Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 10-22-2017, 10:41 AM   #1
Newbie
 
City: citrus springs
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 2
single vs twin

looking at mainship 34 pilot, like the twin engine because of its shallow draft,but told it does not have enough room for working on engines and they will charge considerably more to work on engines because of this, any experiences and comments would be appreciated thanks mark
penmarfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 10:52 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
David Rive's Avatar
 
City: Markham
Vessel Name: currently boatless
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 280
Hello. Having owned both types - an Ocean Alexander 38 with twin Lehmans, and now an AT-34 with a single Cummins, I am a strong believer in the single engine scenario.
- one half the maintenance cost
- easier access to both sides of a single engine
There is a reason that most commercial fishing vessels are singles.

BUT ... you better get your maintenance right. Good luck.

David
David Rive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 11:15 AM   #3
Valued Technical Contributor
 
DavidM's Avatar
 
City: Litchfield, Ct
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 6,775
When I was looking for our Pilot 34 some years ago, I had the opportunity to take a hard look at one with twin Yanmar 4LHs. I do all of my own diesel engine maintenance and maybe I was spoiled by the spacious engine room of our prior single engine Mainship 34T.

The 34T has a beam of 14' which is abnormally wide for that length. But it is the only boat that I would be comfortable working on the twin engine version.

So when I looked at the Pilot 34 twin with its 12' beam, I said no way am I going to be able to crawl over and around those engines to get to the outboard stuff. The Pilot 34 has a very large engine hatch where the entire floor of the aft cabin swings up to provide access. But there is all of the beam port and starboard underneath the settees that is still covered. You have to lay on the twin and reach down to work on anything outboard, which since engines aren't made in left and right hand versions is everything. Only the stuff in the front of the engine- the belts and the coolant pump is fairly easy to reach because you can crawl up the middle to get to it.

But if you just open your checkbook for engine maintenance, then go for it.

David
DavidM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 11:33 AM   #4
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
If I could have a single QSM11 at 660hp instead of my 2 6BTAs at 330 per....I would take that single in a heartbeat....
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 12:10 PM   #5
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Baker View Post
If I could have a single QSM11 at 660hp instead of my 2 6BTAs at 330 per....I would take that single in a heartbeat....
Baker
What would estimate the cost of normally planing vessel with a single in the 40 foot range? That would be a real nice vessel like an MJM; except for specialty builds few others come to mind.

As far as double the maintenance cost, nope. Two engines at say 220 HP vs one at 400? Been there done that. But all prejudices aside, it really comes down to what boat do you want. ATs, NTs or smaller Nordhavns don't come with twins and Flemings, SeaRays, Carvers or Outer Reefs don't come with singles.

We have an acquaintance who owns an N60 with twins. He has smaller twins vs a normally installed larger single with a get home. And - gasp - he has wet exhaust!

Different strokes.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 12:22 PM   #6
TF Site Team/Forum Founder
 
Baker's Avatar
 
City: League City, Tx
Vessel Name: Floatsome & Jetsome
Vessel Model: Meridian 411
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 7,332
HAHAHA!!!!! I was being somewhat facetious. But my purely theoretical first choice in boat configurations would be a single with a bow thruster. Handling it is simple. And maintaining it is simpler....regardless of cost.
__________________
Prairie 29...Perkins 4236...Sold
Mainship Pilot 30...Yanmar 4LHA-STP...Sold
Carver 356...T-Cummins 330B...Sold
Meridian 411...T-Cummins 450C
Baker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 12:39 PM   #7
Guru
 
Donna's Avatar
 
City: Palm Coast
Vessel Name: Southerly
Vessel Model: 1986 Marine Trader 36' Sundeck
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1,231
On a single, just make sure it has at least a bow thruster. I have a single and wouldn't be able to dock it in the wind without my thruster.
Donna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2017, 12:55 PM   #8
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Ft Pierce
Vessel Name: Sold
Vessel Model: Was an Albin/PSN 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 28,119
I hate not having the option of twins....

But, this year doing the dampner plate replacement, head gasket and then engine alignment....

Whew, not sure I would have had the patience and energy to do 2 at a time. Sure stagger them, but then there is economy of effort with doing 2 at once...but mine was easy due to room....maybe with twins the lack of room would have killed me. Especially with all the other maintenance.

So, depending on engine room access and the amount of maintenance you do or have to pay for could be a factor.
psneeld is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:17 AM   #9
Senior Member
 
City: tallahassee
Vessel Model: 1979 Mainship 34
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 415
My personal opinion is that a bow thruster on a single Mainship 34 is nice but not needed in all but the most inclement weather.

Sure I have to do a go around every once in awhile but i'm nothing special, fight river current, back in, single hand the boat most of the time, etc. Gets easier every time.

I will say that when the wind is whipping i'll stay at the dock but I would either way.
Mrwesson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:43 AM   #10
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,738
David Rive wrote;
“There is a reason that most commercial fishing vessels are singles.”

And do they have a lot more knowledge and experience than we do? Is this what you don’t say but imply?

They also use oil stoves and anchors most of us wouldn’t consider buying. I’ve never seen a modern anchor on a fish boat. They put tar on their decks, run their engines hard and have hydraulic reel anchor winches. And those single engined fish boats run in groups of several to many other fishermen as they do need a tow at times.
They do lots of things we yachties almost never do. So emulating them may not a good idea .. or desirable.
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 10:06 AM   #11
Guru
 
City: Carefree, Arizona
Vessel Name: sunchaser V
Vessel Model: DeFever 48 (sold)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 10,179
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomad Willy View Post
David Rive wrote;
“There is a reason that most commercial fishing vessels are singles.”

And do they have a lot more knowledge and experience than we do? Is this what you don’t say but imply?

They also use oil stoves and anchors most of us wouldn’t consider buying. I’ve never seen a modern anchor on a fish boat. They put tar on their decks, run their engines hard and have hydraulic reel anchor winches. And those single engined fish boats run in groups of several to many other fishermen as they do need a tow at times.
They do lots of things we yachties almost never do. So emulating them may not a good idea .. or desirable.
You nailed it Eric.
sunchaser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 08:54 PM   #12
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 18,738
Thanks sunchaser,
The fishermen have other agendas and operate in different environments.
Our yachts are owned and piloted by individuals many of whom are motivated to have the very best. Many threads here are started in search of the best of this or that. Or the best methods but industry is only interested in getting the job done .. most of the time. A fisherman is OK with dragging anchor at times as long as they almost never drag into the beach. Fishermen get buy w tried and proven equipment and methods that have worked over time. Just good enough to get by. They don’t experiment or research gear they just observe what the older fishermen are doing or using. The Forfjord anchor is a good example. Been around for a long time and lots of old fishermen have them. And young fishermen lust for them but they are a very low performance anchor.
Fishermen are motivated to catch fish. Becoming a skilled boater in the process is not a high priority. Catching fish is. When fishermen come down to the harbor to work on their boat they do work .. and diligently so but most often the work in on the fishing gear, not the boat itself. Trolling gerties, hydraulic systems that control fishing gear, nets ect ect. They do work on boats when they have to. When it effects their bottom line.
I’m not enough of a fisherman to elaborate on most of fishermens activitys but a twin screw boat is obvious not very ideal as nets and trolling lines are much less likely to be fouled in a deep centrally located propeller. I could attempt to go on w the cost of propulsion ect but I’m not a fisherman. There are probably many reasons for fish boats and other commercial boats to have a single screw.
But IMO we should be asking why have twins as twins cost considerably more money. Twins must be better. Many people are paying for it.

Edit;
Why isn’t this thread under Power Systems?
__________________
Eric

North Western Washington State USA
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:06 PM   #13
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine,Fl
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,789
Yup,single or twin. they are the best! Glad I chose wisely...
__________________
Jack ...Chicken of the sea! Been offshore 3 miles once
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:06 PM   #14
Guru
 
Northern Spy's Avatar
 
City: Powell River, BC
Vessel Name: Northern Spy
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 26
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 4,073
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunchaser View Post
You nailed it Eric.


Boat is to fisherman as tractor is to farmer.
Northern Spy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:16 PM   #15
Guru
 
Sailor of Fortune's Avatar
 
City: St Augustine,Fl
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 3,789
Not sure I agree with a lot of Erics observations. Bering sea crab boats went from all single screw to predominantly twin screw. Bristol bay boats went from single screw to twin jet powered rigs. To say they don't experiment and research is not what Ive seen.Regional conditions,competition drive trends.
__________________
Jack ...Chicken of the sea! Been offshore 3 miles once
Sailor of Fortune is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-17-2017, 09:21 PM   #16
Guru
 
BruceK's Avatar
 
City: Sydney
Vessel Name: Sojourn
Vessel Model: Integrity 386
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 13,293
Undoubtedly true, Eric and Tom, but the commercial operators are telling us something. Their object is to make $, and they can`t do that if the boat is not operable, so depending on tolerating acceptable limits on operation, what ever they do gets their boats working, presumably economically.
We have different needs and aims,I favour the maneuverability of twins over sheer $, and would not put up with the boat looking like a worksite. It`s a bit like learning from motor sport car developments, their are things to pick up, but plenty that is no practical use.
If I can get, and maintain and manage twins, I would. I`ve owned a single, it had no thrusters,and I managed. But I definitely enjoyed the transition to twins. Maybe a single with thrusters both ends would change my mind, I probably need to take a ride on one, preferably not with the man trying to sell it to me.
__________________
BruceK
2005 Integrity 386 "Sojourn"
Sydney Australia
BruceK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2017, 05:55 AM   #17
Guru
 
North Baltic sea's Avatar
 
Vessel Model: Nordic Tug 37
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,107
Hi,


Twins or single?


I need one for me and I'm fine if you like twins ...





NBs
North Baltic sea is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


» Trawler Port Captains
Port Captains are TF volunteers who can serve as local guides or assist with local arrangements and information. Search below to locate Port Captains near your destination. To learn more about this program read here: TF Port Captain Program





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012