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Old 12-05-2018, 11:01 PM   #41
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The need to clean the keel cooler I think is location dependent. I never had any trouble in the PNW. But in Mexico in warmer waters I found my engine temps rising in ways I had never seen before. Cleaning the keel cooler solved the problem.


There are so many variables. It's a hard problem to solve.
What kind of cooler?
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Old 12-06-2018, 07:32 AM   #42
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What kind of cooler?

Fernstrum.


Another maintenance item that I forgot to mention is changing zincs on the keel cooler. They didn't last very long on our 60, and every 4-6 months had to be replaced. Other zincs were good for a year or even two depending on the water. In the PNW they lasted a lot longer than Mexico. My guess is because of the salinity level, but I don't really know.
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Old 12-06-2018, 10:03 AM   #43
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Fernstrum.


Another maintenance item that I forgot to mention is changing zincs on the keel cooler. They didn't last very long on our 60, and every 4-6 months had to be replaced. Other zincs were good for a year or even two depending on the water. In the PNW they lasted a lot longer than Mexico. My guess is because of the salinity level, but I don't really know.
Walters don't require cleaning like that. The tubes are separated by a couple of inches and get hot enough nothing really sticks to them. Zincs, yes, every six months or so.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:25 PM   #44
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And FWIW, I just measured the DB level in the pilothouse underway and outside on the top deck just aft of the dry stack, but out of the wind, and they measured 61 and 70 db respectively.
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:46 PM   #45
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And FWIW, I just measured the DB level in the pilothouse underway and outside on the top deck just aft of the dry stack, but out of the wind, and they measured 61 and 70 db respectively.


That’s very good, and much better than my 60. As I recall, the boat deck and flybridge were in the high 70s.

I think the lesson here is that it’s very implementation specific.
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:46 PM   #46
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That’s very good, and much better than my 60. As I recall, the boat deck and flybridge were in the high 70s.

I think the lesson here is that it’s very implementation specific.
I'm convinced that lining the entirety of all inside surfaces with 1/4" acoustical Cory has made a lot of difference, comfort wise, on this boat.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:55 PM   #47
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Twisted, I happened on this site by accident, www.nordhavnfacts.com. Somebody has really got a bug in his bonnet to go after NH like this. Any insight on the background of this story, realizing there are always two sides to the tale?
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:21 PM   #48
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Interesting project. Very interesting discussion.

All this talk of soot got me wondering about tier 4 compliant systems. Are there any available that would suit?
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:45 PM   #49
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. Regarding impellors, I had two, but eliminated the pump for hydraulic cooling with a Grunfos electric pump that is silent and zero maintenance.
I had electric centrifugal pumps suggested to me after I had bought a spare belt driven impeller pump for our 855 Cummins after having a pump get the death wobbles a year or so ago.


With higher rpm requiring more water flow how was the speed of the pump controlled?
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:16 PM   #50
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Twisted, I happened on this site by accident, www.nordhavnfacts.com. Somebody has really got a bug in his bonnet to go after NH like this. Any insight on the background of this story, realizing there are always two sides to the tale?
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Well, one fact. The buyer sued Nordhavn and lost, so the court did not agree with him. He really had the bug in his bonnet after losing the case.

That entire deal was well out of Nordhavn's normal realm. 120' Boat, delivery by water. Probably a deal neither party should have made.

Now, I do think the surveys are rather condemning of the situation. I put the most credence in Mr. D'Antonio's because of all the specifics listed. The others build from that.

It looks to me like the condition of the boat, especially the interior, may well have deteriorated by exposure on the long delivery trip. However, also some design and manufacturing issues.

Here's where I think the deal was impossible from the start as discussed in another thread. The contract read over and over equal or better than Westport. There was an expectation of Westport's on time delivery. Not reasonable with Nordhavn, especially a new model. Westport doesn't pre-sell new models like that. Quality of carpentry and other things equal or better than Westport. You're talking a very good trawler builder vs one of the top quality yacht builders. Not likely. Westport delivers a finished boat but they are semi-custom with a lot of standard equipment. Nordhavn allows a buyer to choose virtually any equipment. Where this deal was doomed was the buyer and Nordhavn personnel walking through and spending time on Westport's and then deciding, "yes Nordhavn can do exactly what Westport can do." Westport would never enter a contract saying, "We'll agree to any equipment you want, just like Nordhavn." There were 1000's of changes made after the start of production. With Westport, everything is detailed when you sign the contract. You don't change things throughout. Now, some of that is a result of a new design, but again, something Nordhavn might do that Westport wouldn't.

The buyer's expectations were unreasonable and I don't know why Nordhavn agreed to put them in a contract. Nordhavn and Westport are very good builders with tons of happy customers. However, very different, opposite extremes. Twisted and I have communicated. He's been aboard Westports and he will tell you he could not live with the limitations they put on you, he wants far more choices.

Now, this doesn't excuse the lateness, a pet peeve of mine, but nothing in the contract spelled out a penalty for such. They just agreed they wouldn't be late. Now does it excuse the long list of issues pointed out in the various surveys. This was not up to Nordhavn normal standards. I think Nordhavn bit off more boat than they were prepared for and just because you build very good 68' boats doesn't mean you're ready to build a 120' boat.

I don't care about his damaged washer and dryer, $8000 our of $16 million. I do think there were some poorly designed items. And I think that by finishing the boat before shipping it rather than their normal extensive (which I hate but Nordhavn owners are use to) commissioning that left a lot of things done poorly and overlooked. Again, Nordhavn outside their norm. Not commissioned by those who normally do a US or Canadian boat. The buyer expected a boat completely finished prior to shipping and delivered in 100% condition. That's not how Nordhavn operates. That is how Westport does.

My conclusion. I'd not recommend a 120' from Nordhavn today. Not the first builder I've seen struggle with a boat much larger than their norm. However, it doesn't change at all my view of their normal sized boats. I'd not expect Nordhavn to be just like Westport. I would expect their management to not let egos get in their way and make such promises. If you went to Westport and said "I want you to walk through this Nordhavn with me and then I'm going to put all the things I want done just like it", that would be the shortest discussion ever. ABS compliance was a major challenge. Well, Westport has 4 current models and has built from 15 to 60 of three of them. ABS is routine for them. I have never seen a contract in which many of the items were defined to be equal to or better than another manufacturer. Who even decides?

Now you have the buyer, a poor loser, and he chooses not just to build a site but to pay Google enough to advertise it and get it to show up at the top of any search. I'm sorry, but that does not do much for my impression of him.

Oh, and before one says, perhaps the buyer didn't know. Well, he'd already purchased several Nordhavns.

Had I purchase the boat, I would have been very upset with the condition based on the surveys. Entirely unacceptable. However, I'm not one to purchase a new model, especially one far larger than what the company is building. I would have recommended he either take a 96 or buy a Westport or wait and buy the 2nd or 3rd 120.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:17 PM   #51
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Twisted, I happened on this site by accident, www.nordhavnfacts.com. Somebody has really got a bug in his bonnet to go after NH like this. Any insight on the background of this story, realizing there are always two sides to the tale?
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Make a note too. Twisted will not encounter what that buyer did. He'll get a very nice boat and be very happy.
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Old 12-07-2018, 09:41 PM   #52
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I had electric centrifugal pumps suggested to me after I had bought a spare belt driven impeller pump for our 855 Cummins after having a pump get the death wobbles a year or so ago.


With higher rpm requiring more water flow how was the speed of the pump controlled?
The hydraulic cooling impellor pump I replaced was constant speed, so I just matched the flow with the Grunfos I replaced it with. That is s closed coolant loop. If I replace the pump on the genset, same scenario as it is constant speed. The main would be a different story although I imagine proportioning valves could be used if you have raw water mixed with the exhaust. Since I'm dry stack, keel cooled with a closed system I fortunately don't have to worry about that.

I've already replaced the Northern Lights genset pump once due to sea water seepage. $600, which is an absolute rip off. The rebuild was $500. The new one is already starting to seep as well.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:28 PM   #53
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Bingo. Lots of acreage to clean. But my wife is up to it. She claims that’s her job, and who am I to argue


Indeed... my wife and I (+ our 7 year old son) live full time on a Nordhavn 72 and the only problem we have is the cleaning. We’ve decided that paying others to do this but doing almost all our own maintenance is a good balance and seems to work for us so far. Docking and passagemaking with the 2 of us isn’t an issue.

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Old 12-08-2018, 06:38 AM   #54
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TT, Congrats on your new build, you must be very excited.

Are people with similar sized N's using Yacht Controllers?

I only know of one or two, but there are probably more. All the bigger Nordhavns have wing stations so you can operate from the side of the portuguese bridge, and often the stern as well.


On our 60, the wing stations were all optional, but it was less expensive to add three than to install a Yacht Controller. On the 68 the wing stations are all standard equipment.
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Old 12-08-2018, 06:42 AM   #55
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Your probably already planning on doing so, but make sure you install a hydraulic high pressure washer. Ours saves us SO much time in keeping the exterior clean.

Very interesting debate on them. Your boat is painted, right? It must be. The reports from friends with pressure washers is that they work great, but take the wax off the gel coast along with the dirt. I know one guy who had one on his last boat and is eliminating it on his next for just this reason.


The area where everyone seems to agree they are useful is for washing the anchor and chain as they come aboard if you don't have a built-in anchor wash. The 68 does have an anchor wash, so I'm not installing a pressure washer.
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Old 12-08-2018, 07:42 AM   #56
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I had not seen Conconi's web site, but there is nothing news worthy there. It was a long drawn out fight, the court found in PAE (Nordhavn's) favor on all counts, it was appealed, and again found in PAE's favor.


It was not a happy start for the boat, but as I mentioned in another thread, I was on the 120 maybe a year ago, hosted by the first mate. The whole crew absolutely loves the boat, and couldn't stop complementing it, especially compared to other large yachts they had run before. And the boat is very actively used. California one day, then Newport RI then next.... It's a very happy second chapter.
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Old 12-08-2018, 10:14 AM   #57
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Very interesting debate on them. Your boat is painted, right? It must be. The reports from friends with pressure washers is that they work great, but take the wax off the gel coast along with the dirt. I know one guy who had one on his last boat and is eliminating it on his next for just this reason.


The area where everyone seems to agree they are useful is for washing the anchor and chain as they come aboard if you don't have a built-in anchor wash. The 68 does have an anchor wash, so I'm not installing a pressure washer.
Awlgrip. Never had a problem with harming the paint at 3000 psi. I find that pressure washing lets me avoid washing for around 10 cycles. The unit I have allows a reduction in pressure if desired. Put the right nozzle on and you can cut through kelp on the anchor. We use it to blast away seaweed skirts on the top couple of inches of the hull (pick a warm day as you get very West). I frankly could not imagine not having that piece of equipment and marvel I never see them.
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Old 12-08-2018, 11:38 AM   #58
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A wing, or operating from the stern from your sized boat would make a big difference.

I am having a YC installed next week because I do a decent amount of solo operation. Low wind docking has not been an issue, but having the engine thrust, along with the thrusters will be good when I am operating it myself. I had one on our previous boat and it was worth the money IMO.
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Old 12-08-2018, 12:04 PM   #59
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I had not seen Conconi's web site, but there is nothing news worthy there. It was a long drawn out fight, the court found in PAE (Nordhavn's) favor on all counts, it was appealed, and again found in PAE's favor.


It was not a happy start for the boat, but as I mentioned in another thread, I was on the 120 maybe a year ago, hosted by the first mate. The whole crew absolutely loves the boat, and couldn't stop complementing it, especially compared to other large yachts they had run before. And the boat is very actively used. California one day, then Newport RI then next.... It's a very happy second chapter.
Also understand that Twisted is too diplomatic to tell you the rest of the story on Conconi. Let's just simply say he not only lost in his battle with PAE but he lost in his battle with British Columbia as well. Look at his name very carefully and the three words contained in it. No further comment needed.
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Old 12-09-2018, 12:09 PM   #60
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congratulations!

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A bunch is answered in this earlier article - from a full year ago when we contracted the build. But a highlights list would be:


- More space - that's obvious
- I want the more comfortable ride in head seas of an aft PH arrangement. The increased weight helps too. 230,000 lbs is a lot of weight.
- Wet exhaust. Dry exhaust was a big mistake, in my mind.
- A number of visibility improvements both while underway, and while at anchor.
- A second, smaller generator.


Most of these are things you can't practically change in a boat, but there were other factors that lead to a new build:


- We were ready for a bit of a break from cruising. We love it, but had been accumulating a big backlog of other things we want to do. So the idea of a couple year break was attractive. That said, every time we see a boat or hear of someone visiting a place we like, it pains us to not have a boat.


- Our 60 offered great resale value. We bought at a good time, improved it in many ways, which allowing us to sell it with a pretty good net annual cost of ownership. Owning it was much like lending someone money for a few years, and instead of collecting interest, you get lots of fun and enjoyment. Then at the end you get most of your money back. So financially it was not a bath, but money well spent.


So all the stars aligned for another build. Plus, I'm trying to keep up with John Torelli...
You are in the big leagues compared to us. The cost of your new boat is more than our three Nordies and Helmsman added together. Looking forward to following your journey. Can you expand on what you don't like about the dry stack exhaust design besides the warmer ER? Having owned boats with both designs I actually appreciated the dry stack exhaust being up high and no exhaust fumes. I don't like the warmer ER. Best of luck.

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