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Old 07-26-2015, 07:33 PM   #21
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Brian, for private use boats in NSW State, setting passenger limits is a DIY exercise. My boat came without the mandatory pax sticker, I asked Maritime for one, they sent me some blank stickers and sets of adhesive numerals to put on them once I decided on max pax numbers plus some guidelines of what might be appropriate.
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Old 07-26-2015, 07:33 PM   #22
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In Queensland, nanny state that we are for marine rules, a boat must have an ABP (Australian Builders Plate) or a capacity label at each helm position. I've attached the flybridge version of the label, p2 of the pdf shows the calculation.
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I notice one emphasis on the label too that this is the capacity in SMOOTH WATER and a reduction MUST be made in adverse conditions.

When we go offshore we can't guarantee conditions will remain smooth so really shouldn't push the limits.
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Old 07-26-2015, 08:17 PM   #23
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I notice one emphasis on the label too that this is the capacity in SMOOTH WATER and a reduction MUST be made in adverse conditions.

When we go offshore we can't guarantee conditions will remain smooth so really shouldn't push the limits.
Well Smooth Water is actually a defined limit and it is not related to your own opinion of sea state, as follows:

"Smooth waters include rivers, creeks, streams and lakes, waters within breakwaters or revetments and within half a nautical mile from land within partially smooth water limits."

Here is the link to more detailed designations, with links to some 'chartlets':
Smooth and partially smooth water limits (Maritime Safety Queensland)

Mandatory Safety Equipment on board is related to whether you are in smooth water, partially smooth water or beyond such waters.
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Old 03-08-2016, 08:20 PM   #24
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Would love to know how Tad estimated the GM for his numerical exercise? Seems a little loosey-goosey to be declared 'safe' so authoritatively. Unless he knows something we don't.
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Old 03-08-2016, 09:17 PM   #25
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probably does....there are simplified estimations in all engineering disciplines.


no guarantees because boat mods can take the average boat and turn it into a death trap...but generally not.
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Old 03-09-2016, 01:24 PM   #26
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Would love to know how Tad estimated the GM for his numerical exercise? Seems a little loosey-goosey to be declared 'safe' so authoritatively. Unless he knows something we don't.
First, yes, I know something you don't. Rather I have some experience that's relevant. It's an educated guess at the worst case.

I estimated GM based on my experience and my general knowledge of the particular boat in question, and then used a conservative fudge to create a "worst case".

The typical smallish fiberglass production boat, relatively lightly built, fairly wide, not particularly tall, with relatively shallow draft, with full fuel and two people aboard, will have a GM somewhere between 2' and 3.5'.

The Sundowner tug is low, has no flying bridge with hardtop and AC, no huge deck crane and RIB on the rooftop. In normal full load condition GM will be 3.5' or more. But adding 12 people on the deck and trunk cabin will raise G quite a bit. So I reduced GM to 2.2', though I believe it will be higher than that. Pretty sure if everybody stood on the PH roof GM could be 2.2'.
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Old 03-09-2016, 02:36 PM   #27
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Stupid details, if your kayak lifejackets are the type that are worn, as in type 3, they do not qualify as Type 2 (the usual life jacket found on boats,) and do not count as life jackets (pfd) unless they are being worn.

This has to do with the jackets ability to keep an unconscious wearers head above the water, that's why the pfd has all the flotation on the front and that irritating collar across the back of your head.

Stupid trivial pursuit type information, but if you get stopped because your boat looks overloaded the first thing the LEO is going to ask is to see your life jackets. That's when the devil is in the details.




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No flybridge, so no worries there.
Wouldn't want to have eight again...that was a special occasion. (Have extra lifejackets from sea kayaking days).
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Old 03-09-2016, 03:37 PM   #28
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I believe type III's do count if not worn..it is many of the type V's that have to be worn to count.


The USCG is supposedly changing the labels on PFDs so bottom line read the label.


For activities that you may fall at speed...usually a "watersports" labeled PFD is required ...tough call though for LEOs as I am not sure there is a clear law on that one and might even vary from state to state.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:02 PM   #29
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No one has suggested contacting the builder?
No one has suggested assigning seats?
If the crowd contains children.... good luck. They move scatter quickly. Assign the child-parent rule. One parent for each child onboard and make sure you have the proper PFD for the kids and pets.
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Old 10-02-2017, 04:13 PM   #30
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No one has suggested contacting the builder?
Perhaps because the builder no longer exists? Do they? I'm not familiar with them if they do.
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Old 10-02-2017, 05:20 PM   #31
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No one has suggested contacting the builder?
No one has suggested assigning seats?
If the crowd contains children.... good luck. They move scatter quickly. Assign the child-parent rule. One parent for each child onboard and make sure you have the proper PFD for the kids and pets.
Thanks for waking up this three year old thread, but me-thinks it was answered in post #7 by Tad Roberts (naval architect):

Quote:
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I'll assume you are asking about the safe number of friends you can take out on the boat? Of course weather plays into this, a quiet harbour cruise for a hour is different than crossing the Hecate Straits.

For existing pleasure boats this size there are no rules on maximum number of passengers. For commercial use there are very strict rules involving a full stability study. One rule of thumb suggests the full crew on one side should not heel the boat enough to immerse more than 1/4 to 1/2 the freeboard. Freeboard is waterline to main deck height (not rail), but that may be complicated if there's a cockpit. All passengers on one side should never heel the boat more than 14 degrees, according to the US Coast Guard.

So lets look at passenger heel.....

We know that a known heeling weight moved a known distance off centerline, divided by the vessel displacement multiplied by the GM, will give us certain heel angle. So we work backwards....

I have to guess at the Sundowner numbers, beam is 11.5' and displacement 11,000 pounds? Lets say 6 people at 185 pounds moving 4.5' off centerline.

Heel angle = sin-1 (1110 * 4.5' / 11,000 * 2.2 )

= 12 degrees heel (that's safe)
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