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Old 07-18-2018, 02:17 PM   #1
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Hose replacement?

I have been trying to purge my (new to me) 1998 350 MS of some really bad boat smells. Hereís what I have done so far: Rebuilt the clogged shower drain sump, re-plumbed/re-wired and cleaned all three of the bilge pumps and areas which are now dry. Stripped all curtains/bedding/mattresses and anything porous that could removed. Biggest improvement was to re-route the salon AC condensate drain from the bilge to a thru hull over board. Have sprayed more chemicals, vinegar, and bleach to clean a fleet of boats. Also fixed a bilge ventilation blower that was not working. I even bought the Bible of boat smells from the Head Mistress, which was a big help.

Next step is to replace all 4 sanitation hoses from head, vent, pump out and discharge outlet. All hoses seem original (20 yrs old) and are very sticky.

My problem is the head to tank hose is routed behind the bathroom sink and shower and not assessable. I was able to get a camara up there and can see the hose is ty-wrapped with other hoses and wires.
Any suggestions how to remove and replace that hose. My sawzall is ready if that what it takes but not sure what to cut. Smelly and Frustrated in Florida.
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Old 07-18-2018, 03:29 PM   #2
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My problem is the head to tank hose is routed behind the bathroom sink and shower and not assessable. I was able to get a camara up there and can see the hose is ty-wrapped with other hoses and wires.

Oh yikes...I HATE it when boat builders do that! At least it's not neatly C-clamped to the hull every few feet as it was on a 38 Bayliner MY...hoses that ran all the way from the forward berth to the cockpit. We had to to open up one whole side of the boat get 'em out.

Is there any tool with a cutting edge on a long handle you can get to the tie wrap (hopefully only one)? If not you may have to cut out an access panel to get to it.
Not the worst thing 'cuz if you can make a nice clean cut you can put it back and hold it in place with some nice trim and velcro.

Once you get the hose loose, it may (fingers crossed) be possible to connect the new hose to the old using a male-male connector (glue the hoses onto it...duct tape won't hold and clamps will get hung up) and pull the new hose through as you pull the old hose out.

I'm available offer any help you need to get everything sorted out, so feel free to give me a PM shout if you need me.

--Peggie
"If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't completely understand it yourself." --Albert Einstein
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Old 07-19-2018, 08:45 AM   #3
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Thanks Peggy. I have one compartment under the sink that needs opening up but that involves removing all the plumbing. Possible project for this weekend.

While I have you, what can you add about the 20 year old hoses with regards to the stickyness and contributing to the smell? I tried using a wet towel to see if they smell but my nose becomes overwhelmed with odors when I am down in the compartment area of the holding tank.

Last question (maybe), while I have everything pulled apart, should I replace the 37 gallon plastic(?) holding tank? It looks fine and no leaks that I can see. I need to open up a large section in the back of the second state room to get to the tank drain hoses. Removing the tank is a major DIY project and if it is working fine, no odors, then I would rather leave it alone.

Thanks for all your comments and suggestions and in case nobody has mentioned it to you, great book!
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Old 07-19-2018, 09:46 AM   #4
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It doesn't matter whether they stink or not, 20 yr old hoses are at least 10 years overdue for replacement.

As for the tank, if you don't see any signs of leaks around fittings and/or bulging and flexing that can result in leaks, it should not be necessary to replace it. The hoses are the likely source of the overwhelming odor.

And there will be STRONG residual odor left on every surface, nook and cranny those hoses have occupied. So after you get the old hoses out, you'll want to thoroughly clean every area the hoses have even passed through--and the outside of the tank too--with detergent and water...NO bleach! After everything is at least 90% dry, treat every surface, nook and cranny in every area with PureAyre (instructions are in my book).

New hoses: I'd go with Raritan SanFlex RaritanSaniFlex hose 'cuz it's so flexible it can be bent like a hairpin without kinking. Defender has it for <$10/ft.

If you'll have access to the top of the tank, now would also be a good time to "upgrade" the vent line to 1" or even 1.5"...easy to do, thanks to a li'l gadget called the Uniseal UNISEAL . That would also require replacing the vent thru-hull, but worth the effort.

Glad you're finding my book useful! Feel free to give me shout if you still have questions or issues to discuss in more detail than is practical in a forum.

--Peggie
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Old 07-19-2018, 11:37 AM   #5
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It doesn't matter whether they stink or not, 20 yr old hoses are at least 10 years overdue for replacement.

Peggie, somewhere around here and elsewhere, I've read your statement that Trident (101/102, I think?) and the Saniflex hoses haven't ever (yet?) had any reported cases of permeation. Can you speak to that briefly, in light of your above comment about 20 year old hoses?

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Old 07-19-2018, 12:15 PM   #6
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Everything has a lifespan...and the average working life of ANY hose--sanitation, fuel, exhaust, fresh water--is about 10 years. 'Cuz rubber and plastic dries out over time, becoming hard (which you've said your 20 yr old hoses are), which also makes 'em brittle and prone to cracking and splitting. It's entirely possible, though not likely, that if your hoses are Trident 101 (they'd be black with a green stripe if they are and would have been relatively new on the market...Trident 102 white didn't exist 20 years ago), they may not be the source of your odor, that any odor on the outside of 'em may have attached itself from another source (sewage spill, leaking macerator pump or who knows what). You've also noted that the surface is sticky...a major indication that they've deteriorated a lot.

Otoh, if they're the #148 white flexible PVC that was the most common sanitation hose 20 years ago (and was the first hose I used on my last boat when I replaced the sanitation system as the first step in its total renovation...it permeated in less than 90 days!), it doesn't matter what brand they are...they permeated years ago.


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Old 07-19-2018, 12:35 PM   #7
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My problem is the head to tank hose is routed behind the bathroom sink and shower and not assessable. I was able to get a camara up there and can see the hose is ty-wrapped with other hoses and wires.
Any suggestions how to remove and replace that hose. My sawzall is ready if that what it takes but not sure what to cut. Smelly and Frustrated in Florida.
Is it a one piece fibreglass sink unit that contain the hoses?

Perhaps pick a a marine glove box to suit the decor. Then just cut a hole under the sink to suit the size. Use the hole to access your hose; then install the glove box and you have extra storage and permanent access for future issues.
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Old 08-12-2018, 04:48 PM   #8
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So I thought I would follow up on the progress with this smelly project. First thanks to all for your suggestions and help, and to Peggy for her expertise and direction. I followed it almost to the letter. So here is a summary of highlites and low lites:

Replaced all 4 sanitation hoses. I used 1” and 1 1/2” Trident Sani-Shield hoses which has a 10 year “warranty”. These hoses are slightly larger then the original which caused some issues with clearances. All hoses now drain downhill into the tank for the most part.

I did have to cut 2 - 6” access holes into the boat, one to replace the outside thruhull vent, the other to get to a tie wrap behind the head. Speaking of tie wraps, I used a handy 4’ pruning sheer, the kind to reach small branches, cut right thru them behind the shower and fuel tank.

As Peggy suggested, I increased the vent from 5/8 to 1”. I also created a new tank fitting for the head hose using a Uniseal. (was nervous about drilling into tank but all went well, didn’t even drop the cut out into the tank) The new fitting was done to shorten and straighten the head hose run. Previously it had several dips and valleys in it. The old 1” fitting was then used for the new 1” vent hose.

Now all sanitation hoses, bilge hoses, and electrical bundles, are clamped and supported separately which will make future replacement easy.

Still some cleaning and deodorizing (pure-aire) to do, but at least the smell is now very tolerable. Will be much better once we can open up the boat and get fresh dry air thru it. Not possible with Florida weather right now.

Took lots of before and after photos and if anyone has any questions feel free to reach out to me. Now on to the next project: carpet, electronics, fuel, generator, windless, bow thruster? So many to do and so little time (and $$$$) to do them.
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Old 08-13-2018, 05:54 AM   #9
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Djoub, I did the same thing with the hoses. I will tell you that the smell takes a long time to go away. It gets into the head liner. We had to replace all the bedding and rip up the carpeting.
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Old 08-13-2018, 09:24 PM   #10
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After reading several posts and doing the hot towel test, I re-read Peggy's publication and now we use CP Potties every time we leave the boat for a few days, and we have no odor. The culprit was the aft head sink which stunk. CP Potties, used weekly takes care of it. We are not to the point of replacing holding tank hoses yet, but will be there in time.

Thanks Peggy.

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Old 08-13-2018, 09:42 PM   #11
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Jgutten, Yes, all bedding, curtains, and pretty much anything organic that could be removed was removed and nothing has gone back on till we finish with a top to bottom cleaning. The items removed do freshen up after cleaning and airing out. We have replaced the mattresses with charcoal infused memory foam which I’m not really sure if that is just a gimmick or will help with future odors.

Carpet and sofa are going to be replaced next but we haven’t decided with what. Looking forward when we can settle into the boat and enjoy it.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:30 PM   #12
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When we bought our 2003 390 we also had smells, especially when lifting the access panel above the steering wheel. It would make your eyes water. After giving every hose I could reach the wet towel test I decided to remove the vent line filter and throw it away. All of the smell went with the filter. If you have one, toss it.
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Old 08-15-2018, 08:33 PM   #13
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Speaking of the sofa, we looked all over, on line and at boat shows to see what was available to fit through the door. We decided to have the old one reupholstered. It was half the price of getting one custom made
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Old 08-16-2018, 06:32 AM   #14
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Johnma, there was no filter on my vent hose but the vent thruhull may have been partial clogged. Either way, it’s all new now and hopefully last another 20 years. As Peggy says, filters are just band-aids.

Thanks for the sofa suggestion. We have been looking online (Amazon) at “apartment size” sofas where the back actually bolts onto the frame after you get it thru the door. Worst case, if we have to we can remove both slider doors to get it thru.
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Old 08-16-2018, 07:40 AM   #15
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Thanks for the sofa suggestion. We have been looking online (Amazon) at ďapartment sizeĒ sofas where the back actually bolts onto the frame after you get it thru the door. Worst case, if we have to we can remove both slider doors to get it thru.
We ended up going to Ikea. They had an L-shaped sofa that fit the available space so snugly and perfectly, it looked like it was custom made. One side lifted for storage and the other side pulled out to make a queen bed. It came in three boxes so the pieces were easy to fit through the door. Also turned out to be way, way less expensive than the marine and RV furniture we looked at. We highly recommend it.
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Old 08-16-2018, 11:15 AM   #16
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Regarding sofa's and couches, try Home Reserve located in Indiana. Lots of styles and sizes to choose from and they come in boxes that fit through small doors. Very easy to assemble.
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