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Old 07-18-2018, 11:07 AM   #1
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Marlow?

Why would someone buy out the Mainship line and not build the boats? The Mainship trawlers and pilots are a very popular boat. Is Marlow going to continue to build any of them? The new Camano, built by Helmsman, is beautiful. They seem to be able to sell them in the $400K range. That re-design of the forward Vee Berth was brilliant.

Most Mainship owners that I have spoken with love the boat. Pretty good quality, layout is good, fuel economy is OK. I would make a few changes, given the opportunity. Nothing major. I would eliminate that door to the head in the stateroom, hard to open the door all the way.

Marlow should start building some boats! The economy is improving and there must be a market. From what I hear from people is the yacht sales business, nice boats priced right don't last too long.
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Old 07-18-2018, 01:22 PM   #2
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They still offer Pilots, four models from 31-37'. No idea why four models in that range. Seems to me it's two basic hulls. I don't know how many they're building, if any. I also don't know if they have any dealers. It's seemed that their interest was more in the Hunter line of sailboats where they show 11 models but then that's their 2015 brochure they're showing.
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Old 07-18-2018, 02:49 PM   #3
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Interesting thread. I love my MS 400, but after owning it for 5 years now there are things that could be improved, most of them electrical, but some access issues as well. A three foot longer, 6 inch wider version of my boat with a little bigger motors would be my dream boat. Not the galley down/aft cabin 430. A bigger version of the 400.


Anyway, a friend just bought a 61' Altima, he really wanted something in the 47 to 53 range, but after a year of looking he decided that there really just aren't many good boats on the market anymore in that size range (or even down to 40'). He says that the manufacturers just aren't making them any more because they can build a 60 for the same basic cost as a 50 and sell it for way more.


Not sure if that is true, but an interesting thought. Not the first person I've heard say that.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:02 PM   #4
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Interesting thread. I love my MS 400, but after owning it for 5 years now there are things that could be improved, most of them electrical, but some access issues as well. A three foot longer, 6 inch wider version of my boat with a little bigger motors would be my dream boat. Not the galley down/aft cabin 430. A bigger version of the 400.


Anyway, a friend just bought a 61' Altima, he really wanted something in the 47 to 53 range, but after a year of looking he decided that there really just aren't many good boats on the market anymore in that size range (or even down to 40'). He says that the manufacturers just aren't making them any more because they can build a 60 for the same basic cost as a 50 and sell it for way more.


Not sure if that is true, but an interesting thought. Not the first person I've heard say that.
It seems builders suffer from the same size creep, buyers do. Many have moved up in size and dropped their smaller boats over the years. Sometimes too sizes are added or restricted by something as simple as the sizes of their buildings and sheds.

There is a shortage in the 40-60' range, although a few European builders still there. Now, the same thing happens to those building above those ranges. Westport owned Pacific Mariner and once built from 65' to 130'. Now they build from 112'-164' only with larger coming. Sunseeker is big from 40-90' but now build to 131'. Riva built 30-90' but now builds to 161'. Even Nordhavn, built the company on 40-76' but now have a 120' and 98'. KK keeps adding larger, now going up to 70'. As you move up in size the sales dollar to labor dollar increases significantly.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:08 PM   #5
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I suspect that the profit margin is greater on the large boats so they donít want to bother with the small boats.
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Old 07-18-2018, 04:43 PM   #6
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Marlow couldn't possibly build a Mainship 400 much less a 34T and make money in that segment. Too much foo foo and some real quality improvements means they would have to charge $100K more than what Mainship would have charged. So maybe no one can make money in that segment.


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Old 07-18-2018, 05:47 PM   #7
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Marlow couldn't possibly build a Mainship 400 much less a 34T and make money in that segment. Too much foo foo and some real quality improvements means they would have to charge $100K more than what Mainship would have charged. So maybe no one can make money in that segment.


David
Why do you say Marlow can't build for what Mainship did?
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Old 07-18-2018, 06:26 PM   #8
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Why do you say Marlow can't build for what Mainship did?

Look at their new Pilot models. Lots of foo foo stuff- looks pretty to some, but isn't very utilitarian. All of which costs money. Mainship didn't do that.



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Old 07-18-2018, 08:03 PM   #9
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Look at their new Pilot models. Lots of foo foo stuff- looks pretty to some, but isn't very utilitarian. All of which costs money. Mainship didn't do that.



David

Agreed. It's strange that they bothered to buy Mainship, really, if they weren't going to make a boat along the same concept. Maybe, as was mentioned earlier, they just wanted Hunter and Lurhs.
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Old 07-18-2018, 10:13 PM   #10
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There seems a good balance of buyers and boat offerings in the size range being discussed. A few come to mind such as Back Cove, Sabre, Aspen, Helmsman, North Pacific, Sea Ray, Carver, AT, NT, Riviera and many more. Few though will build an expensive yacht on spec.

Then there is Ranger Tug, continuing to move upmarket.
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Old 07-19-2018, 05:55 AM   #11
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Agreed. It's strange that they bothered to buy Mainship, really, if they weren't going to make a boat along the same concept. Maybe, as was mentioned earlier, they just wanted Hunter and Lurhs.

I think Marlow only bought Hunter and Mainship. Dr. Trocki (the current Buddy Davis and Egg Harbor guy) bought Ovation and Silverton... and somebody else bought Luhrs.

Given Marlow's product line, I was more surprised they wanted Hunter... although that seemed to have been (at the time) maybe one of the more solvent Luhrs Group segments.

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Old 07-19-2018, 09:42 AM   #12
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I think Marlow only bought Hunter and Mainship. Dr. Trocki (the current Buddy Davis and Egg Harbor guy) bought Ovation and Silverton... and somebody else bought Luhrs.

Given Marlow's product line, I was more surprised they wanted Hunter... although that seemed to have been (at the time) maybe one of the more solvent Luhrs Group segments.

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Hunter was the most desirable. Mainship was more a throw in. None of them brought major money.
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:31 AM   #13
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Hunter was the most desirable. Mainship was more a throw in. None of them brought major money.

Agree. But ref Hunter, I'd still have expected another sailboat company to buy, not Marlow. Maybe a higher-end sailboat builder, who could benefit from building (workforce spread) and marketing a slightly lower-cost entry product.

Mainship could just as well have been an orphan... or maybe another of Dr. Trocki's brand trophies.

But I could see Marlow buying Mainship on purpose to create an entry line... without bothering with Hunter at all. In fact, maybe that "entry" think is what's driving Marlow's marketing/build/sales plan... such as it is. Or isn't.

Just thinking out loud...

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Old 07-19-2018, 12:07 PM   #14
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Marlow's marketing/build/sales plan... such as it is. Or isn't.

Just thinking out loud...

-Chris
Yes, I sort of have missed Marlow's marketing/build/sales plan. Maybe it's top secret. I think there was an opportunity with Mainship but it probably required more capital than was available.
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Old 07-19-2018, 03:36 PM   #15
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I think there was an opportunity with Mainship but it probably required more capital than was available.

Yeah, I think a new version of Mainship could be very viable, carrying on with their original "value for money" approach to building, and given useful placement against the competition. Not apparent that Marlow thinks that.

Yep, not unlikely a capital issue... either not enough available, or not enough interest? commitment? to open somebody's wallet sufficiently...

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Old 07-19-2018, 05:46 PM   #16
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I often wonder why Marlow bought MS & Hunter but I don't thonk anyone what (maybe how little) they actually paid for them.

If no one else was bidding I'd guess they got everything for a song.
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Old 07-19-2018, 06:51 PM   #17
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It has always struck me as a paradox in brands between Marlow and Mainship. My conclusion is that they bought the brand/company where it meant they got molds at a cheap price matching want they wanted to produce eg the pilot line. There is a dearth of choice of modern trawlers where the common offering in the 40 to 60 range is some high powered flashy looking, and imho unattractive, floating fast condo. Traditional builders such as defever album disappeared but appear to be making a come back. When Marlow purchased Mainship I was quite interested to see what they would do with the liine, anticipating things like a reincarnated MS 40 but quickly realized with the first pilot launched this was not to be the case.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:02 PM   #18
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I also love my MS400 but given the current offerings in the market can't see any upgrade path. I'd like something sub-50 foot... a little bigger and a little faster than what I have. Anything that catches my eye is in the million dollar range. The space previously filled by mainship is completely empty. Grandbanks has gone the other way - bigger and even more expensive than before. Swift trawler has a nice look, but the interiors, imho, are terrible compared to the Mainship layout. What else is there? I'd love to hear from MS400 owners what they think of as their "next" boat. I've come up pretty empty. Completely different style, but the new Tiara flybridge boats are nice, but priced in the stratosphere. I rafted up with a Prestige 50 the other day and it was pretty nice and more affordable than most. I pretty much feel like I've been priced out of the market moving forward. Thankfully I love my boat! I did contact Marlow several times over the last couple of years. Initially I was told that they would be building something in the 45 flybridge range but that was just someone telling me what I wanted to hear.
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Old 07-23-2018, 02:17 PM   #19
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I also love my MS400 but given the current offerings in the market can't see any upgrade path. I'd like something sub-50 foot... a little bigger and a little faster than what I have. Anything that catches my eye is in the million dollar range. The space previously filled by mainship is completely empty. Grandbanks has gone the other way - bigger and even more expensive than before. Swift trawler has a nice look, but the interiors, imho, are terrible compared to the Mainship layout. What else is there? I'd love to hear from MS400 owners what they think of as their "next" boat. I've come up pretty empty. Completely different style, but the new Tiara flybridge boats are nice, but priced in the stratosphere. I rafted up with a Prestige 50 the other day and it was pretty nice and more affordable than most. I pretty much feel like I've been priced out of the market moving forward. Thankfully I love my boat! I did contact Marlow several times over the last couple of years. Initially I was told that they would be building something in the 45 flybridge range but that was just someone telling me what I wanted to hear.
You're right on the upgrade path. Now, you even have Sea Ray discontinuing their 40'+ boats. Meridian at one time might have been a logical upgrade but they're gone. Carver does offer a 52'. Cruisers has several models from 50-54'. Sabre has 48'. You mentioned Tiara.

Most of the European builders have something in the range you're talking about. Princess and Sunseeker have models. The years of 2008 to 2011 with few boats being sold have made the used market very limited.

I can think of your question in another way. "What do the people who would have bought Grand Banks do today?
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Old 07-23-2018, 06:39 PM   #20
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maybe Marlow will sell the Mainship molds to a company wanting to re-renter that market. As you all say, there is nothing to compare with the Mainship trawlers or pilots.

My wife and I absolutely love our 2007 pilot 34.
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