Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 01-14-2019, 09:55 PM   #1
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,572
Gyro Gale Stabilized KK Manatee

Since we all know only Manatee owners are reading this, it’s probably safe to share that the bottom shape, shallow draft and initial stability of the Krogen Manatee have made the boat a difficult candidate for installation of fin type stabilizers. There have only been two applications that I know of, one conventional (hydraulically-actuated) set on the recently sold hull #99, and one (pneumatically-actuated) set on hull #71, “Mango Mama”. Both applications were reputed to be successful and reliable, but when I got aboard Mango Mama a couple of years ago, I was particularly impressed with the quickness of the Gyro Gale pneumatic fins. Since then, Gyro Gale has been tuning the system to maximize performance and I think they may have it down pretty good. His system cost was a lot, lot cheaper than the hydraulic units I priced at the time.

Here is the link to the video on YouTube:

https://youtu.be/-lqpxWk_N4w
__________________
Advertisement

__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-14-2019, 11:37 PM   #2
Guru
 
HiDHo's Avatar
 
City: Scottsboro, Al.
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Hi-D-Ho
Vessel Model: 1987 Krogen Manatee
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 932
I like the hydro-foils better Larry.
__________________

HiDHo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 02:59 AM   #3
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,638
I recently looked at a boat that had a gyro gale setup. A 5 HP electric motor and air cooled compressor were required to provide motive power which in turn required genset operation. After looking at this install, I much prefer a PTO hydraulic stabilizer setup.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 06:43 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
timb's Avatar
 
City: Oriental N.C.
Country: usa
Vessel Name: true heading
Vessel Model: marine trader 38 dc
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 310
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
Since we all know only Manatee owners are reading this, i

https://youtu.be/-lqpxWk_N4w
i'm reading it the Manatee next to me is for sale.
timb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 08:54 AM   #5
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,572
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
I recently looked at a boat that had a gyro gale setup. A 5 HP electric motor and air cooled compressor were required to provide motive power which in turn required genset operation. After looking at this install, I much prefer a PTO hydraulic stabilizer setup.
Yes, I saw that setup as well, but Mango Mama has a belt driven compressor off the main, originally on the standard equipped Volvo 100, but now refitted with a Yanmar 140. I’ll try to get a photo of the unit this afternoon.
__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 09:01 AM   #6
TF Site Team
 
Pack Mule's Avatar
 
City: Paris,TN
Country: USA
Vessel Name: William
Vessel Model: Outer reef 32
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 3,212
Larry, not that it matters but can the hyd fins be driven off of the generator? I know some drive their hyd windlass off generator.
__________________
Marty
Pack Mule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 09:24 AM   #7
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by healhustler View Post
Yes, I saw that setup as well, but Mango Mama has a belt driven compressor off the main, originally on the standard equipped Volvo 100, but now refitted with a Yanmar 140. I’ll try to get a photo of the unit this afternoon.
Larry
As, best I understand the physical size of a larger system's compressor and heat exchanger overwhelm ER space at the head of an engine. The unit I saw was quite large, well designed but it would only fit in the voluminous ER I examined and required a much larger cooling fan setup.

Which is one of reasons that hydraulic drive units via a small PTO are all so common - space. Hydraulic drive PTOs have been around for a very long time in non marine industries and the move to powering stabilizers was and is straightforward. For many, a PTO on a genset is used for "0" speed stabilizer applications.

I've not done the math for power needs of a compressor powered stabilizer setup vs hydraulic. I would guess it would favor hydraulics about 1/2 - 2/3 the energy needed vs air based upon non marine application conversions I've been involved with.

Lastly, keeping the hydraulic oil cool neatly lends itself to the already onboard RW flow for wet exhaust setups.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 09:35 AM   #8
Guru
 
Fletcher500's Avatar
 
City: So-Cal
Country: USA
Vessel Model: Helmsman 43 PH
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 981
Do you have a link to the product?

I don’t anything about this, so if it is working for people, great.

There is a reason why industry use fluids (non compressible) to move and actuate larger loads, as opposed to pneumatics.
Fletcher500 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 09:49 AM   #9
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,638
fletcher
Better to google gyro gale stabilizers and up will come all sorts of interesting stuff, or so I found a few months ago. GG's website itself is the normal self promo. The first air actuated stabilizer I saw was on a mid 70s DeFever. A fascinating setup with the unit itself housed in a water tight small compartment.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 11:46 AM   #10
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,327
A few nice things about pneumatic systems are that you can combine sources (compressor mounted on Engine + compressor mounted on genset) all could charge a tank to be used by the stabilizers. Second is the fact that air is compressible. They act like springs under shock loads compared to the rigidity of hydraulic fins. According to their guy at the boat shows, you can mount several sets on larger boats and even stabilize some of the pitching forces too.
And, when you blow an air-line, you don't have a massive cleanup problem, compared with a hydraulic line spewing oil everywhere in a fine mist.
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 12:09 PM   #11
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,638
I'll keep an eye out for this newly described issue, shock loading of fins. And likewise watch out for the blown hydraulic lines. All is good after 15 years of 100% trouble free service for the Wesmars on our vessel.

What kind of thrusters do you have Stubones99?
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 12:17 PM   #12
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,327
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
I'll keep an eye out for this newly described issue, shock loading of fins. And likewise watch out for the blown hydraulic lines. All is good after 15 years of 100% trouble free service for the Wesmars on our vessel.

What kind of thrusters do you have Stubones99?
Last boat had twins and didn't need thrusters.
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 12:34 PM   #13
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Country: usa
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 7,638
Quote:
Originally Posted by stubones99 View Post
Last boat had twins and didn't need thrusters.
Thanks. The reason I asked was the shock loading on thrusters has at times been an issue dependent upon the quality of the install. Never heard of shock loading on standard design hydraulic thrusters causing issues. Mine move imperceptibly, maybe 1 to 1 1/2 inches
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 12:45 PM   #14
Guru
 
City: Melbourne, FL
Country: USA
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,327
The point I was trying to make was that since hydraulic oil is not compressible, any torque put on the fins has to go to the hull mountings, or the water flows from the high-pressure side around to the low-pressure side of the fin.
With air, it would push back but would give somewhat like a pneumatic spring. It would allow roll in extreme conditions but stress the hull mountings less.

If they require that much air (something I've not studied) where does it bleed off without making a significant racket? I've used pneumatics and hydraulics in other jobs and know both technologies. Air is always less precise, compared to hydraulics.
stubones99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2019, 09:40 PM   #15
Guru
 
healhustler's Avatar
 
City: Longboat Key, FL
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Bucky
Vessel Model: Krogen Manatee 36 North Sea
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,572
Here’s a shot taken above the main engine on Mango Mama. Compressor (circled in red) is belt driven off the crank pulley, and mounted to a heavy plate across the stringers. Engine is really smooth, no noticeable vibration from compressor. I didn’t notice any noise from air cylinder actuation, but I also didn’t stand over the machinery space.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	27E58470-C597-4159-887A-C586B79E29AB.jpg
Views:	34
Size:	144.2 KB
ID:	84291  
__________________

__________________
Larry

"When life gets hard, eat marshmallows”.
healhustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:34 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012