Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
 
Old 04-26-2012, 11:06 PM   #61
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
We chartered a single engine GB36 before buying our own, much older GB36. The charter boat had a bow thruster, and we were far more inexperienced at this kind of boating then than we are now. But despite the inexperience we did everything we wanted to do with that single/bow thruster combination. In fact we managed to hold ourselves off a lee concrete float in a strong wind with the right (fortunately, it could have gone the other way) combination and coordination of prop thrust, rudder, and thruster. The experiences with that boat plus all the single engine canal boats we've run in the UK has convinced me beyond a shaddow of a doubt that anything you can accomplish maneuvering-wise in a twin you can accomplish in a single.

Redundancy. Well, it's pretty hard for me to make a big case about how having a second engine in a boat is the only way to ensure safety when I fly airplanes with only one engine (and never had one completely fail on me). When we went shopping for a GB of our own we didn't care if what we came up with was a single or a twin. It happened to be a twin. And I found I like running multiple engines and my wife feels more confident with multiple engines so there it is.

But all of the boats I consider my "favorite" boats are single engine boats. Lobster boats, classic PNW salmon trollers, the now-extinct aku boats--- all singles. I'd love to have any one of them if I had the time and money to keep them up properly. And I suspect that if I had one with an engine in good shape and I had the time and knowledge to keep it that way I would never suffer an engine failure. (None of the four engine shutdowns we have experienced in our GB had anything to do with the actual engines).

So our reasons for prefering a twin in the kind of cruiser we have are all about our individual preferences, some if not all of which are not at all logical if one takes a purely objective view of it.
__________________
Advertisement

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:05 AM   #62
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Good example of incorrect stuff.

"Bill Naugle adds, "Maintenance and cost are pretty much doubled. If you have a specific horsepower requirement for a given hull, it doesn't really matter whether you power with two small diesels or one bigger diesel-the fuel consumed is pretty much the same (the smaller engines probably use a bit more). But all the other costs are doubled."
Two small oil filters will cost about the same as one large.
Two small head gaskets will cost about the same as one large.
Oil changes? Big engine takes 14 quarts of oil small takes 7.
This argument just dos'nt hold water.
Yeah.... those guys from diesel engine companies are just out of touch.

My 135 hp lehman takes 14 qts oil and 6 dollar filters my 320 hp 3208's took 16 qts of oil and 9 dollar filters.... maybe these are out of the norm?

Everything doesn't double as you go up in hp unless you span certain ranges of horsepower designs. Sure there can be some example where they do...but then there's examples where the double hp engine is exactly the same block using virtually the same oil pan, filters, head gaskets...maybe just a bit bigger here and there (especially cooling) but not double.

Again my main point was always about efficiency where side by side tests of same model boats showed the single to be slightly more efficient...apples to apples?...maybe not but as close as the average boater is going to get without building a custom boat.
__________________

psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 09:14 AM   #63
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
So, what I am walking away with from this arguement is "Which is better for what reason" If this is the case, one should not have to justify their personal reasons for wanting one over the other.
Which is better from an efficiency point of view? A Single
Which is better from an initial cost and maintenance cost point of view? A single
Which is better from a protected prop point of view? A single
Which is better from a "I feel more secure" point of veiw? Twins.
Which is better from an easier to maneuver in tight areas point of view? Twins
Which is better because "I just like them" point of view? Both

Since I am trying to sell my sailboat and buy a trawler, this info is very useful to me.
Probably the most useful I have found on here so far.

Please correct me where I am wrong on the above and also keep the discussuions going. Each argument appears to be valid depending on your perspective.
Sometimes, "Which is better" gets confused with "Which I prefer" arguments.
For the unititiated, like myself, I see many trying to justy their personal preference by saying it is better rather than I like it better for the following reasons. This happens in sailing forums, woodworking forums and just about every forum.
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 09:22 AM   #64
Guru
 
psneeld's Avatar
 
City: Avalon, NJ
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Freedom
Vessel Model: Albin 40
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 15,883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
So, what I am walking away with from this arguement is "Which is better for what reason" If this is the case, one should not have to justify their personal reasons for wanting one over the other.
Which is better from an efficiency point of view? A Single
Which is better from an initial cost and maintenance cost point of view? A single
Which is better from a protected prop point of view? A single
Which is better from a "I feel more secure" point of veiw? Twins.
Which is better from an easier to maneuver in tight areas point of view? Twins
Which is better because "I just like them" point of view? Both

Since I am trying to sell my sailboat and buy a trawler, this info is very useful to me.
Probably the most useful I have found on here so far.

Please correct me where I am wrong on the above and also keep the discussuions going. Each argument appears to be valid depending on your perspective.
Sometimes, "Which is better" gets confused with "Which I prefer" arguments.
For the unititiated, like myself, I see many trying to justy their personal preference by saying it is better rather than I like it better for the following reasons. This happens in sailing forums, woodworking forums and just about every forum.
Like many things in life...it's how it's worded sometimes,

Using the word better invokes personal feelings more than if it were titled "advantages/disadvantages of singles and twins"...to me the latter usually frames the responses with more facts, less feelings.

Some people don't like facts...they just like what you like because they trust you and could care less about how you got to your point of view...I know LOTs of that kind....
psneeld is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 09:49 AM   #65
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
Regardless of how this thread plays out, I have enjoyed it and learned much. With 64 responses, it is quite a popular thread.
I like to watch both FOX and MSNBC news. The far left and the far right. Somehow, I can come close to finding the real truth in the middle of the 2, with the operative word being 'close'.
I hope this thread continues to thrive.
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 12:37 PM   #66
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,711
Tony,
I do the same w Fox, CNN and MSNBC.

Do'nt forget we've made many more than 64 posts in the past on this issue so look in the archives if you want more on this topic.

Tony wrote:
"I can come close to finding the real truth in the middle"
Therein lies the danger of compromise and committee designed things. But in the case of a wider range of news input we should get a better scope and be more able to seek and find reality or truth.
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 01:02 PM   #67
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
If you come up to Alaska there is no Boat US coverage in this state.

Who ya gonna call?

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 02:16 PM   #68
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
Which is better from an easier to maneuver in tight areas point of view? Twins
Mmmmm...... no. Carey of this forum has a single engine lobsterboat. We have boated in their company a lot. His boat has a bow thruster but I have rarely seen him use it. But he can accomplish everything with his one engine and rudder than we can with our two engines and rudders. The techniques are sometimes different. Where I can pivot the boat by using opposing thrust and the rudders Carey needs to back and fill. But the end result is that his boat pivots around just like ours.

He uses his bow thruster when it will make a maneuver faster, safer, or more precise but he doesn't depend on it at all.

A number of years ago we watched a single engine Fraser River tug maneuver a long floating dock/breakwater into position in Ganges harbor on Saltspring Island. The tug was powered by a 12V-71 and was about fifty feet long or so. No bow thruster. But the skipper of that tug maneuvered it around in the cramped confines of the marina like a sports car. I doubt the operators of most recreational twin engine boats could have come close to the precision and complexity of his maneuvers as he zipped around pushing first one end and one side of that long dock and then the other. It was amazing to watch.

So in my opinion there is no inherent maneuvering advantage of a twin over a single or a single over a twin. I wouldn't even say a twin is easier to maneuver because I have seen the owners of twins make a huge bollocks of trying to maneuver because they simply didn't get how to use the engines and shifters to accomplish what they wanted to accomplish.

So it all comes down to what you have. A good single engine skipper will accomplish everything a good twin engine skipper can accomplish, and it will seem every bit as easy to the single engine guy as it does to the twin engine guy.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 02:26 PM   #69
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
I boated a long time with outboards and out drives.

Totally different.

It took me a while to learn to drive a single screw.

I can do just about anything a twin can do. Shift and throttle. Prop wash over the rudder and what ever it's called with the side thrust of the prop.

Not always sure of the names of things. I just know how they effect the boat.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 03:12 PM   #70
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
My statement "Which is better from an easier to maneuver in tight areas point of view? Twins" is a statement that I will defend to my death. Just because someone can do something does not mean it is easier.

" A good single engine skipper will accomplish everything a good twin engine skipper can accomplish, and it will seem every bit as easy to the single engine guy as it does to the twin engine guy."

Can you name a boat with a single screw non-movable shaft/prop that can turn on its own axis as simply as crossing the shift/throttles on a twin screw.

I think the person you referenced "He uses his bow thruster when it will make a maneuver faster, safer, or more precise but he doesn't depend on it at all." is doing this also because it is 'easier', otherwise he wouldnt be using the bow thruster at all.

I have a 22,000 lb sailboat witha full keel - which means it was not designed for turning - with only a 37 HP diesel. So trust me, I can handle a single engine quite well. I have also handled both pleasure craft and commercial vessels from single screw to up to a 6 screws so I do know the difference.
I have also had to get into real tight slips with a crosswind on my sailboats and I know what a single and a twin can do. Just because I can do it, does not mean it is easier.

Just for the record, in my quest for a trawler, I would prefer a single screw. This is for various reasons and one of them is NOT because they maneuver as easily as a twin.
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 03:21 PM   #71
Guru
 
skipperdude's Avatar
 
City: Whittier AK
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Apache II
Vessel Model: 1974 Donald Jones
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,147
I for one never said it was easy. It's not. You really have to have practice.

On an average weekend, unless I have a trip planned. I am in and out of my slip 4 or 5 times.

Do something often enough you get good at it.

SD
__________________
If you can't repair it maybe it shouldn't be on the boat
skipperdude is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 03:53 PM   #72
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
My statement "Which is better from an easier to maneuver in tight areas point of view? Twins" is a statement that I will defend to my death. Just because someone can do something does not mean it is easier.
Sorry, but I think that's a very inexperienced assumption, at least as applied to powerboats. I've run both singles and twins, here and in Europe, and as far as I'm concerned it's six of one half dozen of the other. The techniques are different, the end results are the same, and once you have mastered the techniques required be each one, they are both equally easy in my experience and opinion.

Quote:
" A good single engine skipper will accomplish everything a good twin engine skipper can accomplish, and it will seem every bit as easy to the single engine guy as it does to the twin engine guy."

Can you name a boat with a single screw non-movable shaft/prop that can turn on its own axis as simply as crossing the shift/throttles on a twin screw.
Sure, every one of them if we're talking about powerboats. A good single engine skipper can make a boat pivot on its axis using inertia, thrust, and rudder. I've done it a bazillion times with single-engine canal boats in the UK. Boat stays right where it is and simply pivots around its center. Is it as simple as crossing the shifters? Absolutely. Does it require more manipulation of the shifter? Yes, but I've not run a boat yet where the shifter was any effort at all to move.

Now if you want to compare a twin engine boat to a single engine boat with a direct reversing engine where you have to stop it and then start it in the opposite direction for reverse, I'll agree with you. The twin is easier. Although there is a boat in our marina that has a direct reversing engine and the few times I've seen it come into its slip it doesn't appear to be much more of a hassle than anything else. But they've got a good crew who knows what they're doing.

Many boaters-- even single engine boaters--- don't have a clue how to use intertia effectively, so when they back and fill they actually move forwards and backwards. If you understand how intertia plays into the formula and how to use it effectively, you can pivot a single engine boat on its center with the boat going nowhere other than where the wind or current might carry it as it's pivoting. I've done it with 60' long canal boats steered with a tiller and the rudder hanging off the stern and I've done it with a 36' Grand Banks with a wheel and the rudder tucked back under the stern. Same principle, same result. And once you understand it and have a feel for it in the specific boat you're driving it is every bit as easy, intuitive, and as much a no-brainer to do as crossing the shifters in a twin.

As far as I'm concerned, people who think a twin is easier to maneuver still have a lot to learn about driving a single-engine boat. Totally different techniques in some cases, no question. But if you know the techniques, understand the forces at work and how to use them, you get the exact same results and it's just as easy in either case.

Go to Maine or PEI and watch the lobstermen maneuver their single-engine boats, which don't have thrusters, around the docks on a windy day and you'll see a better and more precise job of maneuvering than you'll see most recreational twin engine boat drivers able to do on a dead calm day. Same thing out here. Watch the commercial seiners, crabbers, gillnetters, and longliners maneuver to the ice dock or the processor's pier. These are all single engine boats with no thrusters and their helmsmen put them exactly where they want them with a minimum of fuss and thy usually do it while carrying on a shouted conversation with someone on shore about something else.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 04:08 PM   #73
Guru
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
City: Joe Wheeler State Park, Al
Country: Cruising/Live-Aboard USA
Vessel Name: Serenity
Vessel Model: Mainship 36 Dual Cabin -1986
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
Steering a single screw.....
What took the longest to finally sink in was that if you fight the wind or the current, you will always lose. The other thing about a single screw is the "paddle wheel effect". That is when a spinning prop, say clockwise in forward wants to dig in sideways and pull the boat stern to stbd. and makes the bow tend to point to port. In effect making a left turn - all of the time. That is why it is easier to make left turns than to make right turns. In reverse, well - that reverses also. With the counter-rotation of the prop, the prop want to paddle wheel to the left (port side) and spin the bow to the right. That is why when you back out of a slip, your stern always goes to port. With low powered sailboats, backing (almost) straight out requires some speed to be built up before the rudder has any real effect. Scarey at times when there isn't much room behind you. Anyway, the same principles apply with going into a slip.
Another thing i learned was that if you have to make a tight turn at a low speed, turn you wheel and blast full throttle for about a second, then back completely off. If you arent turning sharp enough, try it again. What is happening here is that the short burst blasts the water against you rudder and pushes the boat around, however, the burst dont last long enough to give you any forward movement to worry about.
Once I figured this out and learned to work with it, everything became easier.
__________________
Cruising the Eastern U.S. Inland Waterways and Gulf Coast. Presently on the ICW in Louisiana and heading Back to Texas.
Tony B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 04:39 PM   #74
Guru
 
Nomad Willy's Avatar
 
City: Concrete Washington State
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Willy
Vessel Model: Willard Nomad 30'
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,711
Professionals are at the helm so much they can do anything you can do w a single screw that is possible to do w a single screw but weekend warriors just do'nt have the time at the helm. You have to practice a lot at everything that can be done to be good at it and most of us just do'nt get the practice.

However things more complicated are almost always more difficult so I would think a twin screw boat w 2 throttles and 2 shift levers would be much more challenging for trawler skippers than the single lever versions. I've never operated a twin screw boat but just being able to back straight would be a big blessing at times. There are times w a single screw that it may be impossible to back straight. But to say a single screw is almost as good at maneuvering as a twin is way off the mark. Sorry Marin.
Nomad Willy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 06:52 PM   #75
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Single-engined boat operators should not apologize for using bow thrusters anymore than dual-engined boat operators using different speeds/directions with their engines during close maneuvers.
__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:14 PM   #76
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B;
The other thing about a single screw is the "paddle wheel effect". That is when a spinning prop, say clockwise in forward wants to dig in sideways and pull the boat stern to stbd. and makes the bow tend to point to port.
It's called propwalk and if the hull is designed properly and the powertrain installation is correct and the rudder is trimmed correctly the effect will be negligable in forward. The boat will-- or should--- track dead straight. If it doesn't there is something wrong with the hull design, the powertrain installation, or the rudder trim. The single engine GB we charterd before buying our own boat tracked straight as an arrow in forward.

Single engine GBs use a left-hand prop, same as the prop used on the port shaft of a twin engine GB. Turning counterclockwise (moving water aft) a left hand prop will propwalk to port and so take the stern with it to port. But in the GB going forward the boat tracked dead straight with no tendency to veer to port. So the propwalk was negated by the hull design, the powertrain installation, the rudder trim or some combination of these.

Backing was another matter, and the stern walked to starboard given no current or wind effect. Knowing this, one can use it to their advantage in backing and maneuvering a single-engine boat.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:27 PM   #77
Master and Commander
 
markpierce's Avatar
 
City: Vallejo CA
Country: USA
Vessel Name: Carquinez Coot
Vessel Model: 2011 Seahorse Marine Coot hull #6
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 10,262
Assuming my rudder indicator is properly calibrated/adjusted, straight-ahead forward requires a 3-degree rudder to port (which the steering system will hold without hand on the wheel) as the boat will go to starboard with a "straight" rudder setting. In reverse, the boat goes to starboard. Obviously, it has a counter-clockwise/left-hand propeller.

__________________
Kar-KEEN-ez Koot
markpierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:28 PM   #78
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post
Professionals are at the helm so much they can do anything you can do w a single screw that is possible to do w a single screw but weekend warriors just do'nt have the time at the helm. You have to practice a lot at everything that can be done to be good at it and most of us just do'nt get the .... But to say a single screw is almost as good at maneuvering as a twin is way off the mark. Sorry Marin.
We are talking about a blanket statement that was made that states that twin engine boats are easier to maneuver than single engine boats, period. As far as Im concerned that is a totally incorrect statement. A wannabe recreational boater may have trouble untying his boat let alone maneuver it no matter how many engines it has. So of course an inexperienced or inept boater might have trouble maneuvering a single-engine boat where a twin might be easier for him to comprehend.

But as a general statement that a single is harder to maneuver than a twin, that's just bollocks. A zillion GOOD single engine drivers prove that every day all over the world.

If Tony B can't maneuver a single engine cruiser to to save his life that doesn't prove a single is harder than a twin. All it proves is that Tony can't handle a single very well. Give that same boat to a PEI lobsterman and once he gets the feel of it he'll be zipping all over with it and putting it exactly where he wants it every time, all the time.

If you're going to make a blanket statement like singles are harder to maneuver than twins you have to include every single single engine boat driver in your comparison including the pros.

Now if you want to say that single engine boats are harder to maneuver for most limited-experience recreational boaters with questionable motor skills and an inability to comprehend inertia and power and rudder manipulation than a twin, I'll go along with that, absolutely.
Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:51 PM   #79
Guru
 
City: Hotel, CA
Country: Fried
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 8,328
Quote:
Originally Posted by markpierce View Post
Single-engined boat operators should not apologize for using bow thrusters anymore than dual-engined boat operators using different speeds/directions with their engines during close maneuvers.
I've never understood this general attitude either. I've seen people on this and other forums act like using a thruster to maneuver in close quarters as being akin to cheating on their wife.
CPseudonym is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-27-2012, 07:53 PM   #80
Scraping Paint
 
City: -
Country: -
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 13,748
Quote:
Originally Posted by manyboats View Post

However things more complicated are almost always more difficult so I would think a twin screw boat w 2 throttles and 2 shift levers would be much more challenging for trawler skippers than the single lever versions. .
Eric--- I've run both and I can tell you that it's just a matter of getting used to it. Single-lever controls have their operational advantages as do double lever controls. But assuming one has the ability to focus on the objective and not get all wrapped up in the details, I can assure you that controling power and thrust with two levers is no more challenging than controlling them with one.

Now there are people--- maybe a lot of people--- who simply aren't any good at learning to use multple lever controls (on anything) intuitively. So for those folks single-lever controls are a godsend. Otherwise they'd be pulling and shoving the wrong things all the time and Big Noises would be emerging from the engine room.

It's like Microsoft vs Apple. I find Microsoft's fundmantal operatiing system philosophy to border on the ridiculous. It's unintuive and it's totally illogical. But I have to use it every day at work. Apple's operating system philosophy is the exact opposite of Microsoft's. I use it every day at home. And while I hate Micrsoft's whole approach to software, I am as at home using it as I am Apple's because I use both of them every day. Microsoft stuff really pisses me off if I think about it but I have no reason to think about it. I'm focused on what I'm trying to do--- write, calculate, edit, etc--- not how the computer is going about doing it.

Single lever-double lever is the same thing. I don't like single-lever controls. I like double lever controls. But I can operate either one without having to think about it because when I operate controls--- any controls, throttles, shifters, airplane yoke, rudder pedals, you name it---- I don't think about the control itself at all. I think about what I want to do---- add power, shift gears, bank left, pitch down--- and the movement of whatever control I have to use to accomplish it comes automatically.

I used to go back and forth between a stick airplane and a yoke airplane quite frequently. Same deal. It took no concentration to figure out which way to move the yoke or which way to move the stick. All I did was visualize what I wanted the control surface to do and the rest was automatic regardless of what kind of control it happened to be.

It takes doing it a fair amount to get to this point. I'm not saying you "get it" immediately. But it's been my experience that if one is focused on the the objective and not the means to the objective, it takes very little time and experience to master the means.

I suspect that if you started driving a twin-engine, dual-lever boat you'd have no problem learing how to manipulate the controls without thinking about them. Likewise if you started driving a twin engine single lever boat you'd have no problems there, either. And if you drove both and switched back and forth all the time, I suspect you would not be challenged by that, either. Like me you might like and prefer one over the other, but this would not impair your ability to use either one virtually intuitively. This is assuming you have an inherent grasp of how things work, which I believe you very much do.
__________________

Marin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0
Copyright 2006 - 2012