Wood Boat - Insurance and Pending dilemna

[GFC]

Considering that a timber boat will cost several hundreds of thousand less than its fiberglass equivalent I reckon there is more pain, aguish and years of life you will never get back earning that extra coin to purchase plastic.

Simi, my brother has a place on Lake Huron and for decades has longed for an old wood Chris Craft runabout. He's even cheaper than I am and that is why he doesn't own one.

He teases me about my Tupperware boat but I tell him "That's OK, because while you would be spending your summers refinishing the beautiful mahogany in your popsicle stick boat I'll be out cruising around in my Tupperware boat."

I don't spend anywhere near a fortune every year keeping my plastic boat in tip top shape and it always looks good. I must admit that she's looking a bit long in the tooth. She's ready for her every-other-year wax job. Sorry.

 

[Simi 60]

Wood or fibreglass? Rot or osmosis? Now there`s a dilemma.

You forgot steel and rust and aluminium and electrolysis.

 

[Simi 60]

He teases me about my Tupperware boat but I tell him "That's OK, because while you would be spending your summers refinishing the beautiful mahogany in your popsicle stick boat I'll be out cruising around in my Tupperware boat."

Read my earlier comment about not treating it like a furniture piece and treating it like a work boat.
The only varnish or exposed timberwork on ours is in the same place it is on yours, inside and out of the weather.
Ours had varnished timber on the outer, it is now painted in solid colours - see you again in 5 years or more.

Whilst I agree that a fiberglass boat most likely will have less maintenance the difference in the initial cost of purchase can possibly buy a lifetime of timber boat maintenance.

I don't spend anywhere near a fortune every year keeping my plastic boat in tip top shape and it always looks good. I must admit that she's looking a bit long in the tooth. She's ready for her every-other-year wax job.

Your tin shed berth and every other year wax job will probably cost more than my maintenance costs for several years living aboard.

Just a berth here is over $1000/mth
Tin roofed ones are non existent but if they were available they'd probably be double, so $25,000/year.

 

[mplangley]

And he'll still need a truckload of extra cash to make up the difference to get the same in plastic.

Timber boats aren't that bad once you stop treating them like French polished furniture and start treating them like a timber work boat or shed.

I agree with the above whole heartedly.

In my opinion the scuttle butte about how much work wood boats take is over blown. Its true that a wood boat will absorb as much work as you want to put in to it - but thats not the same thing as saying it needs all that work. I think the ride of the wooden GB's are much nicer than those of fiberglass to be honest as is the silence of the hull while sitting in the birth. Besides - wood is beautiful and fiberglass is just... well its fiberglass. What can i say.

 

[psneeld]

yeah, after decades of watching wood boats sink because they DONT get the maintenance they need...

 

[Simi 60]

yeah, after decades of watching wood boats sink because they DONT get the maintenance they need...

Through hulls and stern glands can fail on plastic, steel and alloy boats as well.

I can show several fiberglass boats in the harbour near us where the pumps come on every hour or two.
I have a counter on ours and they come on once a week or longer and only after we have done some miles.

As for seams, sure they take some extra but easily picked up on when the regular antifouling is done.
The extra hours required on seams last slip would had been 3 hours on a 60fter

 

[BandB]

Through hulls and stern glands can fail on plastic, steel and alloy boats as well.

I can show several fiberglass boats in the harbour near us where the pumps come on every hour or two.
I have a counter on ours and they come on once a week or longer and only after we have one some miles.

As for seams, sure they take some extra but easily picked up on when the regular antifouling is done.
The extra hours required on seams last slip would had been 3 hours on a 60fter

His point is still valid though, that there are proportionately far more sunken wooden boats around than glass, steel and aluminum. On the lake we saw them regularly. Here on the coast, not so much, but have seen a couple.

I'm not demeaning wooden boats but it's a reasonable concern and an area to be cognizant of. Wooden boats aren't for me, I've got more than enough wood on decks, but they're beautiful when properly maintained. However, that takes the level of maintenance you find excessive.

 

[Simi 60]

His point is still valid though, that there are proportionately far more sunken wooden boats around than glass, steel and aluminum. On the lake we saw them regularly. Here on the coast, not so much, but have seen a couple.

Perhaps because back in the day there were far more wooden boats.
As wooden boats cost a fraction to buy compared to others, they are sometimes bought by people who wont even do the bare minimum of maintenance.
Some won't even have auto bilge pumps, batteries or solar to keep up charge.
Because of their low initial cost they are financially easier for people to walk away from.

I can take you to parts of the globe where steel boats litter the bottom.
Doesn't mean that steel boats are bad.

 

[Simi 60]

Not having a go at you here BandB but you come across as a shiney furniture piece type of wooden boat owner and as mentioned earlier, that is excessive cost and maintenance.

Actual working trawler/work boat finish is far easier.
Think of a fiberglass boat painted with industrial enamel and a roller vs one with the mirror finish done in awlgrip.
One is painted and back in the water being used while the other is still doing prep work.

 

[psneeld]

Perhaps because back in the day there were far more wooden boats.
As wooden boats cost a fraction to buy compared to others, they are sometimes bought by people who wont even do the bare minimum of maintenance.
Some won't even have auto bilge pumps, batteries or solar to keep up charge.
Because of their low initial cost they are financially easier for people to walk away from.

I can take you to parts of the globe where steel boats litter the bottom.
Doesn't mean that steel boats are bad.

This is all true...

But miss one area of bad fasteners on haulout and the result is usually sudden death of a wood boat.

So maintenance or lack of is way more critical, workboat finish or not.

 

[BandB]

Not having a go at you here BandB but you come across as a shiney furniture piece type of wooden boat owner and as mentioned earlier, that is excessive cost and maintenance.

Actual working trawler/work boat finish is far easier.
Think of a fiberglass boat painted with industrial enamel and a roller vs one with the mirror finish done in awlgrip.
One is painted and back in the water being used while the other is still doing prep work.

No, I'm a "no way in h I'd ever own a wood boat" type, to make it clear. Not shiny or junky. Now, most of the wood boats I've been around have been nicely maintained as that's what most people want. I guess the ones not maintained had already sunk.

 

[Simi 60]

This is all true...

But miss one area of bad fasteners on haulout and the result is usually sudden death of a wood boat.

So maintenance or lack of is way more critical, workboat finish or not.

Of course, and, refastening our hull with silicon bronze fasteners is on the list of things to do in the not to distant future even though she is tight and on the crawl through survey all "appeared" good.
Even with that additional expense we will still financially be near a $million in front compared to buying our fiberglass equivalent (if it existed) so for us its a no brainer.

Add: people we know just had their 65 ft milkraft hull refastened so an idea on cost and effort was available to me.

 

[psneeld]

Of course, and, refastening our hull with silica bronze fasteners is on the list of things to do in the not to distant future even though she is tight and on the crawl through survey all "appeared" good.
Even with that additional expense we will still financially be near a $million in front compared to buying our fiberglass equivalent (if it existed) so for us its a no brainer.

no dobt for your situation, you could be in the best spot you could be....

 

[Simi 60]

No, I'm a "no way in h I'd ever own a wood boat" type, to make it clear. Not shiny or junky. Now, most of the wood boats I've been around have been nicely maintained as that's what most people want. I guess the ones not maintained had already sunk.

As long as you realize that shiney does not equate to maintained.

I have seen shiney boats and cars that are steaming piles of shite under that sheen.
I have seen the same that looks like junk on the surface be a mechanical marvel inside.

 

[Simi 60]

no dobt for your situation, you could be in the best spot you could be....

Nah, that'll be south east Asia in the near future.
A yard to take ours and bigger with reasonably skilled timber workers for $25/day vs $100/hour or more here.

She'll be getting all the maintenance she wants and some at those rates.

 

[psneeld]

Nah, that'll be south east Asia in the near future.
A yard to take ours and bigger with reasonably skilled timber workers for $25/day vs $100/hour or more here.

She'll be getting all the maintenance she wants and some at those rates.

actually I was talking the size and value of you vessel.... a good deal in your oponion and that is what matters...

I can see your point on finding good timber labor and inexoensive by that much is definitely a bonus.

 

[markpierce]

I treat my steel boat as a work boat. Appearance needn't be perfect. Leave it ruggedly handsome and masculine as Ernest Borgnine.

 

[Art]

Decades of Learned Fact


Having owned and enjoyed wooden and fiberglass boats. Having tended to others' wooden and fiberglass boats in boat yards; as well as tending to my families and my own:


Whether a well built boat is kept in really great condition or in simply usable condition... in general... fiberglass boats are easier to deal with than wooden boats.


It's Just That Simple - No Question In My Mind!

 

[ghost]

I learned much of what I know about varnishing on a lapstrake Lyman some forty something years ago. I learned woodworking and other skills. I’d pay dearly to get back all of the memories from that boat. If I found her, having sold her some 25 years back or so, I would not have her back for free. I love going to wooden boat festivals, but don’t want to own one. Except maybe that North Sea Trawler, sister to the Ursa Major...but I digress.

I wonder out loud whether we have partly confounded our general distaste for wood boats, with our distaste for old boats.

As my 48 Tolly approaches forty, and I look at the list of projects I have routinely tackled the past ten years. Not even to mention the 8 foot long I beam I just removed from my salon last week that I had temporarily installed to help move heavy engine parts as I pulled a cylinder head. The cold hard fact is, precious few owners are up for the task of maintaining any boat, wood or not.

In another ten years, as fewer old boats are wood boats, I suspect we will be having some very similar conversations. Only, the questions will be the value of an otherwise sound hull, with a very expensive laundry list of issues to make right.

 

[Art]

I learned much of what I know about varnishing on a lapstrake Lyman some forty something years ago. I learned woodworking and other skills. I’d pay dearly to get back all of the memories from that boat. If I found her, having sold her some 25 years back or so, I would not have her back for free. I love going to wooden boat festivals, but don’t want to own one. Except maybe that North Sea Trawler, sister to the Ursa Major...but I digress.

I wonder out loud whether we have partly confounded our general distaste for wood boats, with our distaste for old boats.

As my 48 Tolly approaches forty, and I look at the list of projects I have routinely tackled the past ten years. Not even to mention the 8 foot long I beam I just removed from my salon last week that I had temporarily installed to help move heavy engine parts as I pulled a cylinder head. The cold hard fact is, precious few owners are up for the task of maintaining any boat, wood or not.

In another ten years, as fewer old boats are wood boats, I suspect we will be having some very similar conversations. Only, the questions will be the value of an otherwise sound hull, with a very expensive laundry list of issues to make right.

Excellent post, ghost... fellow Tolly owner. Our 34' tri cabin Tolly is 41 yrs. now... going strong!

I well recall lapstrake Lyman o/b boats [and similar others] from the 50's and 60's. Family friends, Minnie and Bill Smith with 7 kids, would come into Zack's Bay LI, NY in a Lyman for weekend fun.. sure was setting low in the water with that many aboard.

1961... My family had a lapstrake "Johnson Bros." 31' boat for only one season. Hull slap at anchor allowed little to no sleeping for mom and dad.... in front V-berth. Not too bad for we three young boys in cockpit under snapped on canvas. Boat before that was a 23' 1948 Chris Craft Express. Boat after the labstrake Johnson Bros. was custom built 38' carvel planked, raised deck sport fisher with fly bridge... she needed attention; been used hard and put away wet. I worked on each boat as I grew; surely had become dad's right hand boat-boy due to my natural abilities and capability/desire of learning mechanical doings.

On the wooden sport fisher [keel laid 1951] dad and I redid the boat and turned it into a really nice sedan. Much long range New England coastal cruising for years. Repowered her too with Perkins diesel from the original Nordberg Knight gasser.

Having boating decades behind me; I really appreciate Tollycraft boat's general build quality. There are of course some items that could have been a bit better engineered and some things that need attention... but overall... older Tolly' are pretty much hard to beat.

Happy Boat-Ownership Daze! - Art

 

[BandB]

In another ten years, as fewer old boats are wood boats, I suspect we will be having some very similar conversations. Only, the questions will be the value of an otherwise sound hull, with a very expensive laundry list of issues to make right.

It's a reason we purchase new and, even then, if I had to personally maintain the boats, our approach to boating would be far different than it is.

 

[Art]

It's a reason we purchase new and, even then, if I had to personally maintain the boats, our approach to boating would be far different than it is.

Meaning?? Please give details on how you would approach boating if you too had to do work on boat.

 

[psneeld]

Meaning?? Please give details on how you would approach boating if you too had to do work on boat.

get a boat requiring as much work as mine and using it up as fast as I am....

dang near driving me out of boating.

 

[Art]

get a boat requiring as much work as mine and using it up as fast as I am....

dang near driving me out of boating.

And... if your were Wadda ya think your next life style maybe would become??

Dirt house living.

Motor home travel.

Apartment on 6th floor.

Continuous travel in multiple ways.

Living on cruise ships.

Jail time - a real freebee; naw forget that one - lol

Anyway - Having read your interesting, knowledgeable posts for about seven years... I'd say you are pretty happily addicted, extremely experienced and in general well suited to your current "marine", boat-life lifestyle. And, so long as health continues, would be hard pressed to follow another direction in life that would please you as much.

 

[BandB]

Meaning?? Please give details on how you would approach boating if you too had to do work on boat.

Meaning probably still on the lake with one simple boat requiring virtually no maintenance.

 

[dhays]

You likely will never get a deal like described again for that hull, take the money and run. I am a wood boat guy.

I agree. As painful as it may be, if it were my I’d bail out. OTOH, if you have the skills do repower it yourself.... then maybe.

 

[AusCan]

If you like the boat and can re-power it yourself I'd say go for it.

If you want the best financial advice, get out of boating.
but there is more to life than money.

 

[Simi 60]

Meaning probably still on the lake with one simple boat requiring virtually no maintenance.

No maintenance apart from everything.
It still needs paint, anodes, pumps, engine, shaft seals, electrical, interior bright work, steering, and and and and.

Not even expensive new fiberglass boats can escape that reality.

 

[BandB]

No maintenance apart from everything.
It still needs paint, anodes, pumps, engine, shaft seals, electrical, interior bright work, steering, and and and and.

Not even expensive new fiberglass boats can escape that reality.

Not with a simple new runabout on the lake. No paint. No anodes. No serious work for years. Then trade it. No interior to have bright work.

 

[Art]

Meaning probably still on the lake with one simple boat requiring virtually no maintenance.

Good answer!