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Old 11-17-2015, 06:07 PM   #21
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Me either...at least the older hulls.

Are the new expresses that narrow with a major full length keel?

Scott, the newer expresses are mostly down east styled boats. My boat for example is twin screw, no keel, fuller bow sections, and 16 degree V to the transom. I think they are really traditionally styled boats. As you can see I am a sucker for the traditional designs. Actually my Mainship Pilot was closer to a true down east hull. It had a fine entry, flatter run aft, single screw, and keel with protected prop. However the chine line was harder than a true lobster hull.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:14 PM   #22
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Neither lobster boats or the Trojan in question are the least bit narrow.

They may have been a time when lobster boats were narrow. I the late 40's and early 50's they were probably powered by flat head six cylinder engines of limited power. Those lobster boats were almost certianly narrow. But I've never seen one but I rarely see lobster boats of any kind and 100% of the ones I do see here in the PNW are pleasure boats.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:27 PM   #23
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The older 10 and 14 meter Trojans had good reps...even with Pascoe I think ....
There was any boat made in the entire history of mankind that David Pascoe actually liked? Huh. Learn something every day. Here I thought every boat ever made was a death trap in constant danger of imminent catastrophic failure waiting to pull us down to our watery graves with massive delamination, rotten coring and total engine failure in a haze of blue smoke, and where all the hulls were so badly designed that if we didn't sink like stones keel-first we'd all capsize like a harpooned whale doing its final bloody death roll as our children screamed as they drown in the cold water because we bought junky boats. His review of the hull quality on my good old, bargain-basement, 1983 still-going-strong-Carver made it sound like my family would sink to their deaths any moment like a scene from Titanic.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:31 PM   #24
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Neither lobster boats or the Trojan in question are the least bit narrow.

They may have been a time when lobster boats were narrow. I the late 40's and early 50's they were probably powered by flat head six cylinder engines of limited power. Those lobster boats were almost certianly narrow. But I've never seen one but I rarely see lobster boats of any kind and 100% of the ones I do see here in the PNW are pleasure boats.
Eric, I think they got wider to carry the enormous load of traps to put out. If you want to see a variation of the design check out the Chesapeake Bay deadrise boats. They're built to handle the nasty Chesapeake Bay chop.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chesap...stern_shot.JPG
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Old 11-17-2015, 07:43 PM   #25
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I thought Trojans were rubber boats!!!
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:02 PM   #26
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Don I watched a vid on building the Deadrise boats. Mostly constructed by eye and most powered by V8 gas engines. These aren't narrow either. R Culler designed boats he called "File" planked boats. Very similar to the Deadrise boats.

I'll bet many lobster boats from the early 50's were narrow and about 32' long. Can you confirm?
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:22 PM   #27
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Don I watched a vid on building the Deadrise boats. Mostly constructed by eye and most powered by V8 gas engines. These aren't narrow either. R Culler designed boats he called "File" planked boats. Very similar to the Deadrise boats.

I'll bet many lobster boats from the early 50's were narrow and about 32' long. Can you confirm?
Well, Eric, I don't have the data to confirm it, but I think that they have gotten more beam for load carrying capacity. The dead rise boats sometimes are loaded with a huge amount of crab traps. The broad beams are definitely for carrying capacity. I have seen the dead rise boats in the Thoroughfare of Tangier Island being loaded seemingly to the sky.
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Old 11-17-2015, 08:34 PM   #28
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How's about something traditional, not designed to outrun storms?

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Old 11-17-2015, 08:43 PM   #29
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This will sound like thread drift, but it will be tied back to Trojans.

Over 40 years ago when I had my Uniflite we were fishing a tournament off Morehead City, NC. A Trojan yacht dealer was put on my boat as a rules observer. We got wind of a white marlin bite going on up around Cape Hatteras. The day started off great, so we went north. A north wind that was not predicted built all day long. It was rough as hell when we pulled the lines in at 3 pm, and started back. The Uniflite fuel capacity with the belly tank option was slightly under 200 gal which would normally have been plenty. Because of the rough seas we were burning fuel at a prodigious rate. We figured the only way to stretch the fuel was to cut across Cape Lookout shoals. I knew a little unmarked channel through. We headed for that. We barley made it with fuel and our asses intact.

Now, to tie it back. When we were tied up at the dock, the Trojan dealer turns to me and says, "I don't have a boat on the lot that would hold up to what we went through today". The Uniflite didn't even have a rattle, but the cabin was a complete mess.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:09 PM   #30
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Don they were built well when I worked there in the early 70's.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:15 PM   #31
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The warped bottom was my basis for the comparison, should have known better than to compare it to a lobsterboat, it's a topic always sure to raise controversy.
Downeast Boat Forums has hosted some hot debate over what a lobsterboat really is, and having a warped bottom may be the only criteria shared by most all modern lobsterboats.
The bottom line is, If I had a 44' Trojan Express sitting in my yard and had to do a makeover on it, I would not even consider building it up as a trawler. (or a lobsterboat!)
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:39 PM   #32
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The warped bottom was my basis for the comparison, should have known better than to compare it to a lobsterboat, it's a topic always sure to raise controversy.
Downeast Boat Forums has hosted some hot debate over what a lobsterboat really is, and having a warped bottom may be the only criteria shared by most all modern lobsterboats.
The bottom line is, If I had a 44' Trojan Express sitting in my yard and had to do a makeover on it, I would not even consider building it up as a trawler. (or a lobsterboat!)
No controversy. Just a discussion of hull types. I had a good friend that had a 35' Duffy. It was close to a pure lobster boat hull. It was a good solid boat that handled chop very well. Not so good on following seas, but manageable. The problem I see with them as cruiser hulls is the bow section tapers in so sharply that there is little room for accommodations there. I was in discussion with Lee S. Wilbur about building a boat. I took the family up to SW Harbor to see and talk with them. There was just not enough room to get the space we needed.

While we were at Wilbur's he asked if he could borrow my 6' 5" son for a little while. They were fitting a boat for a tuna fighting chair. He figured it would fit my son, it would work for anyone. By the way, when he saw my two sons, he said that he understood the need for cabin space.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:44 PM   #33
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There was any boat made in the entire history of mankind that David Pascoe actually liked? .
I look at his as just opinions like anyone else. I really don't value them like many do. I think it's hard to maintain objectivity sometimes, but he tends to show his personal prejudices in his reviews more than I wish. To me, you judge a boat against it's goals and normal use. That's why I judge a boat like Bayliner very positively, but I don't hold it to the same standards I would Nordhavn. If a Nordhavn didn't feel safe crossing oceans then it would be a failure. On a Bayliner that would be a relative non issue.
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Old 11-17-2015, 09:50 PM   #34
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Don they were built well when I worked there in the early 70's.
Eric, my boat was one of the early ones out of the Swansboro plant. Uniflite was really trying to get boats out. Because we were fishing tournaments they really took care of us. It felt almost like being on a factory sponsored team. It we had a problem during a tournament, the plant was about 25 miles away. They would send parts and a crew to do the install at no charge. Someone from the factory would be on the dock checking on us when we returned every day. Now, where can you get that kind of service?
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:44 PM   #35
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Nearly 35 years ago I owned a Trojan 36 woodie in really nice condition. Awlgrip and top of line vanish etc. I cruised with several other Trojans, all gas models, including a 35 FRP, 38 tri cabin, 12 meter and 44 flush deck. We'd take enough trips together so that fuel burns and handling could easily be compared to other brands for bragging rights.

The cream of the crop for speed combined with fuel burn was our 36 woodie. It was lighter, narrower and would stay on plane at several mph less than the others. The fellow with the 12 meter traded off his Carver Mariner to get it. He loved the sex appeal of the 12 but it was so wide that fuel burn was not too good.

Our 36 (Crusader 383s) would go all day at around 18 knots and 2400 RPM burning about 16 gph combined. Wake was minimal in comparison to the other wider and heavier Trojans. We never strayed from the Mississippi and Illinois Rivers with it. Friends with Trojans did the loop on an annual basis for a few years and loved the speed and sea keeping combination. But alas, lack of sales neutered the brand and the nice run Trojan had.

For a DIYer there are still some shining fresh water examples around that could be brought up to current to yield an eventually very nice vessel. Especially where diesel range is not needed. The new large bore V8s are pretty nice and a bit more fuel friendly than those of 40 years ago.
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Old 11-18-2015, 03:47 AM   #36
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Down east boats had to increase beam to accommodate more powerful diesel engines that were becoming the norm. Longer runs, more traps and heavier engines needed more hull.
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Old 11-18-2015, 06:21 AM   #37
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My Grandparents had a planked Trojan for decades, from the late 60's. They lived on it up in the San Juan's/Gulf Islands for the summers of every year. I borrowed it on vacations. It was fast for its size. Twin gas V8's. They kept it showroom. Loved the all wood boats back then. Its sea keeping in following seas was dangerous. my Grandparents were fair weather boaters and the boat was great for that. Fast when needed or economical if run thoughtful. It was nice, although the sea keeping hull of a good trawler is more my taste. Trojans were somewhat weight sensitive and were built as the pleasure boat with speed capability. Trawlers can be loaded down and their performance still be enjoyed considering their hull mission. Liked the Trojan, but loved trawlers. And still do - near 50 years later. Trawlers are timeless.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:22 PM   #38
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Lots of great information. What is meant by "a warped bottom"? Pictures or diagram?
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:33 PM   #39
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Lots of great information. What is meant by "a warped bottom"? Pictures or diagram?
Basically how the hull transitions from the sharper entry of the bow to the straighter run aft. I just made that up, but it describes my thinking. You know, kind of warped.
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Old 11-18-2015, 04:53 PM   #40
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Warped ..... it's the warped bottom.

If you had a straight run aft and constant deadrise the bottom would not be warped. But if one changes the deadrise as you go aft (usually as in less DR) the bottom gets a twisted shape. This twist is what is refered to as a warped bottom.

Prior to 1965 or so most all "V" bottom boats were warped. The warped bottoms ran more efficiently and w less squat or more level. So warped bottoms are very common.
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