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Old 04-27-2015, 11:45 AM   #21
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I would rather want a boat than own a Manatee. They are coyote ugly.
I resemble that remark!
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:11 PM   #22
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I was contacted by a fellow here on Vancouver Island that wanted my opinion on a Manatee that was located in the LA area which I suspect is probably this boat. This was about 3 years ago. I got all the pictures and information he was able to get and had a real close look at it. He came to view my boat for comparison. We had a long discussion about it and from what I could see I told him that unless they were going to give him the boat for free, keep looking.


If it is the same boat, it looks and sounds like it has suffered years of neglect and probably needs more work than is obvious from the pictures and info I had available to me. So proceed carefully, I think all your repair estimations are way low.
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:31 PM   #23
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I resemble that remark!

ROFLOL!!!

@DJM, I do not deny the cult following these boats have but I do openly question the logic of pursuing an essentially abandoned boat.

Now many folks buy and refurbish cult boats all the time like the Bertram 31 with no hope of "breaking even". My own boat is an example as my PO took an 80% loss selling to me. If this boat is a hobby that you have the desire, time and money to pursue go for it. But don't count on it pencilling out.

So far this boat has been described as non functional derelict in the marina that is rejoining the Eco system. Dead engine, generator green decks and who knows what else. The only thing left to make this boat any less desirable is if it also has a saturated hull core.

What are the chances the owner would agree to how much damage he did to a boat through neglect that he likely paid $125K+ for?
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:47 PM   #24
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If ya want to be happy for the rest of your life make an ugly woman your wife???

Old soul song.... Aye Thomas??

One thing I know from personal experience, it will in the end cost more in money and aggravation than imaginable. Once comitted there ain't no turning back and there are more dominos than ever thought possible to fall. Good luck.

My advice.....spend more and buy a better boat..there is a turnkey 44 Hatteras LRC looking for a buyer on the west Coast I think. Hatteras still has parts in inventory when needed.
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:51 PM   #25
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Greetings,
Mr. M. Poor you. There are NO ugly women!
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Old 04-27-2015, 12:59 PM   #26
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Greetings,
Mr. M. Poor you. There are NO ugly women!
Well said.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:10 PM   #27
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Greetings,
Mr. M. Poor you. There are NO ugly women!
Wanta bet??? You live with a beauty contest winner that gets down on your ass and she goes to work on you she can get ugly fast. You will find you cannot walk, talk, inhale, exhale or exist right she can get pretty ugly to you in a hurry even if she look like she fell from a center fold.
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Old 04-27-2015, 05:52 PM   #28
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Wanta bet??? You live with a beauty contest winner that gets down on your ass and she goes to work on you she can get ugly fast. You will find you cannot walk, talk, inhale, exhale or exist right she can get pretty ugly to you in a hurry even if she look like she fell from a center fold.
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Old 04-27-2015, 08:51 PM   #29
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This is a great forum and I should know, I belong to a few (too many). My weakness is for the unique, the forgotten, and the rescue of projects that are best left to mother nature. This is just a cool boat that I would like to give a new life but....makes little sense economically or time wise. Not timid after a daunting project like the worlds largest land yacht 4x4 saved from the grave a few years ago...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/4x4woodie/2700905093/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/4x4woodie/2816849042/

Thanks again for all your comments..
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Old 04-27-2015, 09:13 PM   #30
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I was contacted by a fellow here on Vancouver Island that wanted my opinion on a Manatee that was located in the LA area which I suspect is probably this boat. This was about 3 years ago. I got all the pictures and information he was able to get and had a real close look at it. He came to view my boat for comparison. We had a long discussion about it and from what I could see I told him that unless they were going to give him the boat for free, keep looking.


If it is the same boat, it looks and sounds like it has suffered years of neglect and probably needs more work than is obvious from the pictures and info I had available to me. So proceed carefully, I think all your repair estimations are way low.
Geesh. What a sad situation if true. Both Dave and Eric have good points....that is that you can afford to spend some money on these boats and still recover a good part of your investment, especially if you do the work yourself. It would be a shame to loose one. As far as I know, 98 out of the 99 built are still around. One burned in a marina fire several years ago. The hull is an uncompromised full displacement but is not built for blue water assumptions. I know a lot more about tearing apart these boats then I do behavoir in blue water so I'll yield to my more savvy cruising colleagues. However, I do think the Manatee's limitation in rough seas has a lot more to do with its high helm position (wear and tear on the pilot) than vessel capability.
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Old 04-27-2015, 10:53 PM   #31
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Geesh. What a sad situation if true. Both Dave and Eric have good points....that is that you can afford to spend some money on these boats and still recover a good part of your investment, especially if you do the work yourself. It would be a shame to loose one. As far as I know, 98 out of the 99 built are still around. One burned in a marina fire several years ago. The hull is an uncompromised full displacement but is not built for blue water assumptions. I know a lot more about tearing apart these boats then I do behavoir in blue water so I'll yield to my more savvy cruising colleagues. However, I do think the Manatee's limitation in rough seas has a lot more to do with its high helm position (wear and tear on the pilot) than vessel capability.
In all fairness to the boat, this guy was looking to import the boat into Canada, so 9.5% tax because it was built outside of the Nafta agreement, 7.5% Provincial Tax plus 5% Federal Tax. Plus he was going to have it shipped up here using one of those delivery ships. No idea what that would cost but not cheap I bet. So he was probably spending $30,000 just to get it into Canada. At the time the owner was looking to get $118,000 for the boat. If the price is right it could be worth it but go into it with both eyes open.

There are no problems that time and money can't solve.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:30 PM   #32
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In all fairness to the boat, this guy was looking to import the boat into Canada, so 9.5% tax because it was built outside of the Nafta agreement, 7.5% Provincial Tax plus 5% Federal Tax. Plus he was going to have it shipped up here using one of those delivery ships. No idea what that would cost but not cheap I bet. So he was probably spending $30,000 just to get it into Canada. At the time the owner was looking to get $118,000 for the boat. If the price is right it could be worth it but go into it with both eyes open.

There are no problems that time and money can't solve.
I think that's fairness to the owner, not the boat. None of that changes the condition of the boat or the fact it's basically been abandoned for many years.

Yes, there are no problems that time and money can't solve, but just from what we already know this one would require a lot of time and a lot of money. Right now it's not operable so even figuring out the full extent of issues is difficult. Honestly, the extent of rust we're being told about makes one even wonder if it's been sunk at some point. Regardless, You can't do a survey and sea trial at this point so you have to assume the worst on those things you can't check.

If I was making an offer on it, it would be subject to surveys and sea trial and it would also have a requirement the owner get it running so those could be done.
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Old 04-27-2015, 11:37 PM   #33
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I think that's fairness to the owner, not the boat. None of that changes the condition of the boat or the fact it's basically been abandoned for many years.

Yes, there are no problems that time and money can't solve, but just from what we already know this one would require a lot of time and a lot of money. Right now it's not operable so even figuring out the full extent of issues is difficult. Honestly, the extent of rust we're being told about makes one even wonder if it's been sunk at some point. Regardless, You can't do a survey and sea trial at this point so you have to assume the worst on those things you can't check.

If I was making an offer on it, it would be subject to surveys and sea trial and it would also have a requirement the owner get it running so those could be done.
That's kind of what I meant when I said to go into it with both eyes open.
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Old 04-28-2015, 09:32 AM   #34
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This is a great forum and I should know, I belong to a few (too many). My weakness is for the unique, the forgotten, and the rescue of projects that are best left to mother nature. This is just a cool boat that I would like to give a new life but....makes little sense economically or time wise. Not timid after a daunting project like the worlds largest land yacht 4x4 saved from the grave a few years ago...

https://www.flickr.com/photos/4x4woodie/2700905093/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/4x4woodie/2816849042/

Thanks again for all your comments..
Yeah....I think we've got a lot in common that way. Before the Manatee, I had many one-off truck restorations, specializing in IHC. I think one has to have a bit of this oddball passion to really appreciate the Manatee. Either that or an extreme case of practicality. Regardless, most Manatee owners are smiling from the treasure of comfort they enjoy behind the functional facade.
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:17 AM   #35
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Here is the Hatteras I referred to. You get the Krogen for $55,000 or the Hat for even as much as $115-120,00 you will be dollars ahead with the Hatteras is my guess. The Hatteras also has a cult following.
I have already done this trick you are looking at and took my beating. Buy a better boat or get the Krogen so very cheap you can weather the coming storm. Unless he gets lucky or spends some real money it will go cheap. My thought, based on other posters and my ass beating $40k would be high. The mere thought of cored hull (which I did not know) makes my blood run cold.

If you determine to go through with this, spend the cash for a mechanical and overall out of the water survey. Find out about your surveyors before selection. You REALLY need to know what all is wrong. There will be enough unanticipated surprises even with the mother of all surveys.

One more thing stir in 5gallons of aggravation, lost of your time to the mix.

1981 Hatteras LRC MK II Power Boat For Sale - www.yachtworld.com
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Old 04-28-2015, 11:38 AM   #36
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The mere thought of cored hull (which I did not know) makes my blood run cold.
That's the second reference to the Krogen fully cored hull with a head dramatically beating itself against a brick wall. Makes me curious, what's the issue. Most if not all Krogens have fully cored hulls and I can't remember ever hearing of any negative issue related to this. Mine obviously is cored and I love it, even with our cold water temperatures I can lay down in my engine space and be warm enough to fall asleep. My boat is as strong and seaworthy as any other boat in it's size class. So what am I missing here?
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:02 PM   #37
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When a leak takes place in a cored hull, ESPECIALLY BALSA the water just travels to the low point, and especially on cored decks that low point changes. Then there is the condensation within after water makes its way in. Can be a real, expensive, labor intensive mess.

We are not discussing a well kept, regularly dived and hauled out boat. I assume, from your postings your boat fits into that catagory. This is a neglected boat, perhaps with a saturated cored hull. Thru hulls not serviced or inspected, electrolysis could be a factor.

Nothing is wrong with a cored hull or decks for that matter but special care must be taken when drilling and so fourth. In fact for livability, sound dreading and insulation they are great, not to mention strength vs weight. When they go south though, look out.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:24 PM   #38
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When a leak takes place in a cored hull, ESPECIALLY BALSA the water just travels to the low point, and especially on cored decks that low point changes. Then there is the condensation within after water makes its way in. Can be a real, expensive, labor intensive mess.

We are not discussing a well kept, regularly dived and hauled out boat. I assume, from your postings your boat fits into that catagory. This is a neglected boat, perhaps with a saturated cored hull. Thru hulls not serviced or inspected, electrolysis could be a factor.

Nothing is wrong with a cored hull or decks for that matter but special care must be taken when drilling and so fourth. In fact for livability, sound dreading and insulation they are great, not to mention strength vs weight. When they go south though, look out.
I see. I guess I was just being defensive because the comments seemed to infer that a fully cored hull is a stupid idea. You see I also have a Volvo engine so I'm a little sensitive. Thank goodness I got rid of my Bruce anchor.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:49 PM   #39
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Yeah....I think we've got a lot in common that way. Before the Manatee, I had many one-off truck restorations, specializing in IHC. I think one has to have a bit of this oddball passion to really appreciate the Manatee. Either that or an extreme case of practicality. Regardless, most Manatee owners are smiling from the treasure of comfort they enjoy behind the functional facade.
That's small world interesting/funny. I have owned six woodie Binders....about 20% of the known survivors. If you google "4x4 woodie" you should get my old flicker site with full restoration pics. Only a IHC guy will get it.
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Old 04-28-2015, 12:55 PM   #40
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Update...The owner has offered to get it cleaned and running in our discussions but I think his path of least resistance is to let it sit. We initiated the "is it for sale" inquiry so motivation/price makes me not optimistic that this will lead to anything.

The deal breaker for me is the engine has sat for six years. My mechanic (years of experience with boats) has said there's a 90% chance the engine needs to be rebuilt. Loosely..."salt air gets into the engine thru the intake, exhaust and crankcase breather....it circulates thoughout the engine thru open valves, oil passageways, valve covers, and crankcase and every surface that once was oiled goes dry and rust starts. This includes the cyl walls, piston rings, rockers and valve train, etc. If the engine isnt already frozen, any attempt to start it will most likely score the cyl walls, break rings after a few hours running, and distribute rust debri throughout. A mere filter change does little".

To his credit, the owner said the boat was "pickled" properly so maybe all this was dealt with.

I am sure we will find an alternative boat that fits our needs (an aft deck big enough for 8 man poker and wife friendly aesthetics). The Hatteras is very cool but the design doesn't work for us. Its a big harbor full of options.
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