Mainship 400 Shower Sump Overflowing?

[jefndeb]

Hello,

I thought we had a leak in the old/short sanitation hose running from the holding tank to the macerator pump. That fwd bilge area would always have some fluid in there almost all the time. It didn't really smell like holding tank water but we try to keep that tank empty/flushed, but it did look ugly.

Anyway, i decided since that short hose from the tank to the macerator was probably original and it looked like it might be leaking being there was small amounts of liquid under it, I would replace it.....HA

So long story short, I replaced the short hose and then cleaned and rinsed the area very thoroughly, I also opened the sump cover and cleaned and rinsed it as well while in that area. To help the bilge area to dry faster, I set a small fan in the area.

All was well with a dry bilge now.

Well after all that messing with all that grossness, I took a hot shower and after a few beers I looked in there again and yes, it was full of fluid again...

Ahhh, the shower sump is leaking.?....I ran the water hose to the sump and filled it and it seems the float switch only energizes the pump after about its 3/4 full, and its doesn't seem to pump water out all that fast...

I am thinking that with the float switch not activating the pump until its almost full and the fact that it pumps the fluid out kinda slow, its overflowing into the fwd bilge area?

Can the float switch on this Rule 800 GPH pump be adjusted?
Nothing in the manual that I can see.

Maybe it needs to be replaced.

Anybody else seen this?

 

[Solly]

You can try taking the pump apart and see if it's clogged. I think the blue part on the bottom twists off. No restrictions in the lines anywhere ?? Run water to it while looking at it. See whats up.
My sump will pump out faster than the water fills it. You can hear the pump cycle as you shower. It doesn't run continuously.

 

[kchace]

Run the shower or have somebody pour a 5 gallon bucket of water into the shower while you watch the sump.


Ken

 

[localboy]

Ours over-flowed once on a trip. After messing with it, I realized the float switch had gone bad. Replaced it and voila.

 

[Xsbank]

Boat builders still think that shower sump thing is a good idea...throw the entire thing in the garbage and put in a diaphragm type pump inline with the discharge hose, energized by a switch you turn on when you start to shower and off when the water is gone. Put a screen over the shower drain to collect hair etc. As this is a boat, not a house, sometimes the solutions have a small difference in operation that makes the system more reliable. This is one of them.

The other solution is to determine where the waterline is, maybe you don’t need a pump, like your sink.

 

[Dougcole]

I had the exact same problem on my 400. In my case, and I'm guessing maybe in yours as well, it was not the float switch, it was a problem with the pump air locking. The outflow run of the hose from the sump pump has a downward dip in it somewhere which causes it to airlock.


Take the lid off of the sump, then turn on the shower. Watch the water flow into the sump. If the pump turns on as the water rises it is not the float switch. If the pump seems to be running but not pumping out the water it is air locked.


You can drill a small hole in the outlet hose an inch or so downstream from the pump but still inside the sump box. That sort of worked for me for a little while but for some reason it eventually stopped working. Additionally, it would never really empty the sump box as some of the water flowed out of the hole back into the sump. Not really a great solution.


I ended up going with a solution similar to what Xsbank suggested by installing a Whale Gulper grey IC pump and sensor. Here is a link: https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product.aspx?Category_ID=10020&Product_ID=10040&FriendlyID=Grey-IC


The good news? It works great, no more leaks at all, and the darn thing will pass a tube sock through it, so no more sump to clean out either.


The bad news? It's on the expensive side and while installation is not super hard, it's a little tricky. There is not a lot of room in the area under the deck for a downhill run from the sensor to the pump, so you really have to max out the space you have. Using elbows and adapters to size the hose up or down is the only way to do it. You can use the wiring from the old sump pump, so no worries there.


You can't just put a pump on a switch in there because the condensate hoses from both air conditioners flow into that sump as well, and they put out a surprising amount of water in a humid area like Savannah. If the pump was off the trays under the compressors would overflow.



I put the two condensate hoses onto a T and then ran them to one inlet of the sensor. The shower drain hose runs to the other inlet. The outlet from the sensor goes to the pump.



Also, the pump is much louder than the old rule pump. It makes a gulping sound (go figure). No big deal when showering, but it is loud when it comes on when you are sleeping at night with the AC running. I'm used to it now but it was bothersome at first. Oddly, plugging the shower drain and the head floor drain quiet it down a lot.


Let me know if you have questions. I can send you some pics.

 

[OldDan1943]

I ended up going with a solution similar to what Xsbank suggested by installing a Whale Gulper grey IC pump and sensor. Here is a link: https://www.whalepumps.com/marine/product.aspx?Category_ID=10020&Product_ID=10040&FriendlyID=Grey-IC

Let me know if you have questions. I can send you some pics.

One question, how does the whale gulper handle 3 foot long asian hair and soap scum?

 

[Larry M]

There’s a small check valve in the white tubing to the left of the pump inside the sump to keep water that’s the line from flowing back into the sump. The check valve inserts don’t last very long. I took ours out and added an external check valve.

Pull the pump head by squeezing the two blue tabs on the side of the pump and lift up. The blue base is screwed down. Turn it upside down and see if the is hair wrapped around the impeller. If so, use a tooth pick to remove the hair and reassemble.

When it’s all put together you may have to burp the pump because of an air lock. Disconnect the hose outside the sump with water in the sump. Turn on the pump and reassemble.

 

[Dougcole]

One question, how does the whale gulper handle 3 foot long asian hair and soap scum?

LOL. Not really sure, I'm a baldy.

Seriously though, my wife and two sons have lots of hair, and shed at a rate only slightly less than that of our 90lb lab/pit mix. It does great with it. I think the sensor will clog before the pump does.

Whale has a video on their site of a gulper passing all kinds of crazy stuff.

 

[rgano]

The PO's photo shows a missing plastic strainer/filter as well as the clear plastic sump cover with its gasket. No wonder it is overflowing. If the sump was properly sealed, it would not overflow but rather you would see water gathering at your feet - that is until you address the reason for slow pumping.

Having more experience with this type sump than I care to recall, I too replaced the silly centrifugal pump with a Whale Gulper diaphragm pump. Because of the already mentioned need for automatic operation to remove ac condensate, I left the flopper switch in the sump and mounted the Gulper to the top of the sump cover with a short piece of hose extending down into the bottom of the sump through a sealed hole.

For a shower-only sump on another boat, I removed the sump in favor of just the pump with a switch on the bulkhead.

The Gulper could care less about hair and other stuff which may get to it.

 

[Dougcole]

The PO's photo shows a missing plastic strainer/filter as well as the clear plastic sump cover with its gasket. No wonder it is overflowing. If the sump was properly sealed, it would not overflow but rather you would see water gathering at your feet - that is until you address the reason for slow pumping.

Having more experience with this type sump than I care to recall, I too replaced the silly centrifugal pump with a Whale Gulper diaphragm pump. Because of the already mentioned need for automatic operation to remove ac condensate, I left the flopper switch in the sump and mounted the Gulper to the top of the sump cover with a short piece of hose extending down into the bottom of the sump through a sealed hole.

For a shower-only sump on another boat, I removed the sump in favor of just the pump with a switch on the bulkhead.

The Gulper could care less about hair and other stuff which may get to it.

That's a good idea, and I considered doing something similar. The space is tight for a sump and a gulper though, and my sump was leaking through the top when it would fill up, so I went with the sensor.

Your way might work better though.

 

[jefndeb]

I removed the cover only to access the pump area, it normally is installed silly ...

 

[Shrew]

The PO's photo shows a missing plastic strainer/filter as well as the clear plastic sump cover with its gasket.

I removed the cover only to access the pump area, it normally is installed silly ...

Just to make sure we're all on the same page...

@jefndeb...are you referring to the cover? Or the cover gasket?? As rgano is mentioning, that cover should have a rectangular gasket to seal the lip and sumpbox. I also don't see that gasket in the picture (maybe it is simply out of frame).

 

[Larry M]

The picture the OP posted is for model#: 98A, no gasket on the lid.

 

[Shrew]

If this model isn't supposed to have a gasket, then I would fill the sump box (with the box closed, and actively watch for leaks.

 

[jefndeb]

I dont think the cover/lid has a gasket, I will look again next weekend.

I have this Attwood Sump that is new, but it says its 500 GPH, the Rule says its 800...might just install this one...but first I think I will follow the suggestions here and simply check for blockages in the line as well as the lower section of the pump...

Till next weekend!!!

 

[OldDan1943]

In my limited experience with shower sump boxes is, the cover is designed to keep things out, ie tools, screws, nuts etc.
Basically, we should not mind the box overflowing instead of pressure building up inside the box if the pump or float switch fails. Yes, it will be messy but the bilge pump will take of the overflow.
In my case, the bilge in this area is small.

 

[rgano]

In my limited experience with shower sump boxes is, the cover is designed to keep things out, ie tools, screws, nuts etc.
Basically, we should not mind the box overflowing instead of pressure building up inside the box if the pump or float switch fails. Yes, it will be messy but the bilge pump will take of the overflow.
In my case, the bilge in this area is small.

I suppose if you don't mind not knowing the sump is not working, letting one overflow is ok. If it is for a shower, standby for that awful rotten soap smell to permeate your boat from soapy water stagnating in your bilge. If it is from an ac, well, the condensate pan can fill up, and, as happened in my case when the water there was high for a long time, the accumulator bottle rots ruining the ac unit. Granted, my ac problem was from a factory install which kinked the drain line, the same can happen from a failed sump pump. It is wise to monitor the sump's operation if it is the means for draining the ac pan. If you live aboard or are cruising with a SEALED combined shower and ac sump like mine, you will soon know if the sump is not working by rising water in the shower. I have learned to pay close visual attention to the ac pan level.

 

[Cartouche]

Hello,

I thought we had a leak in the old/short sanitation hose running from the holding tank to the macerator pump. That fwd bilge area would always have some fluid in there almost all the time. It didn't really smell like holding tank water but we try to keep that tank empty/flushed, but it did look ugly.

Anyway, i decided since that short hose from the tank to the macerator was probably original and it looked like it might be leaking being there was small amounts of liquid under it, I would replace it.....HA

So long story short, I replaced the short hose and then cleaned and rinsed the area very thoroughly, I also opened the sump cover and cleaned and rinsed it as well while in that area. To help the bilge area to dry faster, I set a small fan in the area.

All was well with a dry bilge now.

Well after all that messing with all that grossness, I took a hot shower and after a few beers I looked in there again and yes, it was full of fluid again...

Ahhh, the shower sump is leaking.?....I ran the water hose to the sump and filled it and it seems the float switch only energizes the pump after about its 3/4 full, and its doesn't seem to pump water out all that fast...

I am thinking that with the float switch not activating the pump until its almost full and the fact that it pumps the fluid out kinda slow, its overflowing into the fwd bilge area?

Can the float switch on this Rule 800 GPH pump be adjusted?
Nothing in the manual that I can see.

Maybe it needs to be replaced.

Anybody else seen this?

Had to change the pump on our 390, the pump should be an 1100 GPH I would replace your 800 There is a direct replacement https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01CPKXE2S/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_image_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

[jimL]

I removed the sump check valve and have not had any issues. When leaving the boat for a while - to reduce the probability of smells, I run fresh water down the drain - enough so the sump rinses, and then I run Potty Cleans to the sump to clear up orders. This is something Peggy recommends.

Hope this helps - Jim

 

[jefndeb]

Yes, this forum is the best!!!, it was that dang rubber check valve, it was restricting outflow so bad the box was overflowing....removed and all is well....thanks to all who helped..
Jeff

 

[jimdavi]

Another vote for whale gulper. Works well and has not clogged.

 

[gwbullis]

If the float switch isn't engaging early enough - pumping water out with minimal depth - I zip tied a wine cork to the float itself to start the pumping earlier (less water). Works well on my '02 Mainship 390.