Boarding Door

[Ventana]

We are prepping to move aboard our KK42 by the end of the month, and I'm finding that our 6 year old daughter has a very hard time getting on and off the boat. I will probably back the boat in to the slip so we can use the swim step and aft door for now. When we are away from our marina, backing in will not always be possible, and isn't much fun regardless. Wondering if anyone has done, or even seen, a modification to cut a boarding door into the midship section of the bulwarks? I did a bunch of searching and came up with similar questions but no evidence that someone has actually done this. The half door on the KK44 doesn't seem like it would really help, so I'm thinking of cutting out a section all the way to the deck.
I would love to learn from someone elses success or mistakes if possible.

 

[aevdg]

My husband does not recommend that. We have a Kadey krogen as well, and certainly understand what the problem is. He will go into more detail.

 

[ktdtx]

I looked into it- not for a KK- and was surprised (but less so after thinking of all involved) at the estimates of $6,000 to $9,000 and this was 2 years ago.

 

[RT Firefly]

Greetings,
Mr. S What a great life for a 6 year old! Rest assured, she will grow but may need help for a while. Perhaps a rope swing or...

 

[Codger2]

...... and I'm finding that our 6 year old daughter has a very hard time getting on and off the boat......... Wondering if anyone has done, or even seen a modification to cut a boarding door into the midship section of the bulwarks? ........ so I'm thinking of cutting out a section all the way to the deck.

I can relate to your concern as when we decided on our 42' Ocean Alexander such thoughts were on our minds. ( The owners are 71 & 77 )

Since buying the boat, the starboard side door is one of the things we like the most. Easy access from the finger docks at our slip, using the shore boats at Catalina Island, provisioning & much more. IMHO you can't beat a side door!

 

[Ventana]

I looked into it- not for a KK- and was surprised (but less so after thinking of all involved) at the estimates of $6,000 to $9,000 and this was 2 years ago.

I would do it myself, so I'm not as concerned on cost.

 

[Ventana]

I can relate to your concern as when we decided on our 42' Ocean Alexander such thoughts were on our minds. ( The owners are 71 & 77 )

Since buying the boat, the starboard side door is one of the things we like the most. Easy access from the finger docks at our slip, using the shore boats at Catalina Island, provisioning & much more. IMHO you can't beat a side door!

Very similar to what I was thinking, only further forward. It looks like I would have enough room between the brace going up to the upper deck and the brackets for our paravanes.


I will interested to see what aevdg has to say against the idea.

 

[aevdg]

It isn't me - it's my husband who will be giving you a dissertation on why this is not a good idea (although I certainly understand why you would want to--remember we have a KK42 too) and I am sure it will be a long and detailed dissertation. Don't tell him I said that.

 

[Lou_tribal]

Greetings,
Mr. S What a great life for a 6 year old! Rest assured, she will grow but may need help for a while. Perhaps a rope swing or...

And by the time she grows and is able to get aboard maybe you will need help from her to get yourself aboard Of course I am joking but what about simply keeping a foldable step ladder aboard to help the little angel and later on her father or anybody else

L

 

[Ventana]

And by the time she grows and is able to get aboard maybe you will need help from her to get yourself aboard Of course I am joking but what about simply keeping a foldable step ladder aboard to help the little angel and later on her father or anybody else

L

I have my days when I could probably use help now.
My understanding is it is a common problem for Krogen owners, so I was surprised that I couldn't find any mention of someone trying the door idea. High bulwarks mean there is a big step from the dock to the rail, and another from the rail to the deck. This will only get worse with snow and ice. Short step ladders on both sides would probably work but blocks side deck access. I just want a usable, somewhat elegant solution so she (or I) doesn't go in the water or get pinned between the boat and the dock.

 

[Ventana]

It isn't me - it's my husband who will be giving you a dissertation on why this is not a good idea (although I certainly understand why you would want to--remember we have a KK42 too) and I am sure it will be a long and detailed dissertation. Don't tell him I said that.

Got it. My curiosity is piqued.

 

[av8r]

Do it, you will be very happy with them. Our 40’ OA Europa has doors very similar to Codger’s but about 10’ fwd of the transom. They are wonderful for those with bad backs, bad knees, bad hips, or age-impaired in either way. Our 3 yo granddaughter just steps on while the rest of us hobble behind. We also board the dinghy and the kayak from the side doors.

 

[tozz]

I would do it myself, so I'm not as concerned on cost.

Short of any technical showstopper I would too. We live aboard and have side doors and added marquipt sea stairs. It's so nice to just walk in and out especially walking the dog, taking out trash, or boarding with groceries etc.

 

[koliver]

A good friend whose wife has MS had that modification done to both sides of their Westbay Sonship with very good results. No idea what it cost.

 

[boomerang]

My first concern would be compromising the structural integrity. Cost would be secondary.

 

[Larry M]

There are construction plans available either through Krogen or another member that should be a help. If you can wait, I’ll look next month when I visit our storage locker.

 

[healhustler]

Interesting proposal. Given the flexion at the cap rail of 42’s, it probably would require some beefy framing and a very tight fitting door to keep the hull moving as designed. I did swinging doors on the transom of our Manatee, but the original design had a tailgate that was already cut to the deck level. Still, getting the new cut doors to spread a wave impact load through the entire transom required a somewhat helical cut combined with specific bracing. Cutting a deeper than designed void in the bullworks of a 42’ would hardly have an effect at rest or calm seas, thanks to its high-lifting stern. but when underway in challenging seas, I think the cut & door would need to both flex and absorb shock very close to the original design. Just an opinion. Please keep us updated on this very interesting project.

 

[Ventana]

There are construction plans available either through Krogen or another member that should be a help. If you can wait, I’ll look next month when I visit our storage locker.

I appreciate the offer, but I got a full set of plans with the boat.
The more I think about the idea, the more I like it. At the same time, the more I think about the freezing rain and single digit temps. here for the next few months, the more I think this will wait until spring.

 

[alfamike]

Side doors

KK-42 -----Side doors in rear cockpit. -- would be a very nice convenience to add. But don't you think it has already been considered by KK ?

Be careful what you do, as unless your a marine engineer you can have unintended consequences way beyond where you put the door.

KK-42 is an ocean crossing, open ocean boat & as such has been built & designed accordingly & is a proven platform as is.

What modifications that will work on a fair weather boat with more freeboard, or even your boat in fair weather, may not hold up in storm conditions in your KK-42.

Remember, Your dead a long time, and it only take one bad sneaker wave to find the weak point. You may also lower the resale value of the boat.

Kadey-Krogen looked at that & in later designs put in a 1/2 height side doors.

They felt that 1/2 height gave them the structural integrity they felt & calculated that was needed & was OK - But they did not just add the door - other reinforcements were also done.

But to go all the way down to the deck compromised to much of the vessels structural integrity. -- so decision was made NOT to do that.

So IMHO a 1/2 height door would be ok.

A full height door down to the deck would not be a good idea.


That would weaken the whole side bulwark from mid-ships back to the door for that rear side of the boat. Would not help the rear either. Could potentially rip open the whole side of the boat & affect the deck to hull joint.


Full down to deck side door means Nothing would be structurally tied together, that being tied together is critical for ultimate strength & rigidity.

How it is done & how reinforced & other structural reinforcement would be needed way beyond where the door is. Putting two would be even worse.


be careful doing this mod. -- BTW - your daughter will grow up & step stools or boarding steps, etc. are a lot cheaper that a expensive & tricky mods like this could end up being.

So good luck.

Alfa Mike

 

[boatpoker]

We are prepping to move aboard our KK42 by the end of the month, and I'm finding that our 6 year old daughter has a very hard time getting on and off the boat. I will probably back the boat in to the slip so we can use the swim step and aft door for now. When we are away from our marina, backing in will not always be possible, and isn't much fun regardless. Wondering if anyone has done, or even seen, a modification to cut a boarding door into the midship section of the bulwarks? I did a bunch of searching and came up with similar questions but no evidence that someone has actually done this. The half door on the KK44 doesn't seem like it would really help, so I'm thinking of cutting out a section all the way to the deck.
I would love to learn from someone elses success or mistakes if possible.

I put this one in our previous boat. Simple glass work, took a weekend.
Our topsides were also cored, like yours.

 

[jimisbell]

I put this one in our previous boat. Simple glass work, took a weekend.
Our topsides were also cored, like yours.

I want to do this on a 1978 Mainship 34. What are the consequences I have to live with?

 

[boatpoker]

I want to do this on a 1978 Mainship 34. What are the consequences I have to live with?

None. I should have done it years earlier.

 

[MYTraveler]

FWIW, when I was spec'ing my boat for its semi-custom construction, I wanted to put a much larger bait tank at the transom. The factory advised against it as the existing bait tank was structural and required much engineering. A larger tank would have required a repeat of that effort, and considerable expense (relative to the value of a larger bait tank -- normal is 170 gallons).

 

[Benthic2]

I would think that you could install latching or bracing mechanism to maintain the structural integrity, like a wheel in the middle that sent steel rods out each side. Since you aren't ( hopefully ) every going to need the door when conditions are bad, you don't use the safety latch in port and on nice days. On the rare occaisions that there's a chance of rough conditions, you batten down the door.

 

[Seevee]

I would do it myself, so I'm not as concerned on cost.

You will still have costs and your time is valuable. If you like the job you can chalk it off to therapeutic enjoyment. But if you hate the job, you could probably hire someone that will work cheaper than you do, and just write the check.

However, there's a strong argument that most of us "novices" actually do a better job than the professional do, so another argument to just do it yourself. I would. (need the therapy)

Merry Christmas

 

[LaBomba]

We had the same issue with our previous boat and had no transom door either. We utilized a 2 step folding stool when needed. At our home marina I added boarding gates in the railings toward the bow and we could step easily on to the dock. I thought about cutting a transom door but was not comfortable with the risks to the structure of the boat. If you are a fair weather boater it will likely be ok, resale?????

 

[jimisbell]

However, there's a strong argument that most of us "novices" actually do a better job than the professional do, so another argument to just do it yourself. I would. (need the therapy)

Merry Christmas

When working on your own boat you have an added motivation to do it right that the "Professional" doesnt have while he/she is looking forward to the end of the job and going home to dinner.

 

[Wil]

Here's the factory boarding door on our 1999 KK39, one on each side about 4ft. forward of the transom. If they had made them 1.5-2x as wide, it would have been a lot more useful. But certainly better than no door.

 

[Ventana]

Here's the factory boarding door on our 1999 KK39, one on each side about 4ft. forward of the transom. If they had made them 1.5-2x as wide, it would have been a lot more useful. But certainly better than no door.

I looked at the doors on the 39 and wrote them off as not being big enough. After having been on the boat for a couple weeks now I think the smaller door would work in some locations. Our current slip has a high bullrail and stepping from that through a half door would probably be fine, maybe not so good on docks without the rail.
Looks like we may be moving to a new slip next week, I will probably just back in and use the transom door for now so I can think about this more.

 

[Larry M]

Stripper: Have you talked to a navel architect about cutting the cap rail and the section out for the side doors with your paravanes. You have the as builts for your boat which should help the NA. I’d be concerned about the loading which is huge when the paravanes are in the water and working.