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Old 09-11-2014, 09:53 AM   #1
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Passenger Ratings

Anybody happen to know the maximum suggested passenger rating for 30' Sundowner Tugs, or comparably sized/configured vessels?
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:15 AM   #2
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How many life jackets do you have?
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:22 AM   #3
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How many life jackets do you have?
Eight.
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Old 09-11-2014, 10:53 AM   #4
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Old 09-11-2014, 11:21 AM   #5
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But in the States they can't be paying passengers unless you have a captains license.
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:30 PM   #6
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In California, only boats under 20 feet in length must display the boat's maximum capacity both in number of person, total load weight, and horsepower. Can't speak for the rest of USA, but little doubt that requirement is universal. Beyond 20 feet it is up to judgment (if considered unsafe, law enforcement will terminate the voyage.)
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Old 09-11-2014, 01:33 PM   #7
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I'll assume you are asking about the safe number of friends you can take out on the boat? Of course weather plays into this, a quiet harbour cruise for a hour is different than crossing the Hecate Straits.

For existing pleasure boats this size there are no rules on maximum number of passengers. For commercial use there are very strict rules involving a full stability study. One rule of thumb suggests the full crew on one side should not heel the boat enough to immerse more than 1/4 to 1/2 the freeboard. Freeboard is waterline to main deck height (not rail), but that may be complicated if there's a cockpit. All passengers on one side should never heel the boat more than 14 degrees, according to the US Coast Guard.

So lets look at passenger heel.....

We know that a known heeling weight moved a known distance off centerline, divided by the vessel displacement multiplied by the GM, will give us certain heel angle. So we work backwards....

I have to guess at the Sundowner numbers, beam is 11.5' and displacement 11,000 pounds? Lets say 6 people at 185 pounds moving 4.5' off centerline.

Heel angle = sin-1 (1110 * 4.5' / 11,000 * 2.2 )

= 12 degrees heel (that's safe)
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:23 PM   #8
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You still can't have more SOB's than you have life jackets for.
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Old 09-11-2014, 02:43 PM   #9
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What mark said
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Old 09-11-2014, 03:30 PM   #10
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Thanks for the input, especially Tad for the hard numbers to work from.

The Humpback Whales are back up in the top end of Douglas Channel early this year, and friends/acquaintances/workmates are hinting they want to see them up close and personal.

The most we've had aboard for an afternoon jaunt was eight (family was in town and could hardly edit some of them out ) and it felt crowded.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:33 PM   #11
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............ The most we've had aboard for an afternoon jaunt was eight (family was in town and could hardly edit some of them out ) and it felt crowded.
If it feels crowded, you are at your limit. Now think about something else - A bunch of people down low and a bunch of people on the flybridge are two different things. And if they all rush to one side to see a whale, it's even more important to limit the number of people.

Now consider conditions. A calm sunny day on an inland canal on the AICW or the open ocean with significant wind and seas.

My boat used to have a decal warning not to allow more than six people on the flybridge. The most I've had on my boat was nine and I had to borrow one PFD for the trip. It was up and down the ICW for an hour or so on a protected canal.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:01 PM   #12
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The most we've had aboard for an afternoon jaunt was eight (family was in town and could hardly edit some of them out ) and it felt crowded.
You just answered your question and there may be conditions in which the 8 is too many.

Often times boats are overloaded with no problems, but there are some injuries and lives lost regularly just because of it.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:20 PM   #13
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Murray,

The dog will have to stay home.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:23 PM   #14
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No flybridge, so no worries there.

Wouldn't want to have eight again...that was a special occasion. (Have extra lifejackets from sea kayaking days).

Was just curious as I seem to remember a reference to passenger capacity in something written by Sundowner Tugs, that's why this was posted in the Tug Designs Forum, but couldn't recall where it was.

Thanks for chiming in.
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Old 09-11-2014, 09:24 PM   #15
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Murray,

The dog will have to stay home.
He sure did stay home that day
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Old 09-12-2014, 08:08 AM   #16
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In California, only boats under 20 feet in length must display the boat's maximum capacity both in number of person, total load weight, and horsepower............
This is the legal language so if the boat is longer than 20 feet, there's no specific limit. It's up to the captain. You need to use good judgement here.

There was a recent case where a severely overloaded 36 or so foot boat capsized and lives were lost. Legislators jumped to introduce new laws but I don't think anything ever came of it.

Anecdotal experience: I was walking by the gas dock at my marina one holiday when I heard a captain telling his passengers "If we see the Coast Guard some of you will have to go below. I don't have enough life jackets for everyone."
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Old 09-12-2014, 10:38 AM   #17
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This is the legal language so if the boat is longer than 20 feet, there's no specific limit. It's up to the captain. You need to use good judgement here.

There was a recent case where a severely overloaded 36 or so foot boat capsized and lives were lost. Legislators jumped to introduce new laws but I don't think anything ever came of it.

Anecdotal experience: I was walking by the gas dock at my marina one holiday when I heard a captain telling his passengers "If we see the Coast Guard some of you will have to go below. I don't have enough life jackets for everyone."
And just because there is no "official" number of passengers, that does not mean the Coast Guard or others can't cite you for being overloaded. It becomes judgement and you might not be found guilty. More likely they'd have you go slowly and follow you to a dock for you to remove a couple of people.
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Old 07-26-2015, 09:14 AM   #18
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My dock neighbor is a Coast Guard inspected passenger vessel. It is a 30' lobster boat and is rated for 23 passengers.
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Old 07-26-2015, 10:01 AM   #19
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Anybody happen to know the maximum suggested passenger rating for 30' Sundowner Tugs, or comparably sized/configured vessels?
Hi Murray

On every boat owned... We always carry more life jackets than should be needed, all in accessible locations. IMO that is a very simple (potentially lifesaving) safety measure that requires little to no maintenance effort. Our Tolly has 10 adult sized vests on fly bridge (I nearly always pilot from bridge) and several in forward cabin closet. Additionally aboard, we have three child size and two for infants.

Reason: - Ya just never know what might happen. Could be that passengers on our boat need to don them due to rough sea conditions... or God forbid for an emergency or calamity. Although I've never had occasion, I feel we have enough extras to throw to others on/in the water if they need that for assistance. I also keep two life rings with 75' 3/8" floating line hung on either outside of the bridge.

Most people we’ve had on our Tolly was eight. Most on bridge was four.

Here’s link to basic safety number of passengers from back in the day that was recommended by Tollycraft Corp when in production. 1950’s through early 90’s approx. 6,500 Tolly’s splashed. Thousands are still being looked after… ours included.

Tolly Classified - Model Selection

“Vehicle Specification Numbers” - Page bottom.

“Model Selection” 1956 – 1991 – Page top

PS: Tad’s post #7 is point-on!
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:11 PM   #20
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In Queensland, nanny state that we are for marine rules, a boat must have an ABP (Australian Builders Plate) or a capacity label at each helm position. I've attached the flybridge version of the label, p2 of the pdf shows the calculation.

If over 6 metres then capacity is 0.75 x length x sq rt (beam)
For flybridge boats then it is 0.6 x length x sq rt (beam)

So on my OA Mk 1, I end up with a capacity label that allows 20 persons, maximum of 5 on flybridge. The formula is a bit crude, but I dont like crowded boats and I think it gives realistic numbers and guidance.


In NSW rules are different as there is a Mk 1 in Sydney that is certified to take 30 guests for cruises (enclosed waters).
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File Type: pdf capacitylabelflybridge2013press(1).pdf (258.8 KB, 46 views)
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