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Old 04-03-2013, 09:56 AM   #1
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Kadey Krogen 42 Deck Thickness

Thanks again to those who responded to my question pertaing to the KK42 Hull thickness. I require similar information on the thickness of the top layer of fiberglass on the side decks and the fore deck.

A vessel I am currently examining has had the fuel tanks replaced and the teaks removed from the fore and side decks. This reveals the top fiberglass deck. The screw holes were drilled out, filled with epoxy and an awl grip surface was put on. The seller indicates that the "wood turnings" from the drilling of the holes were dry. Although the deck looks good and feels strong to me, my surveyor maintains that questions remain about the integrity of the plywood core below. Certainly there are "voids" evident from sounding the decks.

How thick is the top fiberglass layer? How much strength did the teak deck contribute? Is the top layer of fiberglass of sufficient strength for the future "integrity" of the deck.

Jim
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Old 04-03-2013, 10:29 AM   #2
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Comments:
  1. You can drill out the suspect areas, you pay if OK and owner pays if not OK
  2. Do you not trust your surveyor?
  3. You seem fixated on problematic vessels, there are lots of good ones out there if you are patient.
  4. Buying a knowingly bad vessel will lead to heartache unless you bought it knowing you will be fixing up more than your initial surveys indicated
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Old 04-03-2013, 11:26 AM   #3
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I'm not "fixed" on buying a problematic vessel at all. I'm just trying to gather all the information I can prior to rejecting or alternatively completing the offer. The information I want right now is as asked: What is the thickness of the fiberglass deck layer that has been revealed when the teaks were removed?

All buyers operate with (or should) an upper limit as to what we can afford. If one wants a raised-pilot-house and, preferrably a KK42, one wants the best one they can afford, reserving some funds for repairs if necessary. All used boats come with issues and a buyer weighs those issues and whether they are deal breakers or not. Given one has invested in the process, one doesn't want to reject something out of hand and move to the next one and go through the process all over again. So...you collect all the information you can, weigh the pros and cons and make the best decision you can, preferrably with one's head and not one's heart at this stage.

BTW, the surveyor thinks I should consider a newer boat and considerably outside my price range, and that is not an option. And a cheaper or lesser or a project boat would not be satisfactory for our situation.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:40 PM   #4
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The information I want right now is as asked: What is the thickness of the fiberglass deck layer that has been revealed when the teaks were removed? Al.
The KK owner's forum is a great place to get specific information, maybe not so TF. Two on here own 42s, Keith and Larry on Hobo. You may want to go to them direct, they are very smart guys.
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Old 04-03-2013, 12:46 PM   #5
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Yes I am also on that forum however I find it somewhat "kludgey" to navigate around as they have moved it to Yahoo Groups.

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Old 04-03-2013, 01:23 PM   #6
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The decks were designed to be used as fiberglass decks. The teak was an additional cost option (can you believe?) and of course added some strength, but they were designed to be used without the teak.
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Old 04-03-2013, 01:27 PM   #7
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Let's see if this posts...these are the engineering drawings of the deck structure. Well, guess not. It's about a 5 meg .pdf. I have this and all the other engineering drawings for the Krogen 42 if anyone wants them e-mailed. In the meantime, here's a snip that should answer your question.
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:41 PM   #8
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Keith thanks so much. Very helpful. I just spent some time on the phone with Krogen in Florida and they were very helpful as well.

Jim
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Old 04-03-2013, 04:46 PM   #9
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I am afraid I would have to question your surveyor's conclusion. From Keith's posting, it is pretty obvious that the decks are around 1" or even 1 1/4 ", with a 5/8 balsa core and three laminate layers on each side. What I would question is his original assertion that there is plywood in the decks and that there are voids determined just from sounding with a hammer. Not the most reliable means of making a determination. If he is not capable, a good surveyor with a moisture meter might give you a better reading. It does not sound from your description that there are any soft spots. Not hard too for a surveyor to find out that Krogen has always used either balsa or Divinycel core on the topsides, never plywood. Unless there are some obvious areas of water ingress, I would not be too worried about the decks. If his basis for worry is just that the screw holes were filled and epoxied and then covered, I would ask the same question "Are there any areas of obvious water ingress?"
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Old 04-03-2013, 05:53 PM   #10
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Thanks THD: the Balsa core was what was used on the later model KK42's. I understand from Krogen for that for vessels in the mid to later 80s, while the boat decks had a balsa core models the lower decks had a plywood core.

At this time, the question of moisture in the core remains unanswered unless you check the core with destructive sampling. It is my understanding that the use of Moisture meters is somewhat controversial and uncertain and at the very lease requires calibration that might be beyond the scope of some surveyors.
http://www.yachtsurvey.com/moisture_meters.htm
http://www.pcmarinesurveys.com/Moist...0mythology.htm

Jim
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Old 04-04-2013, 05:53 AM   #11
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"Although the deck looks good and feels strong to me, my surveyor maintains that questions remain about the integrity of the plywood core below."

"The decks were designed to be used as fiberglass decks. The teak was an additional cost option (can you believe?) and of course added some strength, but they were designed to be used without the teak.


IF the deck material is plywood (with the usual GRP paint job) it is a plywood deck and must be inspected and maintained as a ply deck.

The thin layer of GRP in no way makes it a "cored deck".Though the Chinese do call it a "composite deck".

On a cored deck the integrity of the laminate to the core is almost 100% of the decks strength.

A cored deck uses the thin exterior and required interior layup to create an I beam of FRP on the outside and foan (best) or balsa as the center of the I beam.

This is NOT how a ply deck with a slather of GRP functions.

On a plywood deck the GRP is simply to keep the water out , they frequently loose the attachment to the ply with no harm , as long as the layer remains water tight.

The construction below for the deck attachments to the hull follow wooden boat standards for the Ply and GRP construction standards for the GRP.
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Old 04-04-2013, 10:04 PM   #12
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The date on that drawing is 10/27/83. Here is another snip...it appears the very forward deck IS plywood, right around the windlass. I'd be happy to mail this or any of the other drawings to anyone interested.
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Old 06-15-2016, 11:58 AM   #13
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Hi Keith

I was going thru some postings and came across your offer to email KK42 drawings.

If you still have them, I would love a copy. I'm in Australia, and recently bought a 1991 KK42WB.

Thanks - Gary

gjsteele58@gmail.com
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Old 06-15-2016, 12:23 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreamsailor2 View Post
Hi Keith

I was going thru some postings and came across your offer to email KK42 drawings.

If you still have them, I would love a copy. I'm in Australia, and recently bought a 1991 KK42WB.

Thanks - Gary

gjsteele58@gmail.com
If I remember correctly, Keith passed away. You might want to contact Kadey Krogen directly and ask if they still have the drawings for the KK42.
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