"Best-Reputed seakeeping hulls ever" Huh?

The friendliest place on the web for anyone who enjoys boating.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
See posts with no answers
keb

keb

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 25, 2013
Messages
151
Please comment on this remark from Yachtworld on a 44 Trojan Express Cruiser. I am curious about the "one of the best ... hulls ever" comment. Not really looking for comments/opinions about brokers. :angel:


"out for 100's of hours of sport cruising on a beamy 44. Alaska. Portland. L.A. With complete confidence. It's a Trojan hull after all, one of the best-reputed sea-keeping cruiser hulls ever."

Hyperbole or (some) Truth?

Thanks!

Keb
 
Didn't Codger II (Walt) have one of these once? Kinda remember him saying "it pounded like a bitch" or words to that affect if I'm not misremembering the boat model.
 
The older 10 and 14 meter Trojans had good reps...even with Pascoe I think ....but don't care. :D

Not sure about the newer ones but those old wide bodies and solid hulls had a big following.
 
Should be quite to very efficient at the design speed range and soft riding in a chop. Ride may go south on bigger waves. Turns should be rather flat w little chance of excessive banking. Also following sea performance may be substandard. Too much lift aft at the chine. Just my opinion at a glance.

Looks way far south of "best-Reputed sea keeping hull"
 
Last edited:
So if one disregards this 44 cruiser hull, were Trojan hulls some of the best ever sea-keeping hulls? I am curious what made them so good, if they were in fact, or maybe just in this salesman's mind. Puffery?

I am not looking to buy one, it's just that statement made me say "whaaaaaaaat?" Who can I ask if that's true or not...

It's off season for many, so isn't it time to talk about hulls, hull speed, anchor size, hp ratios and such?
 
Pascoe had some choice words for Trojan in "Mid Size Power Boats":
"One of the early builders of economy plywood boats, Trojan also built some pretty good mahogany boats too. The F series of fly bridge sedan cruisers had a long run of popularity in the 70s and early 80s. Not exactly built to last for 30 years, there are still some around. As they moved into larger fiberglass boats, they produced some truly awful motor yachts and double cabins.

The 1980s saw the introduction of the International series. At one time, Trojan was owned by the same parent as Bertram, the Whitticar Corporation and for a while there was a company named Bertram-Trojan, which is the name you'll find on some of the Internationals. Most of the earlier Trojan modals have gone to the grinder already and are now doing service as picnic table planks.

The Internationals were all designed by Harry Schoell with his patented "Deltaconic" hull. I never understood why the patent since I didn't think that this design produced a particularly good ride, plus they were not the least bit efficient. They were flawed by hollows in the hull shape that created resistance. However, these boats were notable for having rather heavy solid fiberglass hulls, intelligent design, and sold at a moderate price. Spacious but have very cramped engine rooms. Nice styling that holds its appeal, the main models were Convertibles and Expresses, the later of which are probably the better all around boats. Like a lot of older boats, they're rather fuel hungry. They're still attractive buys to people who want newer boats but can't afford them."​
 
Last edited:
Trojan 14 Meter Convertible
1988
** Best Buy **

by*David Pascoe

Here's another boat we happen to like. Solid construction and good design are the reasons why. Designed by Harry Shoell and bearing the name Bertram-Trojan, Inc., this particular hull comes in two styles, the convertible and the express. And one of its more outstanding features is the ultra wide beam (16-3) combined with a moderately deep vee, it is a better sea performer than its smaller International series cousins. At 35,000 lbs, her weight in our view is just about right, neither too light nor too heavy.

Note:*The Trojan 10,11 and 12 meter models are all of equally good quality and are available in both the convertible and express models. If you want better diesel performance, you'll need to move up to the 11 or 12 meter model where Cat 375's or Detroit Diesel 450's are available. The bigger diesels also fit in the express models because of a higher deck. If you're a speed freak, you'll like the express with 450's; its a screamer.

Seems like some Trojans made his "best buy list".

Guess you have to read everything to get the full story....
 
Last edited:
manyboats said:
Should be quite to very efficient at the design speed range and soft riding in a chop. Ride may go south on bigger waves. Turns should be rather flat w little chance of excessive banking. Also following sea performance may be substandard. Too much lift aft at the chine. Just my opinion at a glance.

Looks way far south of "best-Reputed sea keeping hull"
Click to expand...

Eric, I think you are right especially about following seas. It looks like about a 12 degree dead rise at the transom. The broad, flat transom; lack of dead rise; and small rudders portend instability in following seas.
 
Looking at these boats I doubt that "seakeeping" was ever a consideration.

The ability to go to sea would be very limited by fuel, scantlings etc.

Might be able to run up a coast , with plenty of fuel spots and places to get out of any real weather.
 
refugio said:
"One of the early builders of economy plywood boats, Trojan also built some pretty good mahogany boats too. The F series of fly bridge sedan cruisers had a long run of popularity in the 70s and early 80s. Not exactly built to last for 30 years, there are still some around. As they moved into larger fiberglass boats, they produced some truly awful motor yachts and double cabins.

​
Click to expand...

Some personal history on Trojans from the early 70's...At the time I was a sales guy for Jackson Marine Sales (one of the largest Trojan dealers of the day). In the Popular 31 series, they made, Ply, Lapstrake, and planked models depending on your budget. The well known and liked 42' Motoryacht (Planked) was built in Elkton Maryland ....Up the creek at the head of the Elk river, about 5 miles from where I lived. I would somtimes go with the company captain to run one out the creek into the Chesapeake for it's shakedown run. The market was pretty competitive then and a well equipped Gas 42' generally went out the door in the $70K range. The dealer made $3K, and I, the sales guy made almost nothing! They were beautiful boats in their day..

240-0158753001444125676-1772049-1.jpg
 
Last edited:
Everything I've heard regarding Trojan's has always been positive. While it isn't necessarily so, the ad the OP mentioned is not the only time I've heard them referred to in such glowing terms. Obviously anyone declaring "best" is subject to lots of argument and question, but among the best of it's time may be fair in the minds of many. I've never been on one.
 
Plus most TFers only think from their perspective...... not the whole boating picture .....which is huge and many other boaters couldn't begin to comprehend travelling thousands of miles somewhere between the speed of walking and jogging.
 
psneeld said:
Plus most TFers only think from their perspective...... not the whole boating picture .....which is huge and many other boaters couldn't begin to comprehend travelling thousands of miles somewhere between the speed of walking and jogging.
Click to expand...

Always a good reminder that any single boat form is a very small percentage of the overall market. For the first 41+ years of my life it was 30' and under, mostly runabouts or fishing or pontoon or ski boats. The slow ones only ran 20-25 mph. The fast ones around 60 mph. The cruising grounds were 50 sq miles in size.
 
This forum can't be reminded enough. Just look at some of the controversial threads going on
 
keb said:
Please comment on this remark from Yachtworld on a 44 Trojan Express Cruiser. I am curious about the "one of the best ... hulls ever" comment. Not really looking for comments/opinions about brokers. :angel:


"out for 100's of hours of sport cruising on a beamy 44. Alaska. Portland. L.A. With complete confidence. It's a Trojan hull after all, one of the best-reputed sea-keeping cruiser hulls ever."

Hyperbole or (some) Truth?

Thanks!

Keb
Click to expand...

From a truly "trawler" perspective, this is nowhere close to a fuel-efficient, long range liveaboard cruising boat, much less open ocean capable.
At 44'x16', it moves with some authority, creating the impression that it is capable of taking on big water, but the width of the hull offers quite some resistance in headsea, and white knuckle performance in a following sea.


When viewed as JUST a hull, you have a kind of a wide lobsterboat, with strong possibilities of making a nice sportfishing boat, as long as it is kept light.
 
keb said:
Please comment on this remark from Yachtworld on a 44 Trojan Express Cruiser. I am curious about the "one of the best ... hulls ever" comment. Not really looking for comments/opinions about brokers. :angel:


"out for 100's of hours of sport cruising on a beamy 44. Alaska. Portland. L.A. With complete confidence. It's a Trojan hull after all, one of the best-reputed sea-keeping cruiser hulls ever."

Hyperbole or (some) Truth?

Thanks!

Keb
Click to expand...

Think of car ads and marketing.:D

No difference.

And of course there is some truth, even a lot of truth. Have you seen the comparison between the Trojan and a tree trunk?:eek:

Trojan gives a much better ride.:facepalm:
 
kapnd said:
When viewed as JUST a hull, you have a kind of a wide lobsterboat, with strong possibilities of making a nice sportfishing boat, as long as it is kept light.
Click to expand...


I don't get the similarity to a lobster hull. A true lobster boat hull has fine entry, no hard chine, keel, flat run aft and rounded chine line. The Trojan Deltaconic has extremely wide chines, no keel, about a 12 degree deadrise at the stern and the entry is not as sharp. At least the east coast ones do. I don't know about the west coast. Just my observation.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lob...G1gmzYp8M:&usg=__unKWr7xhPYaN7VpePlkAftRtBdI=
 
Moonstruck said:
I don't get the similarity to a lobster hull. A true lobster boat hull has fine entry, no hard chine, keel, flat run aft and rounded chine line. The Trojan Deltaconic has extremely wide chines, no keel, about a 12 degree deadrise at the stern and the entry is not as sharp. At least the east coast ones do. I don't know about the west coast. Just my observation.

https://www.google.com/search?q=lob...G1gmzYp8M:&usg=__unKWr7xhPYaN7VpePlkAftRtBdI=
Click to expand...
Me either...at least the older hulls.

Are the new expresses that narrow with a major full length keel?
 
psneeld said:
Me either...at least the older hulls.

Are the new expresses that narrow with a major full length keel?
Click to expand...


Scott, the newer expresses are mostly down east styled boats. My boat for example is twin screw, no keel, fuller bow sections, and 16 degree V to the transom. I think they are really traditionally styled boats. As you can see I am a sucker for the traditional designs. Actually my Mainship Pilot was closer to a true down east hull. It had a fine entry, flatter run aft, single screw, and keel with protected prop. However the chine line was harder than a true lobster hull.
 
Neither lobster boats or the Trojan in question are the least bit narrow.

They may have been a time when lobster boats were narrow. I the late 40's and early 50's they were probably powered by flat head six cylinder engines of limited power. Those lobster boats were almost certianly narrow. But I've never seen one but I rarely see lobster boats of any kind and 100% of the ones I do see here in the PNW are pleasure boats.
 
psneeld said:
The older 10 and 14 meter Trojans had good reps...even with Pascoe I think ....
Click to expand...

There was any boat made in the entire history of mankind that David Pascoe actually liked? Huh. Learn something every day. Here I thought every boat ever made was a death trap in constant danger of imminent catastrophic failure waiting to pull us down to our watery graves with massive delamination, rotten coring and total engine failure in a haze of blue smoke, and where all the hulls were so badly designed that if we didn't sink like stones keel-first we'd all capsize like a harpooned whale doing its final bloody death roll as our children screamed as they drown in the cold water because we bought junky boats. His review of the hull quality on my good old, bargain-basement, 1983 still-going-strong-Carver made it sound like my family would sink to their deaths any moment like a scene from Titanic.
 
manyboats said:
Neither lobster boats or the Trojan in question are the least bit narrow.

They may have been a time when lobster boats were narrow. I the late 40's and early 50's they were probably powered by flat head six cylinder engines of limited power. Those lobster boats were almost certianly narrow. But I've never seen one but I rarely see lobster boats of any kind and 100% of the ones I do see here in the PNW are pleasure boats.
Click to expand...

Eric, I think they got wider to carry the enormous load of traps to put out. If you want to see a variation of the design check out the Chesapeake Bay deadrise boats. They're built to handle the nasty Chesapeake Bay chop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesa...e:Deadrise_workboat_capt_colby_stern_shot.JPG
 
Don I watched a vid on building the Deadrise boats. Mostly constructed by eye and most powered by V8 gas engines. These aren't narrow either. R Culler designed boats he called "File" planked boats. Very similar to the Deadrise boats.

I'll bet many lobster boats from the early 50's were narrow and about 32' long. Can you confirm?
 
manyboats said:
Don I watched a vid on building the Deadrise boats. Mostly constructed by eye and most powered by V8 gas engines. These aren't narrow either. R Culler designed boats he called "File" planked boats. Very similar to the Deadrise boats.

I'll bet many lobster boats from the early 50's were narrow and about 32' long. Can you confirm?
Click to expand...

Well, Eric, I don't have the data to confirm it, but I think that they have gotten more beam for load carrying capacity. The dead rise boats sometimes are loaded with a huge amount of crab traps. The broad beams are definitely for carrying capacity. I have seen the dead rise boats in the Thoroughfare of Tangier Island being loaded seemingly to the sky.
 
How's about something traditional, not designed to outrun storms?

 
This will sound like thread drift, but it will be tied back to Trojans.

Over 40 years ago when I had my Uniflite we were fishing a tournament off Morehead City, NC. A Trojan yacht dealer was put on my boat as a rules observer. We got wind of a white marlin bite going on up around Cape Hatteras. The day started off great, so we went north. A north wind that was not predicted built all day long. It was rough as hell when we pulled the lines in at 3 pm, and started back. The Uniflite fuel capacity with the belly tank option was slightly under 200 gal which would normally have been plenty. Because of the rough seas we were burning fuel at a prodigious rate. We figured the only way to stretch the fuel was to cut across Cape Lookout shoals. I knew a little unmarked channel through. We headed for that. We barley made it with fuel and our asses intact.

Now, to tie it back. When we were tied up at the dock, the Trojan dealer turns to me and says, "I don't have a boat on the lot that would hold up to what we went through today". The Uniflite didn't even have a rattle, but the cabin was a complete mess.
 
Don they were built well when I worked there in the early 70's.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top Bottom