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Old 07-19-2012, 10:33 AM   #21
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You have to know your vessel's limits. Case in point, the ex-Washington State Ferry that operated on Puget Sound for 20 years. Then it ended up in service in the Indian Ocaen off Tanzania, where it just flipped in heavy winds, killing 31 (so far - there are another 100 passengers still missing):
Death toll rises to 31 in Tanzania ferry accident | Nation & World | The Seattle Times
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:42 AM   #22
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You have to know your vessel's limits. Case in point, the ex-Washington State Ferry that operated on Puget Sound for 20 years. Then it ended up in service in the Indian Ocaen off Tanzania, where it just flipped in heavy winds, killing 31 (so far - there are another 100 passengers still missing):
Death toll rises to 31 in Tanzania ferry accident | Nation & World | The Seattle Times
And probably more importantly than the vessel's...your own limits.

There are many examples of captains dealing with conditions with lesser boats and treating the voyage just like any other when captains of more capable ships are lost.

I run breaking inlets all the time...but I don't recommend that the average weekend captain do it...even in better suited craft.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:43 AM   #23
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I don't know where, when, how or why a lot of you guys cruise but I have been boating/professional mariner a long time and have friends that have cruised around the world many times and/or lots of blue water experience. Some of you make going out in the ocean as a death sentence. There's a huge difference in a hundred mile overnighter and an ocean crossing. You can get to a lot of cruising grounds with only or less than 100 miles of blue water to cross.

I have NEVER had a wave sweep the deck on a recreational cruise....check the weather reports. There's no such thing as "unexpected storms" and even "pop up thunderstorms" are reasonably predictable.

15 knots of wind too much for a Manatee....YA GOTTA BE KIDDING ME .....then it would be too much for most of our boats...which it's ...NOT....
Great post, and 100% correct!

Coastal cruising, even a very long coastal cruise is really a series of <=100 NM trips. Check the weather and make a prudent go/no go decision based on that.

Every single time my boat leaves the dock we're in the open ocean. 1 mile, or 30 miles from shore is the exact same conditions. 30 miles or 3,000 miles is the exact same distance since along a coast you're ducking into protected anchorages most every evening.

And...

15 knot winds are really just a little breeze, force 4. 6' swells max and those would be long duration swells at that. Piece of cake for any of the Bayliner boats I've owned from 24-47'.
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Old 07-19-2012, 06:13 PM   #24
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Manatee and the walk around

All boats are different just like us on this forum. On our list of features we wanted in a boat, was that is was a WIDE BODY. That walk around may be required in locks, but like anything there is a work around. I love the larger salon and galley everyday that we have on our Vantare, and being live aboards, I mean everyday.

Part of over coming the limited side access is planning, having lines pre-set and the other advanage I have is my wife would rather sit at the helm then run the lines.

So in most cases, she will drive into the slip or dock and hold the boat, while I step off and tie the rear cleat. Then I can walk forward and retrieve the preset lines amid ship and on the bow. This is a team effort and we knew that going in. If I wanted to single hand a boat, I definely would have bought a different boat.

Like others have said, you need to know your limitations. Plan your trip, check the weather and throw the schedule out the window. Life is to short to be out in water you shouldn't be in. Yes we will all be caught in places we shouldn't be, but with today's electronics and communications, there is no real reason to put your life in danger to boat. Planning, training and knowing your limitations, should make for many good crising days ahead.
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Old 07-19-2012, 11:25 PM   #25
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15 knots of wind too much for a Manatee....YA GOTTA BE KIDDING ME .....then it would be too much for most of our boats...which it's ...NOT....
Perhaps I should have elaborated. 15 knots is OK inshore. Take your boat or any boat through an inlet, or maybe through St. Andrews Sound on the ICW with a stiff 15 knot wind from the NE, and you will hate your life. Sorry for the generalization.
As far as being ugly, OK -- I like all boats. The Manatee doesn't apeal to me personally. If I want more room to move about, then that will be what I'll get. I like that aspect. But I won't take too many pictures of it and send to my friends saying "look at my lovely boat." Just one man's opinion.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:12 AM   #26
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Perhaps I should have elaborated. 15 knots is OK inshore. Take your boat or any boat through an inlet, or maybe through St. Andrews Sound on the ICW with a stiff 15 knot wind from the NE, and you will hate your life. Sorry for the generalization....
Don't see how one can make such a conclusion without direct knowledge. If true, the boat would be "incompetent" which I doubt.

But then, some are fearful when a boat kicks up a spray (common occurence here).

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Old 07-20-2012, 02:17 AM   #27
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As far as being ugly, OK -- I like all boats. The Manatee doesn't apeal to me personally. If I want more room to move about, then that will be what I'll get. I like that aspect. But I won't take too many pictures of it and send to my friends saying "look at my lovely boat." Just one man's opinion.
I guess it's about just how politically correct and nicey-nice is one willing to be? I'm not much for saying something's great or even okay if I think it sucks. There is no requirement for anyone else to agree, just as there is no requirement that I have to pretend to like something when I don't.

I don't like all boats. In fact I like very few of them. And I happen to agree with Egregious' initial assessment of the Manatee's exterior aesthetics. Doesn't mean it's a bad boat. Doesn't mean it's not a great boat. Doesn't mean anything, really. It just conveys what I happen to like or not like in a boat.

Opinions are worth exactly what you pay for them.
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Old 07-20-2012, 02:23 AM   #28
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The Manatee doesn't apeal to me personally. If I want more room to move about, then that will be what I'll get. I like that aspect. But I won't take too many pictures of it and send to my friends saying "look at my lovely boat." Just one man's opinion.
Don't think the Coot is a "James Bond heart throb" either, unless one considers Ernest Borgnine was a lady's definition thereof. Some/most(?) of us rank other qualities more highly although I'd draw the line at repulsive.

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Old 07-20-2012, 03:43 AM   #29
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In my opinion, the Krogen Manatee is the most appropriately named recreational vessel ever built.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:55 AM   #30
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In my opinion, the Krogen Manatee is the most appropriately named recreational vessel ever built.
nicely put..
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Old 07-20-2012, 07:34 AM   #31
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In my opinion, the Krogen Manatee is the most appropriately named recreational vessel ever built.

Made me laugh!
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:10 PM   #32
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Barefootshoes, we've owned our Manatee for three years now and I can honestly say that in it's size class there isn't another boat that would even interest me now.

We've been out in some rough water such as 4 to 5 foot head seas and up to 10 foot stern seas and not once was I concerned about stability. Anything over 3 feet to the beam is going to shake you up, but having said that, I've also been out in a Nordic Tug, a 42 Krogen and a Grand Banks and didn't find either of those boats to be any more comfortable, but they do have the advantage (in beam seas) of a lower helm station. As far as the ride in the cabin area, I haven't found any significant difference.

Manatees seem to be mostly found in Florida and area, I only know of 3 others in my area, one of them has been to Alaska twice and around Vancouver Island, as has mine. This probably says more about the skipper than the boat. These trips are often made in smaller and less suitable boats without trouble, but I'm willing to bet that any boat/owner on this forum could find themselves in a lot of trouble on either of these trips if not using good seamanship. Personally, I would have no reservations about taking our boat anywhere we wanted to go. We range from the Southern Gulf Islands to Desolation Sound and have never been afraid to move from place to place.

Marin points to the lack of side decks as a disadvantage in docking situations, but in my opinion there is no lack of side decks at all, I have 360 access from the upper deck, this is the easiest boat to put at the dock I've ever operated. I just pull up to the dock, my wife steps off and onto the dock, secures the stern line while I keep control of the bow, when she's ready I hand her the bow line. I've even done it by myself a few times just using a single line fastened at the center cleat, have to move fast though. When it's time to set the anchor or grab a buoy, I'm just a few steps away, I can do it all myself, easily.

From an operators perspective you have a clear 360 viewing area, which in my case is fully enclosed and heated, lots of room for electronics that can be arranged without looking cluttered up. I'm out of the sun in the summer and warm and dry in the winter.

The living quarters are where the Manatee really shines, there just simply is no other boat in it's size class that could beat the Manatee in comfort, I've been on many boats at boat shows and still have not found one that compares in interior space or practical design. Krogen did a wonderful job of building the boats using teakwood for the walls with a fibreglass ceiling with teak trim. Access to the engine and machinery spaces is not that difficult.

Ugly, well to each his own. I admit I wasn't too enthused with it's awkward looking appearance at first, but my wife liked it so much we bought it. Since then it has grown on me and I now see it a a beautiful thing, and I'm not alone, we have many people come to us and comment on it.

And a 15 knot wind is too much for a Manatee, come on. Mine must be exceptional, I've been out in 30-35 knots, and no grey hair.

So to sum it up, we love this boat. It handles well in all conditions, I wouldn't want to be out in any weather heavier than described above anyway and I have no fear of any destination on the west coast that might interest me. It docks and anchors easy and has lots of open area on the upper deck. The back porch on the lower deck is admired by anyone who has stopped to talk and have a look. It's quiet, fuel efficient, holds 290 gallons of fuel and 300 gallons of water. What more could you want in a 36 foot boat.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:31 PM   #33
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What more could you want in a 36 foot boat.
For it to look like a boat.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

The lack of a walkaround main deck is a showstopper for us no matter what brand the boat is or how nice its aesthetics are. Of course it's possible to make almost any configuration work no matter how awkward or ill-concieved it may be.

But a full main deck is great in more ways than just docking. In fact it's not all that essential for docking at all as we don't get off the middle of the boat to do that. But for everything else from launching the dinghies to rafting to coming and going from the boat once it is docked to guests moving from the inside out to the fore or aft decks, to getting off a dock in adverse winds or currents to taking pictures and video, to a place the dog likes to run around on.... the list of benefits of a walkaround deck for us goes on and on.

It's personal preference, of course, but having examined a Manatee close-up (there's one in our marina) I cannot find a single feature other than the interior volume that would meet our requirements for a boat.

I have no reason to question the capabilities of the Manatee to handle the kind of cruising waters we have here. But were we to get a Manatee for some reason, after having the boat we have now, being on other boats of similar, full walkaround deck configuration, and taking a good look at the Manatee here, I have no doubt our experience with it would be an endless string of "I wish this boat had...." and "I wish we could do....."

It's all in what a person likes and doesn't like, and what works for one person may not work at all for the next one.
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Old 07-20-2012, 04:56 PM   #34
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I have walk around side decks and really don't see the need for them. One must have a quick way to get from the helm to the float usually via the aft deck. If w 2 people just anyplace midships to aft w good access to the float is all that's needed. Just get a midships line fast and do the rest while sucking on a beer. Just because you use your side decks Marin dosn't mean you'd miss them if they were suddenly gone. And remember .... The Manatee is a Krogen.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:09 PM   #35
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I have walk around side decks and really don't see the need for them.

You're exactly right, all that walk around space takes away from the interior of the boat (and it does begin to look like a boat after some time), for my money, I'll take interior space. The only disadvantage I've found to the Manatee so far is access to the dinghy could be easier. I really wanted to get a kayak but feel it's not manageable without getting wet.
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Old 07-20-2012, 05:30 PM   #36
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If you like the Manatee, go for it a just realize what limitations it may have. I really thought the lack of a walkaround deck was going to be a problem when we purchased our Hatteras LRC 12 years ago but my wife liked the full beam interior since we were going to be living aboard. After 10 years of long distance coastal cruising I find the lack of the walkaround to be a non issue. In fact it was less of an issue than we had with our previous boat (an aft cabin Nova / Golden Star) because you didn't have to climb down a straight ladder to the swim platform in order to tie up. Fenders can be easily tied to the upper deck rail. The biggest issue is seaworthiness although a 15 knot wind is barely a slight breeze in the San Francisco area.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:33 PM   #37
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I wonder if there is some significance that the people who most vehemently defend the lack of a full walkaround deck don't have one?

I love a walkaround deck. For one thing, it helps make a boat look like what I think a boat should look like. Everyone has different reasons for getting into boating For me a big, big part of it is being out on a "proper" boat. Being out on the water is great. Being out on a boat that looks like I think a boat should look is even greater.

I could drive a Prius. They're certainly affordable and the car makes all sorts of sense. But aesthetically I think they absolutely suck. I would be embarrased to be seen driving one because it would be a statement that I have a horrible (by my standards) sense of aesthetics and design. So I don't drive one because I would not be happy driving it no matter how clever the technology.

I feel exactly the same about the Manatee. I simply would not enjoy driving a boat that by my standards is so ugly and un-boatlike. I don't care if it has a big wide living room, I don't care about all the house-like amenities. That's not why I like boats or boating. I have all that stuff in my house.. I am more than willing to put up with smaller cabins and fewer amenities in exchange for being out on the water in what I deem to be a "proper" boat. Proper boats by my definition don't look like stacked-to-the-sky Crowley barges headed for the North Slope.

As for the side decks, sure we could operate the boat without them. But I like stepping outside when my wife is driving and leaning on the side rail or up against the side of the cabin and looking at the view and the water going by. I like being able to simply walk to the aft or foredeck to do the same thing. I don't want to go through a door and up some stairs and across another deck and then down some stairs just to get to the other end of the boat.

But aesthetcs play a huge role in what my wife and I enjoy about boats. And we're not going to sacrifice that just so we can get a sofa into the cabin. As to my definition of a proper boat, at the top end of the size chart is the USS Missouri and her sisters. At the bottom of the chart is Carey's lobsterboat Happy Destiny. In between there are a few boats that we like and a hell of a lot of boats we don't like. And the Manatee pretty much tops the latter list when it comes to production boats.

Seaworthy? Absolutely. As someone said previously, seaworthiness is probaby more about who's running the boat than who made it. But it's obvious from the posts here that Manatee owners take their boats everywhere everyone else with a coastal cruiser takes theirs. Practical? Absolutely, just like a Prius. Good use of interior space? Absolutely. You want a floating house, this is the way to do it. A boat we would ever consider buying? Not in a million years.
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Old 07-20-2012, 06:47 PM   #38
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... I like stepping outside when my wife is driving and leaning on the side rail or up against the side of the cabin and looking at the view and the water going by. I like being able to simply walk to the aft or foredeck to do the same thing. I don't want to go through a door and up some stairs and across another deck and then down some stairs just to get to the other end of the boat. ...


One step out of the pilothouse and I'm leaning on the rail looking at the water going by.

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Old 07-20-2012, 07:02 PM   #39
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I'm not sure I was defending not having a full walk around deck. I've owned both and, for me at least, I found that not having the full walk around is no big deal. I do have a partial walk around deck and would probably find that not being able to walk out the pilot house or down a few step from the fly fridge and go forward would be less than optimal.
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Old 07-20-2012, 10:17 PM   #40
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This walk around deck thing sure brings up some strong emotions.

I wonder if the proponents of a full walk around deck do so to justify their smaller salons?

This is too funny and each to his own.

Personally I find the raised pilothouse boats to look more "boatish" than other designs with or without a walk around side deck.

I also see great asthetic appeal in the manatee and their larger cousins the greatharbors, and the florida bay coasters. That appeal isn't in a traditional salty way, it is in a great functionality way.

The way I look at it is that you dock a boat what, once every few days. That docking experience is a 5 minute block of time.

The rest of the time you're living in the boat, and for us at least the extra 3' width of our salon really comes in handy. And yes, for 5 minutes every couple of days we would like side decks.
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