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Old 11-16-2015, 03:41 PM   #1
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"Best-Reputed seakeeping hulls ever" Huh?

Please comment on this remark from Yachtworld on a 44 Trojan Express Cruiser. I am curious about the "one of the best ... hulls ever" comment. Not really looking for comments/opinions about brokers.


"out for 100's of hours of sport cruising on a beamy 44. Alaska. Portland. L.A. With complete confidence. It's a Trojan hull after all, one of the best-reputed sea-keeping cruiser hulls ever."

Hyperbole or (some) Truth?

Thanks!

Keb
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Old 11-16-2015, 03:56 PM   #2
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I don't think so.

Here's another opinion.
Boat Review by David Pascoe - Trojan_440_express
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:52 PM   #3
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Didn't Codger II (Walt) have one of these once? Kinda remember him saying "it pounded like a bitch" or words to that affect if I'm not misremembering the boat model.
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Old 11-16-2015, 04:57 PM   #4
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The older 10 and 14 meter Trojans had good reps...even with Pascoe I think ....but don't care.

Not sure about the newer ones but those old wide bodies and solid hulls had a big following.
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Old 11-16-2015, 06:05 PM   #5
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I think Trojan called that a Delta Conic hull. It was a little unusual in that the bottom "warped" in an ever changing dead rise. I think the main stability came for the wide beam of the hull.

https://www.google.com/search?q=troj...FYhiJgodlDoENg
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Old 11-16-2015, 06:32 PM   #6
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Should be quite to very efficient at the design speed range and soft riding in a chop. Ride may go south on bigger waves. Turns should be rather flat w little chance of excessive banking. Also following sea performance may be substandard. Too much lift aft at the chine. Just my opinion at a glance.

Looks way far south of "best-Reputed sea keeping hull"
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:36 PM   #7
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So if one disregards this 44 cruiser hull, were Trojan hulls some of the best ever sea-keeping hulls? I am curious what made them so good, if they were in fact, or maybe just in this salesman's mind. Puffery?

I am not looking to buy one, it's just that statement made me say "whaaaaaaaat?" Who can I ask if that's true or not...

It's off season for many, so isn't it time to talk about hulls, hull speed, anchor size, hp ratios and such?
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Old 11-16-2015, 07:42 PM   #8
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Pascoe had some choice words for Trojan in "Mid Size Power Boats":
"One of the early builders of economy plywood boats, Trojan also built some pretty good mahogany boats too. The F series of fly bridge sedan cruisers had a long run of popularity in the 70s and early 80s. Not exactly built to last for 30 years, there are still some around. As they moved into larger fiberglass boats, they produced some truly awful motor yachts and double cabins.

The 1980s saw the introduction of the International series. At one time, Trojan was owned by the same parent as Bertram, the Whitticar Corporation and for a while there was a company named Bertram-Trojan, which is the name you'll find on some of the Internationals. Most of the earlier Trojan modals have gone to the grinder already and are now doing service as picnic table planks.

The Internationals were all designed by Harry Schoell with his patented "Deltaconic" hull. I never understood why the patent since I didn't think that this design produced a particularly good ride, plus they were not the least bit efficient. They were flawed by hollows in the hull shape that created resistance. However, these boats were notable for having rather heavy solid fiberglass hulls, intelligent design, and sold at a moderate price. Spacious but have very cramped engine rooms. Nice styling that holds its appeal, the main models were Convertibles and Expresses, the later of which are probably the better all around boats. Like a lot of older boats, they're rather fuel hungry. They're still attractive buys to people who want newer boats but can't afford them."
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Old 11-16-2015, 08:48 PM   #9
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Trojan 14 Meter Convertible
1988
** Best Buy **

by*David Pascoe

Here's another boat we happen to like. Solid construction and good design are the reasons why. Designed by Harry Shoell and bearing the name Bertram-Trojan, Inc., this particular hull comes in two styles, the convertible and the express. And one of its more outstanding features is the ultra wide beam (16-3) combined with a moderately deep vee, it is a better sea performer than its smaller International series cousins. At 35,000 lbs, her weight in our view is just about right, neither too light nor too heavy.

Note:*The Trojan 10,11 and 12 meter models are all of equally good quality and are available in both the convertible and express models. If you want better diesel performance, you'll need to move up to the 11 or 12 meter model where Cat 375's or Detroit Diesel 450's are available. The bigger diesels also fit in the express models because of a higher deck. If you're a speed freak, you'll like the express with 450's; its a screamer.

Seems like some Trojans made his "best buy list".

Guess you have to read everything to get the full story....
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Old 11-16-2015, 09:48 PM   #10
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Should be quite to very efficient at the design speed range and soft riding in a chop. Ride may go south on bigger waves. Turns should be rather flat w little chance of excessive banking. Also following sea performance may be substandard. Too much lift aft at the chine. Just my opinion at a glance.

Looks way far south of "best-Reputed sea keeping hull"
Eric, I think you are right especially about following seas. It looks like about a 12 degree dead rise at the transom. The broad, flat transom; lack of dead rise; and small rudders portend instability in following seas.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:30 AM   #11
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Looking at these boats I doubt that "seakeeping" was ever a consideration.

The ability to go to sea would be very limited by fuel, scantlings etc.

Might be able to run up a coast , with plenty of fuel spots and places to get out of any real weather.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:37 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by refugio View Post
"One of the early builders of economy plywood boats, Trojan also built some pretty good mahogany boats too. The F series of fly bridge sedan cruisers had a long run of popularity in the 70s and early 80s. Not exactly built to last for 30 years, there are still some around. As they moved into larger fiberglass boats, they produced some truly awful motor yachts and double cabins.

Some personal history on Trojans from the early 70's...At the time I was a sales guy for Jackson Marine Sales (one of the largest Trojan dealers of the day). In the Popular 31 series, they made, Ply, Lapstrake, and planked models depending on your budget. The well known and liked 42' Motoryacht (Planked) was built in Elkton Maryland ....Up the creek at the head of the Elk river, about 5 miles from where I lived. I would somtimes go with the company captain to run one out the creek into the Chesapeake for it's shakedown run. The market was pretty competitive then and a well equipped Gas 42' generally went out the door in the $70K range. The dealer made $3K, and I, the sales guy made almost nothing! They were beautiful boats in their day..

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Old 11-17-2015, 11:50 AM   #13
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Everything I've heard regarding Trojan's has always been positive. While it isn't necessarily so, the ad the OP mentioned is not the only time I've heard them referred to in such glowing terms. Obviously anyone declaring "best" is subject to lots of argument and question, but among the best of it's time may be fair in the minds of many. I've never been on one.
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Old 11-17-2015, 11:59 AM   #14
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Plus most TFers only think from their perspective...... not the whole boating picture .....which is huge and many other boaters couldn't begin to comprehend travelling thousands of miles somewhere between the speed of walking and jogging.
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Old 11-17-2015, 12:27 PM   #15
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Plus most TFers only think from their perspective...... not the whole boating picture .....which is huge and many other boaters couldn't begin to comprehend travelling thousands of miles somewhere between the speed of walking and jogging.
Always a good reminder that any single boat form is a very small percentage of the overall market. For the first 41+ years of my life it was 30' and under, mostly runabouts or fishing or pontoon or ski boats. The slow ones only ran 20-25 mph. The fast ones around 60 mph. The cruising grounds were 50 sq miles in size.
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Old 11-17-2015, 01:03 PM   #16
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This forum can't be reminded enough. Just look at some of the controversial threads going on
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Old 11-17-2015, 02:13 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keb View Post
Please comment on this remark from Yachtworld on a 44 Trojan Express Cruiser. I am curious about the "one of the best ... hulls ever" comment. Not really looking for comments/opinions about brokers.


"out for 100's of hours of sport cruising on a beamy 44. Alaska. Portland. L.A. With complete confidence. It's a Trojan hull after all, one of the best-reputed sea-keeping cruiser hulls ever."

Hyperbole or (some) Truth?

Thanks!

Keb
From a truly "trawler" perspective, this is nowhere close to a fuel-efficient, long range liveaboard cruising boat, much less open ocean capable.
At 44'x16', it moves with some authority, creating the impression that it is capable of taking on big water, but the width of the hull offers quite some resistance in headsea, and white knuckle performance in a following sea.


When viewed as JUST a hull, you have a kind of a wide lobsterboat, with strong possibilities of making a nice sportfishing boat, as long as it is kept light.
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keb View Post
Please comment on this remark from Yachtworld on a 44 Trojan Express Cruiser. I am curious about the "one of the best ... hulls ever" comment. Not really looking for comments/opinions about brokers.


"out for 100's of hours of sport cruising on a beamy 44. Alaska. Portland. L.A. With complete confidence. It's a Trojan hull after all, one of the best-reputed sea-keeping cruiser hulls ever."

Hyperbole or (some) Truth?

Thanks!

Keb
Think of car ads and marketing.

No difference.

And of course there is some truth, even a lot of truth. Have you seen the comparison between the Trojan and a tree trunk?

Trojan gives a much better ride.
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:31 PM   #19
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When viewed as JUST a hull, you have a kind of a wide lobsterboat, with strong possibilities of making a nice sportfishing boat, as long as it is kept light.

I don't get the similarity to a lobster hull. A true lobster boat hull has fine entry, no hard chine, keel, flat run aft and rounded chine line. The Trojan Deltaconic has extremely wide chines, no keel, about a 12 degree deadrise at the stern and the entry is not as sharp. At least the east coast ones do. I don't know about the west coast. Just my observation.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lobs...PlkAftRtBdI%3D
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Old 11-17-2015, 05:42 PM   #20
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I don't get the similarity to a lobster hull. A true lobster boat hull has fine entry, no hard chine, keel, flat run aft and rounded chine line. The Trojan Deltaconic has extremely wide chines, no keel, about a 12 degree deadrise at the stern and the entry is not as sharp. At least the east coast ones do. I don't know about the west coast. Just my observation.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lobs...PlkAftRtBdI%3D
Me either...at least the older hulls.

Are the new expresses that narrow with a major full length keel?
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