up with a comparable boat design (motor-sailor as an example) in the 45' range for under $750K? Single engine diesel with unlimited range, fully enclosed helm like the larger N56MS, etc....... Would there be a new bread of buyers that would jump at this type of vessel to make passagemaking possible for the little guy or do they all buy used Nordhavn's and KK's? Just a question!

John T.
Personally I do not think it would sell. Not that it would not be a good deal, or a great boat, I just think the market demographic is not there.

People that actually want to passagemaker cruise are fairly limited in numbers.

People that want to passagemaker cruise, and have the time to do so are even less in number.

People that want to passagemaker cruise, have the money, and have the time are even less in number yet.

People that want to passagemaker style cruise, have the time, and have the money, but do not have the money to fork out say double or tripple that $750K price for a much larger more comfortable boat are apparently darn few and far between.

The ones that are there seem to be enough to support the number of used boats on the market, but not enough to support new boats being added to the pool.

I think that the "average" < $750K boat buyer is someone who is a professional or small business owner who has little time on his hands, because hes busy making a good living. Thats why I think that larger engine faster boats seem to be more popular in numbers, at the same price points.
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Old 03-03-2014, 03:01 AM   #19
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I hate to see an old standby like the 47 discontinued. If I think of Nordhavn, that's the first boat I think of.

As to Trawlerfest. The brokers including one I trust, not just those talking for public consumption, said it was a good show for them. Heavy interest and serious buyers.

Trawlers ranged from 21' Ranger Tug to a 73' Dauntless. The majority were 40' - 60' with a few smaller and a couple larger. There was a mixture between new and used. A couple of observations.

The Dauntless as the largest was also probably the biggest eye catcher. There was a huge display of Cutwater boats and Ranger tugs. Swift Trawler was there as was a Fleming. Krogen and Nordhavn had new and also were represented by used. Seaton was there with Selene but also a Powercat. Jeanneau and Ocean Alexander were represented. There was a 64' Hampton and a 53' Cranchi. Outer Reef had excellent presence with a 65 and a 70. I did not previously know Cranchi built trawlers. Also a PDQ Catamaran and one boat that is really unique and trying to get some market traction, an Elling. I found it interesting that there were three Mainship's which are now under the Marlow umbrella but no Marlow boats. Also, sadly the only Grand Banks there was a 1996 model. This would seem to reflect their disarray.

There were certainly other brands I would have liked to have seen. Bering is one. Garcia is another.

I think all the shows are getting very costly for builders and they're finding themselves spread thin.
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Old 03-03-2014, 09:36 AM   #20
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A new steel 51' sedan-style passagemaker for $600k

SHM has a very busy yard.

I think the larger builders aren't just following the market and they aren't just following revenue.... They are following margins.

To the $1.5M+ buyer, $150k may not be much more to get a little roomier cockpit from which to dive and fish.... but that extra 5' likely doesn't cost the builder $150k more.
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