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Old 01-08-2011, 04:27 PM   #1
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Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

I recently purchased a 1997 Nordic Tug 32 - hull 101. I want to troll for salmon in BC waters and have found that, even at idle, the boat is moving too fast for effective trolling. The options that I am considering are installation of a trolling valve vs attaching an outboard kicker on the swim grid.

There seem to be several advantages to an outboard; one obvious advantage is that I will have a backup engine in case of trouble with the main engine (220 hp Cummins) as long as the outboard is big enough. Also I won't have to run the large engine at slow speeds, which is apparently not recommended. Also puts me in the cockpit to control the rods and downriggers. An obvious disadvantage is gasoline storage onboard.

Does anyone have experience with this or helpful comments?

Thanks
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Old 01-08-2011, 04:50 PM   #2
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Perhaps a drogue would work if you had a way to keep the fishing lines away*from tangling with the drogue and its line.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:38 PM   #3
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Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Tatlayoko,
Your ND is beautiful. I'm shopping for and lusting for Nordic Tugs now. Folks do a lot of fishing here in Alaska and just about everyone uses a kicker. Something you may want to evaluate is your prop loading. With an over propped boat your ability to make way very slowly is greatly impaired. A propeller is correct when one can go to full throttle and attain the rpm that the engine is rated for. Many boats are over propped and will not make rated rpm. It's amazing how much thrust an over propped boat will have at idle. Around moorings and other tight places it becomes necessary to constantly go in and out of gear to keep from going too fast. It's ok for the gear box though as long as you shift quickly.
Slow shifting is very bad for the clutches. Consider the prop but you'll probably need a 10 hp 4 stroke OB. Thanks for posting the picture****** ...there are many more to come*** ..right?
PS*** Where is lake Tatlayoko ?


-- Edited by nomadwilly on Saturday 8th of January 2011 07:38:43 PM
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Old 01-08-2011, 08:06 PM   #4
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

How fast does she go at idle?* It is possible to reduce speed by reducing*ME idle*for short term needs, but it would not be the best solution for the engine.* My Cummins manual says no more than 10 minutes at idle.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:13 PM   #5
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

try using a 5 gallon bucket as a drogue. If still too fast, toss out 2 buckets.

Cheapest drogue you can buy.
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:17 PM   #6
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Quote:
nomadwilly wrote:

*Where is lake Tatlayoko ?

Last I heard it was in the middle of British Columbia.

*
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Old 01-08-2011, 09:29 PM   #7
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Quote:
Tatlayoko wrote:

I recently purchased a 1997 Nordic Tug 32 - hull 101. I want to troll for salmon in BC waters and have found that, even at idle, the boat is moving too fast for effective trolling. The options that I am considering are installation of a trolling valve vs attaching an outboard kicker on the swim grid.

There seem to be several advantages to an outboard; one obvious advantage is that I will have a backup engine in case of trouble with the main engine (220 hp Cummins) as long as the outboard is big enough. Also I won't have to run the large engine at slow speeds, which is apparently not recommended. Also puts me in the cockpit to control the rods and downriggers. An obvious disadvantage is gasoline storage onboard.

Does anyone have experience with this or helpful comments?

Thanks
I installed a trolling valve for the same reasons, but found it still didn't slow me enough, even at idle. I then added a three foot diameter drogue, and could get just above two knots. I only cut my speed by about half a knot with just the trolling valve.

*
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Old 01-09-2011, 12:45 AM   #8
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Thank you for the replies. A drogue is a low tech solution to the problem but would cause* trouble when a hooked fish gets close to the boat. I think the best solution for me will be the suggested 15 hp kicker with a long tiller.

Tatlayoko Lake is a tiny community located in west central British Columbia in a wilderness area called the Chilcotin. The population within fifty miles is around 300 people, surging to 400 during the summer. The nearest place of business is Williams Lake, a 3 hour drive east which begins at my home with 20 miles of gravel road. I live 4.5 hours from the nearest salt water access at Bella Coola, which begs the question 'Why did I buy a Nordic Tug?' And there is currently no sensible answer for this.

If you are interested you can open Google Earth and type Tatlayoko Lake in the search bar at the top left, where it says 'fly to'.

Invictus is a dream come true for my wife and I and we can hardly believe we own such a thing. She's fully equipped with all sorts of equipment and electronics.... lots for us to learn. We very excited and can hardly wait for warm weather to arrive so we can start using her. We currently have her moored at Ladysmith on Vancouver Island where my sister has water front with deep moorage dock.

In May we will bring her up to Bella Coola which will be home as long as we own her.

Since we just bought the boat in November there really aren't many images yet, but here is a a link to a Picasa web album: http://picasaweb.google.com/tatlayok...6Hw9DO5L2toAE#. Enjoy!
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Old 01-09-2011, 01:42 AM   #9
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Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Quote:
Tatlayoko wrote:

*An obvious disadvantage is gasoline storage onboard.
An outboard is also a substantial acquisition cost.**A proper mount will also cost.* Outboards are also subject to being stolen.* The controls will probably need to be remote from the engine (more expense and hassle).* The engine would be subject to damage/loss during severe weather conditions.

Change*from builder-installed propeller could*also result in unintended negative consequences*with the boat's performance

I strongly suggest you first try employing a drogue: bucket, fabric, whatever.* The investment will be minimal compared to the outboard motor route.

Edit (Tatlayoko, just saw your last post):* Are outboards available with enough shaft length so the controls will*be readily accessible?

*


-- Edited by markpierce on Sunday 9th of January 2011 02:45:15 AM
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Old 01-09-2011, 10:49 AM   #10
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Tat,I'll look later but it sounds like it's near Chilco Lake. We went there a few years back and wife Chris REALLY liked Hegensborg. She wanted to move there. Wonderful wilderness area considerably more remote than here in SE Alaska.
About idle speed and trolling. If you can go hard against the idle stop immediately after a cold start and run fairly smooth your idle speed is probably a bit too high. If you go too low your engine may die while maneuvering on a cold engine.
Oh I see you on a paper map. My guess was more accurate than I thought. Lots of Brown Bears I suppose. What boat do you use on the lake?
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Old 01-10-2011, 06:42 PM   #11
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Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Quote:
Tatlayoko wrote:

I want to troll for salmon in BC waters and have found that, even at idle, the boat is moving too fast for effective trolling.
Depends on what kind of salmon you're trolling for.* Silvers will often go for lures trolled pretty fast near the surface.* In fact something I've always wanted to try is the "fly" fishing that folks used to--- and perhaps still do--- do for silvers up around Campbell River and the south end of Quadra Island.* Big feathered fly trolled fairly quickly right on the surface.

But for kings you need to go deep and slow.* It would be interesting to know how the commercial salmon trollers do it since all they have are their main propulsion engines.* I don't know if they have reduction gearboxes that let them ooze through the water at a couple of knots or what.* We've trolled for halibut off the west coast of Vancouver Island in our 17' Arima, and once we doing this in company with a commercial troller that was fishing for salmon.* We were using our 6hp trolling motor, the 40' or so troller was using it's main propulsion engine, and we were both going about the same speed--- two or three knots.*

Of course we only had two lines and two downrigggers down where he had four or six main lines hanging off his outriggers with Lord knows how many lures trailing back from each one of them, so he had a lot more drag to deal with.

For a 32 foot boat like yours I would think a trolling outboard would be the best bet if there was an intelligent way to mount it and get the lower end out of the water when you weren't using it.* You probalby wouldn't have to steer it--- you could use the boat's rudder for that. And you could proably just set the power to where you wanted it--- no need for a remote throttle.* On our Arima the trolling motor is tied to the main outboard for steering with an EZ Steer. The throttle I just reach down and set at the motor.

But you can size an outboard to push your boat at trolling speeds with the outboard running in whatever it's comfort range is and you can do this all day with no worries about loading up your boat's diesel.* Particularly if your boat's main engine is turbocharged.

Trolling valves can work but I hear people like Carey*say they don't let them go slow enough to troll for kings.* Drogues or buckets-on-a-rope would be*a pain in the a*s I think.

If your boat has a swimstep that will make it pretty easy to mount an outboard on it.* There are probably off-the-shelf mounts designed specfically for this.* The mount will determine whether you need a longshaft motor or can get away with*a standard short shaft.* Our Arima requires a longshaft and I wouldn't be surprised if mounting an outboard on your boat will, too.

I don't know what size of outboard is ideal for your size and weight of boat but it won't be cheap if you get a good one (Honda, Yamaha).* On the other hand if you size it right it could move your boat along at a decent pace if you had to use it in a get-home situation.* Don't forget the kinds of currents you can be bucking up there, so don't undersize the motor just to save a bit of money.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 10th of January 2011 07:47:46 PM
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Old 01-10-2011, 07:08 PM   #12
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Quote:
Marin wrote:

*
Tatlayoko wrote:

I want to troll for salmon in BC waters and have found that, even at idle, the boat is moving too fast for effective trolling.
Depends on what kind of salmon you're trolling for.* Silvers will often go for lures trolled pretty fast near the surface.* In fact something I've always wanted to try is the "fly" fishing that folks used to--- and perhaps still do--- do for silvers up around Campbell River and the south end of Quadra Island.* Big feathered fly trolled fairly quickly right on the surface.

But for kings you need to go deep and slow.* It would be interesting to know how the commercial salmon trollers do it since all they have are their main propulsion engines.* I don't know if they have reduction gearboxes that let them ooze through the water at a couple of knots or what.* We've trolled for halibut off the west coast of Vancouver Island in our 17' Arima, and once we doing this in company with a commercial troller that was fishing for salmon.* We were using our 6hp trolling motor, the 40' or so troller was using it's main propulsion engine, and we were both going about the same speed--- two or three knots.*

Of course we only had two lines and two downrigggers down where he had four or six main lines hanging off his outriggers with Lord knows how many lures trailing back from each one of them, so he had a lot more drag to deal with.

For a 32 foot boat like yours I would think a trolling outboard would be the best bet if there was an intelligent way to mount it and get the lower end out of the water when you weren't using it.* You probalby wouldn't have to steer it--- you could use the boat's rudder for that. And you could proably just set the power to where you wanted it--- no need for a remote throttle.* On our Arima the trolling motor is tied to the main outboard for steering with an EZ Steer. The throttle I just reach down and set at the motor.

But you can size an outboard to push your boat at trolling speeds with the outboard running in whatever it's comfort range is and you can do this all day with no worries about loading up your boat's diesel.* Particularly if your boat's main engine is turbocharged.

Trolling valves can work but I hear people like Carey*say they don't let them go slow enough to troll for kings.* Drogues or buckets-on-a-rope would be*a pain in the a*s I think.

If your boat has a swimstep that will make it pretty easy to mount an outboard on it.* There are probably off-the-shelf mounts designed specfically for this.* The mount will determine whether you need a longshaft motor or can get away with*a standard short shaft.* Our Arima requires a longshaft and I wouldn't be surprised if mounting an outboard on your boat will, too.

I don't know what size of outboard is ideal for your size and weight of boat but it won't be cheap if you get a good one (Honda, Yamaha).* On the other hand if you size it right it could move your boat along at a decent pace if you had to use it in a get-home situation.* Don't forget the kinds of currents you can be bucking up there, so don't undersize the motor just to save a bit of money.

-- Edited by Marin on Monday 10th of January 2011 07:47:46 PMYes, there are brackets that will get your kicker up out of the water. A company in Bellingham by the name Pooderbuilt makes a good one, and I know there are many more. There is also a remote control system (I forget the name) that allows you to steer from a position well away from the outboard. Ask at any chandlery in the NW.

*
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:09 PM   #13
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Thanks to everyone for the input. This forum is a wonderful resource. I think the answer for me will be a 15 hp outboard mounted on a hinged bracket. This seems like the most economical and practical solution. I especially like that it provides a backup engine if the main were to have a problem. I'll have to give some thought to safe storage of gasoline on board.

Thanks,
Peter
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:30 PM   #14
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Quote:
Tatlayoko wrote:

I'll have to give some thought to safe storage of gasoline on board.
I assume you have, or will have, a dinghy or shoreboat of some sort.* It*might be outboard powered, too.* So you'll need to keep gas somewhere.* We keep our gasoline for the dingy motor in the sailing dinghy that came with our boat that's carried on the aft cabin top.* It's a fun boat to sail but for our everyday shoreboat we installed a*Livingston in Weaver Davits on the swimstep.* It has a 4hp 4-cycle Yamaha motor on a pivot mount.* Keeping the gas can in the sailing dinghy keeps it out of the way and out of the GB itself.

Don't know where you carry/will carry a shoreboat but it may be you can store the gasoline in it.* Another possibility is in a can fastened down to the swim step (if you have one)*in some manner.* If you do this you want might to make a canvas cover for it to protect the plastic tank from UV.

*
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Old 01-11-2011, 10:19 AM   #15
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Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

You may already know this, but for a heavy boat with a small kicker you'll want a "high thrust" version of the kicker. Different gearing, and bigger flatter-pitched prop than the ordinary outboard setup made to run a small boat fast. Also significantly better thrust in reverse (should you be using it as backup propulsion). For example:

http://www.yamaha-motor.com/outboard...me/4/home.aspx

Another desirable option is a prop saver (collar) to keep line and downrigger cable out of the kicker prop, especially when turning. It also adds a bit more thrust.

http://www.propsavers.com/Prop%20Saver.html

For our 11K lb boat, we use a 9.9 hp high-thrust Yamaha. Great reliable little motor.* Only maintenance so far in 12 years is annual prop shaft clean and lube, oil changes, and a couple of sets of spark plugs.* Gas is in a built-in ten-gallon tank, from which on occasion we draw a refill for the dinghy motor's 1-quart tank.


-- Edited by RCook on Tuesday 11th of January 2011 11:21:38 AM
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:46 PM   #16
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RE: Trolling for salmon aboard a Nordic Tug 32

Peter I loved your photo album.* What a beautiful boat, enjoy!!
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Old 05-21-2012, 07:47 PM   #17
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Hi Peter,
Wondering what you ended up doing. Just found this forum and loved your pictures. I'm in Tsawwassen with a 6000lb Palmer Clear Passage trawler (quite a bit older than yours!) but find myself with the same dilemma you had. Did you install a kicker on the swim platform? If so, how do you control it when trolling?
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Old 05-29-2012, 11:47 AM   #18
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We took a trip up to Chilco Lake a few years ago. Had a big freight canoe on a small extended trailer. The gravel road to Chilco Lake beat the trailer to death and we left it at a garbage dump in the Nemaiah Valley. We ran practically to the so end of Chilco Lake in the big canoe. Was one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. Wind came up in the afternoon (20 +) and we got a thrilling ride back with the seas.

The photographer Randy Kerr that we bought our Willard from goes to Chilco lake almost regularly. He was surprised to find out we'd been there. Look up his photography ...... you wo'nt be disappointed.
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Old 05-29-2012, 09:39 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimbalayaJones View Post
Hi Peter,
Wondering what you ended up doing. Just found this forum and loved your pictures. I'm in Tsawwassen with a 6000lb Palmer Clear Passage trawler (quite a bit older than yours!) but find myself with the same dilemma you had. Did you install a kicker on the swim platform? If so, how do you control it when trolling?
easy for me to figure how I would do it...outboard straight and locked...the boat rudder will manuever just fine...fish on...shift to neutral with just a long rod to the gear shift.... on a small ouitboard it would be easy to do from the main deck if the outboard is mounted to the swim platform...

way too much engineering thought going on...it's no big deal as dozens of boats I've seen have a similar setup.
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Old 10-08-2012, 12:35 PM   #20
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If you installed the Kicker midships and locked it into straight forward. (NO Tiller)
Would not the rudder from the main helm act as steering?

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