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Old 03-09-2013, 02:58 PM   #1
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Willard Hull Coring

I just had a vessel surveyed and the percussion inspection indicated either a core separation or void. I thought the hull was uncored? The construction data says the hull is a solid fiberglass lay up and the superstructure has end grain balsa in all horizontal laminations and synthetic coring in all vertical ones. The suspect area is in the outer hull on the starboard side mostly above the deck and below the cap rail just behind the pilothouse door. Opinions?
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #2
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Willard with a cored hull... I don't think so. What length / model?
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Old 03-09-2013, 03:53 PM   #3
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It's a 1999 Pilothouse, 30 footer. The other term the surveyor used was "a possible non-bonding event during layup". I was/am pretty sure the hull isn't cored. The exterior superstructure is molded as well as parts of the interior, and then finished over with teak and such over the fiberglass. The potential flaw is above the waterline and was deemed non-structural.
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Old 03-09-2013, 05:04 PM   #4
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Boat Hulls - Cores and Structural Issues: Online Articles by David Pascoe, Marine Surveyor
Check the online articles on core materials
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Old 03-09-2013, 07:48 PM   #5
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I own a W30 and am familiar w Willard's. No cored Willard hulls that I know of.

My second thought was a big blister. But they are usually below the W/L. Perhaps the boat was hit there, damaged and repaired .. perhaps by an owner??

How could a surveyor not know what he's look'in at? Maybe he's a welder or a dishwasher.

What boat is this?
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Old 03-09-2013, 08:21 PM   #6
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It's pretty new. It's well above waterline, the engine only has 50 hours on it and it has been on the hard almost all of it's life. One of those dreams that didn't pan out for the owner. The suspicion was stated in the survey by percussing the hull with a hammer, nothing visible but a different sound on that part of the hull. Surveyors always find "something" and even sitting on the hard for a dozen years will "wear" some things out. Final stages of negotiating for the sale...
I have been shoeing horses for 20 years, and sometimes I still wonder what I'm looking at :-)
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Old 03-09-2013, 09:45 PM   #7
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my understanding is the Willard hulls are non cored, and about as strong as a cast iron bath tub, in fact there is a resemblance.........
HOLLYWOOD
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Old 03-09-2013, 11:37 PM   #8
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Yes our stern does look a bit like a bathtub. And our hulls look much like a whale. I always leave my engine running so the whales can tell it's not a relative of theirs. But for whatever reason a big Humpback got right in front of us (broadside) and stopped Willy in about 2'. The Willard hull was strong enough for that.
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:16 AM   #9
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Were you present at survey? If not, have you and the surveyor had a good chat yet,would revisiting the boat with the surveyor help with your well justified concerns? It is a worry if he does not know the hull composition.
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Old 03-10-2013, 12:28 PM   #10
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Doug that questionable spot on the hull may be a cover-up of a modification made by a previous owner. Look at the scupper Chris is working on here w Willy. Scuppers are not standard on W30s. Then look at the 2nd photo (pardon my fenders) and see the protruding bolt heads just below the gunnel in the green. That was a modification that was taken out and returned to basic original. These are old boats usually w several owners. We're the fifth for Willy.

If the boat you're looking at is in Puget Sound and your'e up north I could be persuaded to take a look at it for you. Personally it dosn't sound like anything I'd worry about. Just take it into consideration w all the other questionable elements of this boat (being an old boat there are many) and feed it into your "go - no go" formula.

Is this that Horizon in Everett for $29K?

Check this really nice W30 out.
http://pacificmotorboat.com/willardb...her-knot-again
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Old 03-10-2013, 01:39 PM   #11
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This is a Virginia boat, so I am looking at transport across the country to get to Anacortes. I hope to be there for the Willard Owners Group rally the beginning of May. The boatyard I am delivering to is about a half mile from the harbor with the rally. It hasn't been modified at all, it hasn't hardly been used at all. It's one of the last four 30' boats Willard turned out and the owner is finally coming to awareness that he isn't going to actually use it. I will be looking at all the modifications to the rest of the Willard fleet and considering what I want to do to my "blank slate" boat. It doesn't even have any electronics except a VHF and a sounder. Fun!
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Old 03-10-2013, 05:55 PM   #12
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The surveyor knew the construction of the hull and superstructure, as the survey notes both. My question about coring was mis-stated as the survey noted a void or non-bonding event by percussing (not very reliable) the hull with a plastic hammer. I thought the Willard hulls were all laid up in one single process to a Mil-Spec that would make a non-bonding event very unlikely or impossible to achieve.
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Old 09-07-2014, 03:47 PM   #13
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Sooo.... you bought her. How is she? Did you make the rally? I would look inside the boat for a loose bulkhead to hull joint, or a loose deck beam glass socket. Sounds like a rap of something loose inside can mimic the stated results.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:06 PM   #14
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I am beyond thrilled with the boat! As for any issues with the glass I have had no issues and don't expect to find any related to the "percussing" the surveyor did. I didn't close until after the rally, much to my disappointment. All else went well, Anacortes is a nice place to hang out for a while and the harbor had bicycles for loan so I wasn't walking from North Harbor Diesel into town for West Marine and the grocery store. The trip up was a red letter success story, caught a perfect weather system that lasted the whole trip North and into Prince Wiliam Sound.
I put about 550 hours on the Hobbs last year, and it looks like I will top that this year. I came in off the water last night and am heading back down to Homer today to get a couple of days of Halibut fishing in before it's over and I haul out for the winter. Still a half a million projects to work on, but it keeps your mind busy and I am greatly enjoying "making her mine".
I was unable to replicate whatever noise the surveyor was getting when he whacked my boat with a hammer, it sounds solid to me :-) It is not an issue unless it becomes an issue...
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:47 PM   #15
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AKDoug,
Glad you had a good year w your new boat. Our old boat took most of the summer getting her half way into acceptable shape. Working on the fuel system now and have found quite a few old stringy pieces of Teflon tape thread sealant here and there in the system. I'm replacing all the hoses except in the return plumbing. Much else done like replacing the sea water intake valve and the intermediate prop shaft bearing. Took out and plugged/repaired a hole where a through hull valve had been for years. Considered it a hazard.

Here's Willy a few days ago. Bottom is ready for paint. Prop painted w Petitt Barnacle Buster, removed the remote oil filter, rebuilt the hyd rudder cyl and other things.

"It is not an issue unless it becomes an issue..."
Some things have to be dealt w that way.
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Old 09-08-2014, 01:48 PM   #16
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Good on ya! Nice to hear a success story.

I passed a vega 'Baco' yesterday in the Hudson River. I called them up to chat. She is a 1966 Willard. Nice shape. Re engined. Classy boat.

Enjoy yours.
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Old 09-09-2014, 07:30 AM   #17
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Beautiful shape Willy!
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Old 12-23-2014, 05:52 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKDoug View Post
I just had a vessel surveyed and the percussion inspection indicated either a core separation or void. I thought the hull was uncored? The construction data says the hull is a solid fiberglass lay up and the superstructure has end grain balsa in all horizontal laminations and synthetic coring in all vertical ones. The suspect area is in the outer hull on the starboard side mostly above the deck and below the cap rail just behind the pilothouse door. Opinions?
I had a core sample done for commercial purposes.
Here is the report for my Willard UB40
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Old 12-23-2014, 09:03 PM   #19
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Many "solid" glass hulls have a band of core in the gunnels (gunwhales) above deck level, largely to make the hull a bit thicker to ease the fitting of hawse pipes etc. The designed progression of the laminate schedule also tends to make this the thinnest area of the hull and a bit of core makes it look more substantial. This seems to match the OP's description of where the issue is. If this is the case, It's still commonly referred to as a solid glass hull. I have owned two such boats and surveyed dozens with this feature although I don't know about the Willard, it's been a long time since I surveyed one.
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Old 12-23-2014, 10:51 PM   #20
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The core sample information doesn't tell me anything, really. Can you break down what the results of the core sample mean to a lay person? I understand the number of layers of glass in the lay up, but see no "result" in say a percentage from or of the quality of the laminate layup. Was the core from a section of the hull that percussed poorly or is it a random core taken for the sample. I would like to know more.
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