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Old 01-26-2015, 05:12 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by Donsan View Post
Is the GB Europa considered Heritage?
.
Yes, although they dropped the terminology. There are two models of EU today, the 43, 47 and 54. There is one Classic model, the 47. Both of these builds fit under their Heritage list. There are 6 models of both Aleutian and Eastbay.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:23 PM   #82
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Is the GB Europa considered Heritage?

Europa is a physical configuration of cruiser. Like Sedan, Classic, Tri-Cabin, Pilothouse, etc. etc. etc. American Marine was building wood Europa models of some of its boats back in the 60s and early 70s.

Heritage Grand Banks is the name given to the currently produced boats which above the waterline look similar to the original line of Grand Banks boats that dates from 1966. There are three models: GB43, GB47, and GB54. None of them use the original Ken Smith designed semi-planing hull that was used on all Grand Banks boats until the current Heritage lineup.

The GB43, available only in Europa configuration, is the pod-drive planing boat. The GB47 is available in tri-cabin ("Classic") configuration or Europa configuration and is a conventional drive planing boat. The GB54 replaces the Ken Smith-hulled GB52 and is a conventional drive, planing-type boat. It is available only in Europa configuration.

The "proper" names for the different configuations of all Grand Banks is "Classic," which is the tri-cabin, "Sedan" which is like the tri-cabin but has no aft cabin and instead has a slightly longer forecabin and a considerably longer main cabin, "Europa" which is a Sedan with covered side and aft decks," and "Motoryacht" which is a tri-cabin but with a full-width aft cabin. Some manufacturers call this configuation a "Sundeck."

These four configurations were available in all the Grand Banks models except the GB32 which to my knowledge was made only as a sedan. Owners have added aft-deck covers, sometimes fabric, sometimes hard, to GB32s, which is a nice addition to the boat.

Also the GB52 has only been made as a Europa, I believe. There have been several through the GB dealership in our harbor and they've all been Europas.

All the older Grand Banks models, from the GB32 all the way up through the GB52, used the Ken Smith-designed semi-planing hull. This applies to the single and twin engine versions.

All these models were phased out by the mid to late-2000s except the GB52, which was produced until only a few years ago.

The current (Heritage) line of boats, while superficially resembling the older models, are very different boats.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:32 PM   #83
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Also the GB52 has only been made as a Europa, I believe. There have been several through the GB dealership in our harbor and they've all been Europas.
50, 54 and 58 have been Europa only.
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:49 PM   #84
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We looked at the Beneteau Swift 34 and 44 last Thursday at Trawlerfest and I was disappointed in each. The layouts were nice but everything felt cheap and somewhat flimsy compared to the other boats we looked at.

One of our favorites was a Grand Banks Europa 42'.
I confused the Europa with the Heritage. I think the Heritage is very similar in style to Swift 44. Nonetheless, the GB is approximately double the price, I believe.

We like ours but it's our first boat!
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Old 01-26-2015, 05:55 PM   #85
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50, 54 and 58 have been Europa only.
There was also the amazing turd of a Grand Banks called the GB66. Only three were made (thank God) two of which came though the dealership in our harbor. Absolutely hideous things, they all sported fully encloused--- hard cabin not fabric--- flying bridges that weighed a ton. They were Europa configuration, and were testimony to the fadt that some designs can aestheticlaly onlyi be made so big. To my way of thinking, the GB52 just about exceeds that size. The GB66 definitely does.

A good friend who at the time was the lead shipwright for the GB dealership and was involved in the commissioning of one of the GB66s told me that "... the damn things are so unstable you need to turn the stabilizers on at the dock." He was exaggerating of course, but he said that it made him nervous ot walk from one side of the boat deck to the other, the boat swayed so much. I was told by one of the brokers at dealership that the stabilizers had to be on at all times when the boat was underway.

The way-heavy flying bridge house was not Grand Bank's idea. The buyer of hull #1 insisted on it, and the buyers of hulls 2 and 3 liked it so much they wanted it too. You would have thought Grand Banks would have known better, but apparently they didn't.

Only the three were made. One of them, on a GB-sponsored cruise to Alaska, tore one of the stabilizers off on a rock north of Prince Rupert and nearly sank. I saw this one in the Seaview North yard being repaired after it had limped back to Bellingham.

I have no idea where they are now. I've never seen any of them again after the Alaska incident.
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Old 01-26-2015, 06:03 PM   #86
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Originally Posted by Marin View Post


All the older Grand Banks models, from the GB32 all the way up through the GB52, used the Ken Smith-designed semi-planing hull. This applies to the single and twin engine versions.

All these models were phased out by the mid to late-2000s except the GB52, which was produced until only a few years ago.

The current (Heritage) line of boats, while superficially resembling the older models, are very different boats.
I wonder if GB would re-introduce their popular 36 42 classic/ motor yacht versions would the public accept them as in the past. I personally would love to have a classic 42 with NA John Deere's or Cummins 150 hp engines. Simple, functional galley with a need for no more than a 8kw genset. The allure to me of the GB 42 was the reliable systems on board without too much complexity. They kept it simple and for the most part bullet proof. Is there still a market out there for such a boat built by a quality boat builder? I think Beneteau comes close with their swift trawler coming from a sail boat background.
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Old 01-26-2015, 06:22 PM   #87
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I wonder if GB would re-introduce their popular 36 42 classic/ motor yacht versions would the public accept them as in the past.
First of all, according to our big GB dealer, the Motoryacht was the least popular of all the GB configurations, although it may have been tied in that position by the Sedan. The GB Motoryacht makes dock access rather difficult as it does away with one of the GBs most popular features, which is the full-walkaround deck.

The most popular configurations of GB were the Classic (tri-cabin) and the Europa.

Second, I don't think there is a snowball's chance in hell that GB will ever reintroduce any of the older models. They have that size range covered with the current GB43 and 47.

I think the only way GB can compete in the 36-42 foot range is to totally revamp their thinking and come up with a new design aimed at the less-affluent market and have it built in the PRC But the competition is pretty fierce in that market, so I think they are already way too late to that party.

My guess is that unless the market picks up for their current lineup of Heritage, Eastbay, and Aleutian boats, Grand Banks is destined for the "once-was" category like Tollycraft, Uniflite, and so on. Either that or they find a whole lot of money and simply buy their way into the less-expensive cruiser market by purchasing an existing manufacturer. I don't know anything about the Palm Beach thing, so pehaps that's what they are already trying to do.


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Is there still a market out there for such a boat built by a quality boat builder?.
Sure, but not at a Grand Banks price point. And not if the boat goes a glacial 7 or 8 knots. New-boat buyers don't want to creep across the water at a pace even a seal can beat without raising a sweat or whatever it is that seals do.
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Old 01-27-2015, 08:26 AM   #88
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But it's not that simple of course ... nor is hull typing. I like to classify the hulls into 4 types .. not three. FD, SP, SD and planing in that order. Semi means "partly" and I personally consider partly to be less than half. But there are many hull types represented here on TF that IMO are easy to classify but many others seem impossible. They just don't fit established definitions or my own opinion.


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But i don't understand your logic on the 4th type. In that, if it isnt a full displacement, as you have defined very well, and it's not a planing hull, then it is somewhere in between, thus a semi planing or semi displacement, though I agree with Marin, that they should really be called semi planing. for many of the reason you have described so well.


We as a people (culture, civilization, whatever) often like to classify things into specific slots -- black or white; A or B or C; individual cubbyholes; etc. -- but over the years I've become more comfortable just accepting that some things can only be described as somewhere along a continuum...

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Old 01-28-2015, 03:13 PM   #89
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http://www.trawlerforum.com/forums/s...tml#post302859

New thread here. I'll reopen this thread once the dust settles a bit and folks find the new thread.
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Old 01-28-2015, 06:17 PM   #90
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One element of business we sometimes tend to overlook that plays a roll in this entire discussion. Two ways to make money. One is, you create what the majority of the market wants and you do it at a price that will sell. The other is you create a small niche but then you must provide enough special to justify a significantly higher cost.

Boat builders are missing that first market in the range we're discussing. It is what was once the Bayliner market. You can't have the prices Grand Banks now has and be that volume producer. The only volume producer in the mid range market is Sea Ray.
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Old 01-28-2015, 09:13 PM   #91
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Well here I go. I think it is of value to classify a hull by its lines but maybe more important by how it runs in the water. Examples; a boat with planning hull lines is powered and used only below its rule of thumb theoretical hull speed. So to me that is a functional full displacement boat. Then take the same boat and put more power in it so it can exceed its hull speed but not to the point of lifting any significant part of the hull out of the water and the bow wave stays right on the bow. Now that boat for me is in a SD mode and may never truly plane and if slowed down can also travel in a full displacement mode. Next add more power and since the hull lines are planning capable the hull starts lifting out of the water and the bow wave moves back away from the bow till on extreme plane only the props are in the water as seen on very fast outboards. Some boats can transition from one mode to another with the planning hull capable of all three. Some designs by hull and power are more limited in their mode with the FD fixed at one mode and the SD two modes. There is usually a price to pay for using a boat out of its hull design parameters and that can be efficiency or handling characteristics or both. With care a boat designed to function in the SD mode can be a reasonable compromise for many and that is why there are so many of this type. Unfortunately the SD group suffers from excessive weight beam freeboard air height and broad bow entries all things that add to the happiness of she who must be obeyed.
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